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Thread: Falklands Harrier Gun Camera Footage

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    Falklands Harrier Gun Camera Footage

    Can anyone point out any links to Harrier/Sea Harrier gun camera footage from the Falklands. I have tried the usual internet links.

    Would be especially interested in the stike footage on Stanley Airfield, Pebble Island and Goose Green and any of the air-to-air engagmenets. I know the films exist as the great books on the subject from Dave Morgan and Jerry Pook comment on reviewing them post mission and indicate they provided some interesting footage. Thank you.

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    Shortly after the end of the conflict I seem to remember reading that for some reason none of the gun cameras worked in the Sea Harrier / Harrier. I think the comment was made during a discussion of the reliability of these aircraft.

    It always sounded a bit suspect.....and I’m sure at the time there was good reason to keep the footage secret.
    WA$.

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    I don't know what stage the Harriers were in when they were at RAF Stanley. But what I do know is that they were 'parked' on the other side of the Stanley runway from the ATC Tower. On night-shifts on the ground floor of the tower one could see the Harriers across the airfield. They were "fired up" electrically/electronically all night. One could see the anti-collision beacons flashing away. What else was 'fired up' (INAS, etc, etc) I do not know - but it seemed slightly odd!! We need a Harrier expert to tell us all!!!!
    Rgds
    Resmoroh

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    I think one parked GR3 fired a Sidewinder across Stanley airfield post-war!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 2nd August 2008 at 18:01. Reason: Tactless Icon Removed
    WA$.

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    Creaking Door,
    Absolutely correct! Due to pilot unfamiliarity with 'switch positions' on that particular Mark of a/c.
    These things happen (but shouldn't). The most appalling aspect of that accident was that the Sidewinder was fired into a Mortar Platoon of the Welsh Guards (who were snow clearing) - and who had previously been decimated during the landing/air-attack at Bluff Cove.
    We didn't win the Falklands - they lost it (they made bigger and better military decision errors (i.e. ****-ups) than we did - and we made a lot!!).
    Rgds
    Resmoroh

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    Possibly understandable since the Sidewinder fit was non-standard on GR3.

    I’d forgotten the serious consequences of this incident; I’m fairly sure nobody was killed but there may have been some injured.
    WA$.

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    [QUOTE=Resmoroh;1280088]Creaking Door

    We didn't win the Falklands - they lost it (they made bigger and better military decision errors (i.e. ****-ups) than we did - and we made a lot!!).

    I'm sure the families of those killed, on both sides, would be thrilled to read THAT comment.......

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    Back on topic.

    Yes there is footage from the HUD Cameras of both the FRS1 and GR3 in the Falklands war kicking about, some of it from a GR3 attack on Stanley Airfield is in Jerry Pook's Book about GR3 Ops during the war. I don't know what system was used at the time, but if it was video,and not wet film, there is a good chance that after a while the tape was wiped and reused. Video tape wasn't cheap back in those days. One piece of footage that was shown on TV just before the war ended, was taken from the Sea Wolf TV Tracker from one of the Type 22's (HMS Brillant if memory serves). Some of the footage given to the media is well known, Ardent on fire and sinking, two A-4's dropping bombs while being tracked (Sea Wolf didn't engage). Two pieces of the orignal footage released however show a Dagger being hit by a Sea Wolf from the rear (aircraft pitches up on fire) which has been shown on the odd occasion, and the second, shows the Sea Wolf is tracking a Sea Harrier. Flash under the SHAR's wing and the tracker then follows a Sidewinder from the SHAR, all the way to an A-4, which explodes when the 9L hit it. Only seen that bit of footage once on the national news back in mid 82.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Possibly understandable since the Sidewinder fit was non-standard on GR3.

    I’d forgotten the serious consequences of this incident; I’m fairly sure nobody was killed but there may have been some injured.
    Somebody I knew who had worked on Harrier GR3 in 82, told me how they did the Sidewinder fit. It was a quickly designed bodge job, lacking in some of the safety features found on other aircraft fitted with Sidewinder (example I was given, was that most AD aircraft have a micro switch on the undercarriage that stop's weapons from being fired if there is weight on the wheels). On the GR3 fit, the firing command cable came out of the stick, went to the arming panel (maybe though the Master Arm, mayby not, I can't remember), and then the firing lines came straight of the arming panel and on to the missile rails on the outer pylons. Seakers on the missiles were locked forward until launch, and the tone was fed to the unit with then fed the tone to the helmet comms system. That was how simple the fit was.
    TWIN RAMJET POWERED MONOPLANE FIXER 1985 - 1989

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    Somebody I knew who had worked on Harrier GR3 in 82, told me how they did the Sidewinder fit. It was a quickly designed bodge job, lacking in some of the safety features found on other aircraft fitted with Sidewinder (example I was given, was that most AD aircraft have a micro switch on the undercarriage that stop's weapons from being fired if there is weight on the wheels). On the GR3 fit, the firing command cable came out of the stick, went to the arming panel (maybe though the Master Arm, mayby not, I can't remember), and then the firing lines came straight of the arming panel and on to the missile rails on the outer pylons. Seakers on the missiles were locked forward until launch, and the tone was fed to the unit with then fed the tone to the helmet comms system. That was how simple the fit was.

