Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Mexican General Mexico needs F-16s and F-18s by 2012

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061

    Mexican General Mexico needs F-16s and F-18s by 2012

    According to some press releases the Mexican General Guillermo Galván Galván has asked the mexican congress to replace equipment, among the things he asked was that Mexico needs F-16s and F-18s to replace T-33 and F-5s, the F-5 in mexican service is the last remaining type since the T-33 was already put out of service:

    Sin embargo, Galván Galván, durante su cabildeo directo sin precedentes ante los diputados, habría dicho a los legisladores que la flota de aviones de carga de la Fuerza Aérea Mexicana cumplió ya su ciclo de vida útil, y que los F-5 que le quedan llegarán a esa situación a partir del próximo año.

    Asimismo, comentó que con los recursos adicionales que solicitaba se sustituirían esos aviones por F-16 y F-17, de fabricación estadunidense.



    http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2007/10/2...ol&partner=rss

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    1,531
    What do we think Mexico would buy?

    Block 50/52 F-16s of second hand models?

    As for Hornets, from what i hve read there are no current operators that are willing to give up any, so that might mean an order for Super Hornets?
    "Quicquid agas age"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Westkerke, Belgium
    Posts
    413
    perhaps some Ex-Belgian F-16's or Alfajets.
    maybe some Ex-Isreali F-16A netz fighters.

    as for the hornets, they could buy over the F-18D models from the RMAF if they should buy the F-18F's

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Londinium
    Posts
    244
    Has Mexico ruled out non-US combat aircraft?
    As Theodore Roosevelt said:
    "Talk softly, but carry a big stick"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Land of the voting dead
    Posts
    502
    Well, wasnt mexico interested in some Su-27/30s not too long ago?
    Last edited by LoofahBoy; 10th March 2008 at 20:57.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by LoofahBoy View Post
    Well, wasnt mexico interested in some Su-27/30s not too long ago?

    In Mexico the Navy and armed forces are almost two different entities, SEDENA (air force) wants F-16s and F-18 to replace the T-33 and F-5s, SEMAR (navy) wanted the Su-27 or JAS-39 however it did not materialize.


    The Mexican defence minister asked the Mexican congress to urgently replace equipment since he claimed the air force is obsolete (basicly museum pieces) and even the satellite system used by the armed forces is very vulnerable to spies.
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 10th March 2008 at 22:20.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Tampa, Florida USA
    Posts
    11,705

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by LoofahBoy View Post
    Well, wasnt mexico interested in some Su-27/30s not too long ago?

    Yes, but the deal is off? I know Ja has a friend in Mexico with the inside scoop! I believe it had more to do with interservice politics between the AIr Force and Navy........I think? Just shoot Ja a E-Mail.
    F-35 Lightning II

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Tampa, Florida USA
    Posts
    11,705

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    In Mexico the Navy and armed forces are almost two different entities, SEDENA (air force) wants F-16s and F-18 to replace the T-33 and F-5s, SEMAR (navy) wanted the Su-27 or JAS-39 however it did not materialize.


    The Mexican defence minister asked the Mexican congress to urgently replace equipment since he claimed the air force is obsolete (basicly museum pieces) and even the satellite system used by the armed forces is very vulnerable to spies.

    Considering what Mexico is likely to afford and little threat from the Air. I personally think something like the T-50/A-50 would be a better choice. As the latter would be new and cheaper to operate. Yet, would be able to provide worthwhile Air Defense and State of the Art Strike Capabilities. Really, to bad the AMX is no longer in production! (another good choice)
    F-35 Lightning II

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    234
    t-50 or a-50 great choice

    amx needed more powerful motor

    but both would be great

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    In Mexico the Navy and armed forces are almost two different entities, SEDENA (air force) wants F-16s and F-18 to replace the T-33 and F-5s, SEMAR (navy) wanted the Su-27 or JAS-39 however it did not materialize.....
    Yes, Mexico has an odd system. The defence ministry governs the army and air force, & there is a separate ministry for the navy. It's obviously derived from the old system of separate army & navy ministries, only half-changed to fit in an air force.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    Considering what Mexico is likely to afford and little threat from the Air. I personally think something like the T-50/A-50 would be a better choice. As the latter would be new and cheaper to operate. Yet, would be able to provide worthwhile Air Defense and State of the Art Strike Capabilities. Really, to bad the AMX is no longer in production! (another good choice)
    Mexico wants aircraft for air policing. Its one squadron of old F-5Es is inadequate to enforce sovereignty, & drug smugglers routinely use Mexican airspace, almost completely safe from interception. Mexico has AEW aircraft which pick 'em up, but can't vector fighters to intercept them.