    They did a lot of "Bodging" in the RAF leading up to Falklands, paticuarly with the the Black Buck operation's. Let's just say they used a lot of araldite on the victors. They were short of time, they were working non stop at Waddington and Marham. They had to try and bodge getting the VC10's inertial guidance system on two Vulcan's ,also try to get Dash 10 pod's from Buccaneer's under the vulcan's wing's by making pylons for it, the list goes on and on. They had to take the risk.
    The Idiot of the Forum who mistook a pigeon for a flying saucer.

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    They did a lot of "Bodging" in the RAF leading up to Falklands, paticuarly with the the Black Buck operation's. Let's just say they used a lot of araldite on the victors. They were short of time, they were working non stop at Waddington and Marham. They had to try and bodge getting the VC10's inertial guidance system on two Vulcan's ,also try to get Dash 10 pod's from Buccaneer's under the vulcan's wing's by making pylons for it, the list goes on and on. They had to take the risk.
    __________________
    Try Ingenuity instead of Bodging, your source apart from Vulcan 607 is? There are those here who were involved in the conflict - what were you doing at the time of the Falklands?
    Departed until sense is talked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
    Try Ingenuity instead of Bodging, your source apart from Vulcan 607 is? There are those here who were involved in the conflict - what were you doing at the time of the Falklands?
    Exactly what I was thinking - this is how folklore works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
    ...what were you doing at the time of the Falklands?
    Give the guy a break.....he was probably waiting for his mum to meet his dad!
    WA$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Give the guy a break.....he was probably waiting for his mum to meet his dad!
    As we can assume Bigvern might have been born in 1966 I think that is unlikely.

    Moggy

    Can we get this back on topic please rather than squabbling about a word?
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

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    I remember sitting in a field overlooking Plymouth Sound while some Harrier pilot made repeated landing/take-offs on the rear cargo door of the Atlantic Conveyor...I seem to recall the door being a bit shorter than the Harrier so it landed with the nose partly inside the ship & took off by going up/backwards for a while...
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
    Try Ingenuity instead of Bodging, your source apart from Vulcan 607 is? There are those here who were involved in the conflict - what were you doing at the time of the Falklands?
    Yes, Ingenuity is a better word, i got some infomation off a lady, her brother worked on the Victor's at Marham and she said how they had to go round military scrap yards looking for parts for them and how he was working non stop.

    What was i doing in the Falklands conflict, Nothing, i wasn't born. That's not my fault. I have deepest respect for all Falklands conflict veterans on both sides. At least i know what went on, some kids my age don't know what it was. Like at School i was reading Forgotten voices of the Falklands, and some one said "What was the Falklands War?". I'll leave it there.

    C-TT-18
    The Idiot of the Forum who mistook a pigeon for a flying saucer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggy C View Post
    As we can assume Bigvern might have been born in 1966 I think that is unlikely.
    Glad you mentioned BIGVERN’s use of the word ‘bodge’ but Chris G was actually quoting Canberra-TT18 who certainly wasn’t born in 1966.....anyway back to the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
    I remember sitting in a field overlooking Plymouth Sound while some Harrier pilot made repeated landing/take-offs on the rear cargo door of the Atlantic Conveyor...I seem to recall the door being a bit shorter than the Harrier so it landed with the nose partly inside the ship & took off by going up/backwards for a while...
    That’s interesting; I’ve never heard anything about that before. Presumably the plan was to transport the GR3/FRS1 south inside and under cover (the GR3 apparently lacked some of the saltwater resistant features of the FRS1).

    From the sounds of it the take-off would require lots of skill (and a dead-flat-calm).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Glad you mentioned BIGVERN’s use of the word ‘bodge’ but Chris G was actually quoting Canberra-TT18
    Who in turn pulled the word from Bigvern's post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    ...orignal footage released however show a Dagger being hit by a Sea Wolf from the rear (aircraft pitches up on fire) which has been shown on the odd occasion...
    I know this piece of footage well and agree with your description except that I’ve always assumed that the Dagger was struck in the rear as opposed to from the rear?