    The AMX would be incapable of intercepting many of the fast business jets used by the smugglers, & Mexico doesn't really need a bomb truck. The A-50 (or better, the proposed F-50 fighter version) would be better, or Swedish surplus JAS-39A. USed F-16A would do, if there are any in good enough condition to be worth buying.

    Persuading the navy & air force to co-operate, e.g. letting navy AEW and air force fighters work together, would be a damn good idea, but unlikely to happen.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Londinium
    Posts
    244
    I was thinking about the T-50/A-50 too.

    Is it too late for an F-20 Tigershark (suitably modernised) revival? :diablo:

    Seriously - I think there must be a market for affordable lightweight fighters, especially as many current fighters are so eye-wateringly expensive.
    As Theodore Roosevelt said:
    "Talk softly, but carry a big stick"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    101
    Seriously - I think there must be a market for affordable lightweight fighters, especially as many current fighters are so eye-wateringly expensive.[/QUOTE]

    What about the FC-1 then? Brand new, with the capabilities of an early F 16, and cheap!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Tampa, Florida USA
    Posts
    11,705

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by swedishcat View Post
    Seriously - I think there must be a market for affordable lightweight fighters, especially as many current fighters are so eye-wateringly expensive.
    What about the FC-1 then? Brand new, with the capabilities of an early F 16, and cheap![/QUOTE]



    While, the FC-1 would be a capable fighter. The South Korean A-50/T-50 could use most US PGM's. Which, will give it a very powerful strike capablity the Chinese Fighter just couldn't hope to match! Further, it is all likely to have better quality and cheaper to operate.........just my 2 cents.
    F-35 Lightning II

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    What about the FC-1 then? Brand new, with the capabilities of an early F 16, and cheap!



    While, the FC-1 would be a capable fighter. The South Korean A-50/T-50 could use most US PGM's. Which, will give it a very powerful strike capablity the Chinese Fighter just couldn't hope to match! Further, it is all likely to have better quality and cheaper to operate.........just my 2 cents.
    I guess it is very difficult mexico will buy such aircraft, the South Korean jet seems more likely politically speaking, however it is more likely they will buy F-16s or F-18s because politically is more convinient for Mexico at the most Russian or European but i guess at the end it will be F-16s and perhaps some F-18s for the Navy
    artistic renditions


    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 11th March 2008 at 15:26.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    I guess it is very difficult mexico will buy such aircraft, the South Korean jet seems more likely politically speaking, however it is more likely they will buy F-16s or F-18s because politically is more convinient for Mexico at the most Russian or European but i guess at the end it will be F-16s and perhaps some F-18s for the Navy
    IF they end up buying anything at all it'll be 1-2 squadrons of F 16's, most likely, ex US, ADV versions. Same kind of birds that Jordan got. Politics aside, I still think the FC-! would be the best option. If for nothing else I believe the Mexican airforce wants "real" fast jet fighters, which rules out the Korean birds.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by swedishcat View Post
    IF they end up buying anything at all it'll be 1-2 squadrons of F 16's, most likely, ex US, ADV versions. Same kind of birds that Jordan got. Politics aside, I still think the FC-! would be the best option. If for nothing else I believe the Mexican airforce wants "real" fast jet fighters, which rules out the Korean birds.
    Well i do not know what they will buy for sure SEDENA which basicly is the air force says they want F-16s and F-18 to replace T-33s and F-5s.

    However in the past Mexico has also bought Russian helicopters and transport aircraft and Brazilian jets




    The NAVY wanted to purchase these aircraft however none of these types was purchase








    In my opinion if the Navy remains independent and demand fighters they more likely will chose a light aircraft very likely an aircraft like the AMX

    Sourcehttp://lord-william-mx.spaces.live.c...er=Live.Spaces
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 11th March 2008 at 15:47.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    ...