    One bit of often shown Falklands footage is of ‘something’ moving rapidly from left-to-right in the distant sky over (presumably) San Carlos. After perhaps five seconds the object explodes with a short sharp bang, there is no ‘fireball’ but four ‘glowing’ pieces are seen to fall.

    Although it is often presented as an exploding aircraft I’ve always thought it was a Sea Cat missile exploding at the end of its run. Anybody?
    WA$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Glad you mentioned BIGVERN’s use of the word ‘bodge’ but Chris G was actually quoting Canberra-TT18 who certainly wasn’t born in 1966.....anyway back to the topic. .
    Well my source, who was involved in the fitting of the winders to the GR3 considered the fit a bit gash (Seeing that fitting winders to GR type Harriers had already been done with the AV-8A a decade earlier). Plus the term Bodge, in RAF slang means a non standard quick fix (Hence the black duck type tape we use is normally known as 'Bodge Tape'). As for myself, 16 on the day the war finished, but I knew where the Falkland and South Georgia were long before the Scrap dealer incident kicked off in mid March of 82, unlike a lot of the people who though they were of the coast of Scotland. On the other hand, worked with a lot of people who were there since joining up the following year (and currently work with an army guy who got off a landing craft at San Carlos on 21st May and saw all of the action within the bay itself until the breakout). I've actually been there (more than once!!!) for 4 times the length of the whole war, including the Scrap metal incident. Seen a few wrecks (on the ground, and in the air from both Helicopters and a C-130) and even stood on the wing of a Dagger (C-403), shot down over West Falkland by Lt Steve Thomas on 21st May (got a turbine blade from the engine kicking around in the loft somewhere).

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    That’s interesting; I’ve never heard anything about that before. Presumably the plan was to transport the GR3/FRS1 south inside and under cover (the GR3 apparently lacked some of the saltwater resistant features of the FRS1).


    From the sounds of it the take-off would require lots of skill (and a dead-flat-calm).
    Sounds like a dodgey plan that got shelved before the ship departed. Flying a Harrier like that is something you see in ‘True Lies’, and not in real life. Harriers flew on to the forward pad (which wasn't that easy to get on and off, from comments which have been made in a number of publication since the war (To the front of the pad was a forecastle weather shield, and a large mast). If you remember the photo of the SHAR armed on the pad when the ship was on the way down south, you would have noted that it was parked across the pad with the nose facing the side of the ship. One thing to remember about the early Harriers is that they didn't like hovering in a crosswind. Hence the ship would have to slowed down to launch (The GR3 had a nasty vice, in that if you didn't watch the crosswind component while in the hover, the crosswind could cause the aircraft to turn, caused by drag on the windward side engine intake, one wing would have lift, the other wouldn't and the aircraft would roll faster than the puffer jets on the wings could counter act. Result, Harrier is on its back and falling out of the sky) That the reason that the GR3’s and SHAR’s had a wind vane in front of the windshield, so that the pilot could gauge the wind over the nose while in the hover. GR 3 Corrosion problems were due to some magnesium alloy components, which were treated with protective coatings and the aircraft, were then bagged (except for a SHAR left on the pad for QRA duties, which had those parts replaced with non- magnesium alloy parts when the type was on the drawing board). Rear Deck pad was used by Choppers, and there was a Chinook on that deck in a flyable condition, when the ship was hit by the Exocet(s). Due to the fire, a crew couldn't get to it and fly it off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    I know this piece of footage well and agree with your description except that I’ve always assumed that the Dagger was struck in the rear as opposed to from the rear?
    Well it was not a head on engagement, was it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    One bit of often shown Falklands footage is of ‘something’ moving rapidly from left-to-right in the distant sky over (presumably) San Carlos. After perhaps five seconds the object explodes with a short sharp bang, there is no ‘fireball’ but four ‘glowing’ pieces are seen to fall.