    While, the FC-1 would be a capable fighter. The South Korean A-50/T-50 could use most US PGM's. Which, will give it a very powerful strike capablity the Chinese Fighter just couldn't hope to match! Further, it is all likely to have better quality and cheaper to operate.........just my 2 cents.
    But Mexico doesn't need PGMs, or a powerful strike capability! It needs fighters, for enforcing sovereignty over its airspace.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    ...
    In my opinion if the Navy remains independent and demand fighters they more likely will chose a light aircraft very likely an aircraft like the AMX

    ...
    But the AMX is useless for what Mexico wants. It'd be like buying the F-106 for ground attack. Mexico needs a fighter. Not a strike aircraft.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    102

    Border War

    No aircraft for the enemy...

    http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=16473

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    But Mexico doesn't need PGMs, or a powerful strike capability! It needs fighters, for enforcing sovereignty over its airspace.
    In latin america things are changing fast it has been said that recently Russia offered partnership to Brazil in the PAK FA, nowadays the countries that are not following strictly Washington are buying Russian or European in some cases Chinese like venezuela`s radars, in two or three decades the situation might be different but it seems that Brazil wants to become the ipso fact new military power in South american and eventually a new miliatry and economic power, this meas that in Mexico they will try to catch up and with hot things like Venezuela`s stand a new role will emerge

    “É um claro sinal de vontade política. Caberá a nós preencher esse espaço de idéias”, avisou. O ministro comentou com a reportagem que uma delegação russa deve vir a Brasília ainda no primeiro semestre do ano. Na mesa de negociações, ganha força a colaboração nos planos civil e militar. Na área de defesa, está “o desenvolvimento de um protótipo de um caça de 5ª geração”, o chamado PAK-FA T-50. “Teremos muito a ganhar em termos de capacitação e aprendizagem”, disse. Mangabeira também cita a cooperação espacial para veículos lançadores e na operação de satélites geoestacionários. “São as áreas mais promissoras”, acredita. Ele destaca ainda a parceria num novo modelo de ensino médio, transferência de tecnologia não-controlada para pequenas empresas e projetos de geração hidrelétrica. Na Rússia, Mangabeira se reuniu com assessores do presidente eleito Dmitri Medvedev, até então diretor do Projeto Nacional de Desenvolvimento, uma espécie de PAC russo.



    http://www.defesanet.com.br/md1/fr-ru_22.htm


    It is very likely that those events are also been followed by Mexico that clearly see a potential south american power in the making in Brazil and the fact brazil already is an aerospace power.

    This means that very likely in Mexico they are trying to do not be left behind, i do not think what what they want is simply a counter guerrilla force they probably are aware that they need a different role in the modern world.

    At the long run Mexico is trying to become an industrial power
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 11th March 2008 at 16:03.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    ...

    It is very likely that those events are also been followed by Mexico that clearly see a potential south american power in the making in Brazil and the fact brazil already is an aerospace power.

    This means that very likely in Mexico they are trying to do not left behind, i do not think what what they want is simply a counter guerrilla force they probably are aware that they need a different role in the modern world.
    Brazil is militarily irrelevant to Mexico, & always has been. It is not a threat or military competitor. Nor is Venezuela, nor any other Latin American countries. Mexico has no external threats or military competitors. Mexico is quite content to be "left behind" by every significant Latin American country. It has been for decades. It doesn't matter, it doesn't make any difference. The USA will not permit any stronger (than Mexico) country to intervene in Mexico, & its other neighbours are so much poorer & weaker that they cannot possibly pose any threat. Mexicos armed forces exist for internal security, border patrol, EEZ protection, & national pride. What else would they do? Invade Guatemala?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Brazil is militarily irrelevant to Mexico, & always has been. It is not a threat or military competitor. Nor is Venezuela, nor any other Latin American countries. Mexico has no external threats or military competitors. Mexico is quite content to be "left behind" by every significant Latin American country. It has been for decades. It doesn't matter, it doesn't make any difference. The USA will not permit any stronger (than Mexico) country to intervene in Mexico, & its other neighbours are so much poorer & weaker that they cannot possibly pose any threat. Mexicos armed forces exist for internal security, border patrol, EEZ protection, & national pride. What else would they do? Invade Guatemala?
    That is the Current state of affairs, however you are not realizing that Brazil is going to build a nuclear submarine and Russia has offered a partnership to Brazil in the PAK FA, besides in Mexico they want to create an aerospace industry, this means at the long run is Brazil will become a more powerful country in fact it has the fourth largest aircraft industry ( commercial aircraft ) in the world and will become a space power in less than 15 years, very likely Mexico will remain for at least in the near future an US ally however it does not mean that the development of an aerospace industry at the long run means in Mexico they do no want to catch up with Brazil by the way the US economy shows signs of a weaking economy that won`t be able to remain to continue its past role in latin america very long.

    Embraer C-390



    Already GE has developed an research center in Queretaro Mexico using mexican engineers to help develop a new engine or the A-380, this means that in Mexico in few decades an economy with more technological development and this will need a more powerful aerospace industry and military

    Mexico City— General Electric Infrastructure Queretaro expanded its
    engineering center, specialized in the design of airplane turbines
    and ecologic energy generation turbines.

    This expansion will generate around 600 jobs for Mexican engineers
    recently graduated from different colleges, the Company’s officers
    said.

    Around 1,050 engineers in aeronautics industry are currently working
    at this plant in Queretaro.

    “This project not only means employment generation, but also the
    development of technology in Mexico”, said President Felipe Calderon
    in the Center’s inauguration.

    Giovanni Aloi Timeuz, Director of GE Energia in Mexico said that
    they will focus on making space industry evolve; among their plans
    stands out the new GX turbine, “in which design more than 120
    engineers participate and will achieve a 20% reduction in fuel and
    is also less noisy”.

    Mexico’s aeronautics sector generated around 20,000 jobs and
    contributed to exports with US$2.6 billion. General Electric is
    planning to invest US$100 million in Mexico only this year.

    Source:CNNExpansión


    http://www.maquilaportal.com/cgi-bin...oard.pl?klie=6
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 11th March 2008 at 16:29.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    That is the Current state of affairs, however you are not realizing that Brazil is going to build a nuclear submarine and Russia has offered a partnership to Brazil in the PAK FA, besides in Mexico they want to create an aerospace industry, this means at the long run is Brazil will become a more powerful country in fact it has the fourth largest aircraft industry ( commercial aircraft ) in the world and will become a space power in less than 15 years, very likely Mexico will remain for at least in the near future an US ally however it does not mean that the development of an aerospace industry at the long run means in Mexico they do no want to catch up with Brazil by the way the US economy shows signs of a weaking economy that won`t be able to remain to continue its past role in latin america very long.
    ...
    All of which is completely irrelevant to Mexicos military. Whatever happens to the US economy, it will still be able to squash anyone who even looks hard at Mexico. Geography, m'boy, geography. And Brazils military remains of no significance whatsoever to Mexico. THEY ARE NOT MILITARY RIVALS. Might as well claim that Italy has to boost its armed forces in response to an Indonesian build-up.

    Buying a few fighters has nothing to do with Mexicos aerospace industry. Mexico spends about 0.5% of GDP on the armed forces, & there's no sign of it increasing, because there's no need. The threats are civil unrest & organised crime - only.

    Your talk of military rivalry is inappropriate. Except for officers who look enviously at the more & better equipment Brazil has, planners in Mexico take no account whatsoever of Brazils armed forces. They don't matter to Mexico. A war between them is as unthinkable as a war between Poland & Paraguay. They have nothing to quarrel about, & there is nowhere they interface.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    All of which is completely irrelevant to Mexicos military. Whatever happens to the US economy, it will still be able to squash anyone who even looks hard at Mexico. Geography, m'boy, geography. And Brazils military remains of no significance whatsoever to Mexico. THEY ARE NOT MILITARY RIVALS. Might as well claim that Italy has to boost its armed forces in response to an Indonesian build-up.

    Buying a few fighters has nothing to do with Mexicos aerospace industry. Mexico spends about 0.5% of GDP on the armed forces, & there's no sign of it increasing, because there's no need. The threats are civil unrest & organised crime - only.

    Your talk of military rivalry is inappropriate. Except for officers who look enviously at the more & better equipment Brazil has, planners in Mexico take no account whatsoever of Brazils armed forces. They don't matter to Mexico. A war between them is as unthinkable as a war between Poland & Paraguay. They have nothing to quarrel about, & there is nowhere they interface.
    Your words reflect what americans thinks about Mexico, not what Mexicans think about Mexico.

    Mexico is a Latin American nation, the Mexican Government knows Mexico won`t start a war, has no weaponry basicly the mexican army is a anti guerrilla force that is used against local insurgents and drug dealers, that is true.