    Although it is often presented as an exploding aircraft I’ve always thought it was a Sea Cat missile exploding at the end of its run. Anybody?
    Most likely, though there is footage of something a lot bigger making quite a splash in San Carlos water. If memory serves, it was a Dagger, who's injured pilot got to see the wrong end of a SLR on the well deck of Fearless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    Well my source, who was involved in the fitting of the winders to the GR3 considered the fit a bit gash.....Bodge, in RAF slang means a non standard quick fix...
    Sorry for the confusion, I’ve no problem with the word ‘bodge’ it is a well known and accepted engineering term, and in many of the cases stated, highly appropriate, but I just didn’t want C-TT-18 singled out for criticism; he is young but as he quite rightly points out, a least he is taking the trouble to read about this period of our history.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    I've actually been there (more than once!!!) Seen a few wrecks.....and even stood on the wing of a Dagger (C-403), shot down over West Falkland by Lt Steve Thomas on 21st May (got a turbine blade from the engine kicking around in the loft somewhere).
    As for your Falklands experience I am green with envy.....but I don’t doubt there was a lot of hard work too.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    Sounds like a dodgey plan that got shelved before the ship departed.
    Clearly, but I’m amazed it got even as far as these trials!

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    Harriers flew on to the forward pad... (To the front of the pad was a forecastle weather shield, and a large mast).
    Yes, but personally I’d have taken a gas-axe to the lot! Even then I don’t suppose there was much chance of doing anything other than a vertical take-off. Maybe with a couple of weeks in a RN dockyard a ski-jump could have been ‘bodged-up’ (I mean superbly improvised!) but time was too short.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGVERN1966 View Post
    Well it was not a head on engagement, was it.
    Wasn’t it? Maybe I’ve got it all wrong but I’d assumed that the footage came from the tracker of the Type-22 that shot the Dagger down, so yes, I thought it was a head-on engagement?
    WA$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Sorry for the confusion, I’ve no problem with the word ‘bodge’ it is a well known and accepted engineering term, and in many of the cases stated, highly appropriate, but I just didn’t want C-TT-18 singled out for criticism; he is young but as he quite rightly points out, a least he is taking the trouble to read about this period of our history.
    And quite comendable as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    As for your Falklands experience I am green with envy.....but I don’t doubt there was a lot of hard work too.
    Well the first time was an adventure (Flight in a C-130 around the islands after refuelling a Phantom and a bit of fighter affil, Fox 3 kill on the Herc, plus had to do a trip down to MPA by S-61N, which had the RAF Engineering and Supply AOC on it. hour flight to MPA, turned into a four hour battlefield tour with a landing at the back of Government House (got to see Major Tomba's dead Pucara near Goose Green on that ride). The Dagger wreck (C-403 flown by Capt. Donadille who safely ejected after being shot down by Steve Thomas in ZA190/"009”) was at the bottom of Mt Caroline, which had a comms relay station on the top of the mount. A couple of Army signallers were on the mountain fixing a fault, and the wind was a bit strong, so the 'Eric' (Bristow's were operating the S-61N service at the time, hence the S-61’s were named after the crafty cockney) pilot dropped the rest of the passengers by the wreck, so that he could pick the army guys up without endangering the rest of us. I actually had the gun sight in my hand, but rules on battlefield souvenirs down there are very tight, and I knew that I would never get it though the baggage checks (was on my way to MPA to fly back to the UK, hence I chucked it in a pond by the crash site. A pity really, as my bags didn’t get checked on the way back. The following trips down south more of a bore (Though thanks to knowing my OC from my space cadet days, did San Carlos (interesting drive though the Sussex mountains), Goose Green, Mt Kent, Buff Cove and Stanley Airport (The first attempt to get there on my first trip ended up with me on foot being surrounded by signs saying ‘DANGER MINES!!!’ and a quick 180 about turn and withdraw). As for the work, ‘bodge city’ with a minimum two weeks turn around on spares for the kit I was on at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Clearly, but I’m amazed it got even as far as these trials!

    Yes, but personally I’d have taken a gas-axe to the lot! Even then I don’t suppose there was much chance of doing anything other than a vertical take-off. Maybe with a couple of weeks in a RN dockyard a ski-jump could have been ‘bodged-up’ (I mean superbly improvised!) but time was too short.
    VTOL was the only way they could operate, and even then getting onboard at ASI was tricky due the temperture at any time of the day when the aircraft embarked,as it is HOT, HOT, HOT all of the time. As for the cutting, quite a large bit of stucture,and quite important in keeping the worst of the sea's off the main deck as shown here.



    As for the ramp, would a Harrier actually fit in the stern ramp?? it would be very tight.




    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Wasn’t it? Maybe I’ve got it all wrong but I’d assumed that the footage came from the tracker of the Type-22 that shot the Dagger down, so yes, I thought it was a head-on engagement?
    When the Dagger pulls up, you can see the cockpit and I'm sure its the Sea Wolf Tracker video from HMS Broadsword (I've got a map somewhere that shows the location of the ships in Falkland sound on the Day, and Broadsword was not far from Ardent if memory serves).
    TWIN RAMJET POWERED MONOPLANE FIXER 1985 - 1989

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