    However Mexico has a limited weapons manufacturing capability, currently Mexico builds fuselages of US military Helos for McDonnel Douglas Helicopters, electric harnesses for F-16s and F-22 on one hand these are built by foreign companies and in the other hand some ships, rockets, light aircraft, UAVs and guns by mexican firms.

    this is a Oaxaca class ship built in mexico

    Mexico has bought Brazilian aircraft and the impression they caused was great, Embraer has become an example of success, this and the economic competition by China forced mexico to modernize its technology, mexico has been forced to increase the number of designers and high tech research centers, some do work for foreign firms or off shots of western firms, however as brazil advances and China takes more markets the Mexican government knows in order to create jobs they need tech transfer or at least trained specialists in the fields of high tech.




    These technicians in some instances have created local weapons like the S4 Ehecatl UAV, as time passes the Mexican military willl have more people capable of creating weapons and also will demand better weapons, this might take between 20-40 years however the seeds are already planted, that is the reason the the mexican navy has demanded to create a naval missil, bought Russian SA-7s. courted Russia for the installation of a Mi-8 manufacturing plant in Veracruz mexico and by Ukraine when Ukraine offered to build Antonov aircraft in Zacatecas Mexico .

    In Mexico there is a desire of not being left behind by Brazil in terms of the tech race and make a nation with more designing capability in terms of high tech to resist more the US economic crises
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 12th March 2008 at 04:59.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,729
    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    Your words reflect what americans thinks about Mexico, not what Mexicans think about Mexico..
    Not only am I not from the USA, I've never even been there, & certainly do not see Mexico from a US point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    Mexico is a Latin American nation, the Mexican Government knows Mexico won`t start a war, has no weaponry basicly the mexican army is a anti guerrilla force that is used against local insurgents and drug dealers, that is true.
    At last! Some sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD View Post
    However Mexico has a limited weapons manufacturing capability, currently Mexico builds fuselages of US military Helos for McDonnel Douglas Helicopters, electric harnesses for F-16s and F-22 on one hand these are built by foreign companies and in the other hand some ships, rockets, light aircraft, UAVs and guns by mexican firms....
    Mexico has bought Brazilian aircraft and the impression they caused was great, Embraer has become an example of success, this and the economic competition by China forced mexico to modernize its technology, mexico has been forced to increase the number of designers and high tech research centers, some do work for foreign firms or off shots of western firms, however as brazil advances and China takes more markets the Mexican government knows in order to create jobs they need tech transfer or at least trained specialists in the fields of high tech.
    ...

    These technicians in some instances have created local weapons like the S4 Ehecatl UAV, as time passes the Mexican military willl have more people capable of creating weapons and also will demand better weapons, this might take between 20-40 years however the seeds are already planted, that is the reason the the mexican navy has demanded to create a naval missil, bought Russian SA-7s. courted Russia for the installation of a Mi-8 manufacturing plant in Veracruz mexico and by Ukraine when Ukraine offered to build Antonov aircraft in Zacatecas Mexico .
    ...
    In Mexico there is a desire of not being left behind by Brazil in terms of the tech race and make a nation with more designing capability in terms of high tech to resist more the US economic crises
    None of which has any connection whatsoever to the possible purchase of fighters by Mexico. Can't you get it through your head that not everything should be seen through a prism of military rivalry?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,061
    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Not only am I not from the USA, I've never even been there, & certainly do not see Mexico from a US point of view.



    At last! Some sense!



    None of which has any connection whatsoever to the possible purchase of fighters by Mexico. Can't you get it through your head that not everything should be seen through a prism of military rivalry?
    man let us analize why Mexico wants F-16s or F-18s, any drug dealer will fly aircraft that have speeds at the most of 900km per hour, even LEARJETS or HAWKs



    however the average drug dealer operates something more like this with a speed of 600km/h




    in the close support the Mexican insurget groups do not fly any jet or aircraft in fact with some gunships and light aircraft they can deal with them




    Why then they need a fighter of Mach 2 or one of Mach 1.8?

    Logic simply other nations are modernizing with Su-30s, Mirage 2000 or F-16s in south america, so obviously in Mexico there is a need for at least a token force of modern fighters.

    However the Mexican government is trying to adquire an aircraft manufacturing capability similar to Brazil that can produce even AWACs and light attack aircraft, it is obviously a reaction to the latest developments in South america and the need of creating an industry that gives jobs to the mexican people.






    In fact the ERJ-145 has military versions, like the Bombardier challenger that also is going to be build in Mexico



    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 12th March 2008 at 09:25.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES