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Thread: Argentine Pucara A-549 at Duxford

  1. #1
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    Argentine Pucara A-549 at Duxford

    I’m pleased to see this under cover.

    Is it to get some much needed ‘restoration’ (for Falklands 25 year commemoration perhaps)?

    (Sincerest apologies for ‘stealing’ your photo Septic.)

    WA$.
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    Last edited by Creaking Door; 3rd January 2007 at 12:59.

  2. #2
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    How many are their in the UK? How come their isn't a flying one?

  3. #3
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    Enough to have started scrapping them!

    A-515 (ZD485) – RAF Museum Cosford

    A-517 – Privately owned. Possibly shipped to the Channel Islands? (Anybody know?)

    A-522 (8768M) – North East Aircraft Museum (on loan from Fleet Air Arm Museum – Yeovilton)

    A-528 (8769M) – Norfolk & Suffolk Aviation Museum (on loan from Museum of Army Flying - Middle Wallop)

    A-533 (ZD486) – (Cockpit Section) Boscombe Down Aviation Collection

    A-549 (ZD487) – IWM Duxford

    The only one flown in the UK was A-515 (ZD485) from Boscombe Down between 24/08/1982 and 09/09/1983 (to Cosford).

    Why aren’t any flying in the UK?

    Certification? Difficulty in getting spares. Lack of money. Lack of Interest.


    WA$.
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 3rd January 2007 at 18:54.

  4. #4
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    What happened to the one that was at Middle Wallop?

  5. #5
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    A-533 was scrapped around 1997.

    They do have another (A-528) on loan to the Norfolk & Suffolk Aviation Museum.

    I’ve edited my previous post (#3) to give more info.

    WA$.
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 3rd January 2007 at 18:56.

  6. #6
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    Will it get some restoration?

    When you consider the Victor (being the rare Mk.1 bomber converted to a tanker) has also gone 'inside' for the first time, probably ever at Duxford, I would have thought this may be the next priority project for the IWM.

    After all we will have finshed the Hastings by early spring.

    It will be interesting to see if the new 'restoration' part of the new 'Airspace' building will be used for this purpose.

  7. #7
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    hey FW - are you Andy M who works at Duxford?

    if not - do you have his email address?

    I'm a friend of his...

    cheers zwit
    Last edited by *Zwitter*; 3rd January 2007 at 19:25.

  8. #8
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    Hello Zwit

    Sorry no I am not Andy M and I do not know who he is? Sorry.

    Hello Mike J

    Thanks for the correction. My colleague at DX has to check the installed dehumidfiers located in the cockpit. We were doing a check (actually emptying the buckets!) in the summer and the humidity was like being sat in a hot sauna. I am pleased to say after moving inside the humdity has significantly decreased.

    I would not recommend powering up any of the flaps at the moment though; the last time I looked at them 'swiss cheese' came to mind. However all is repairable and a good majority of the aircraft is not as bad as first appears.

  9. #9
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    Fouga - the flying qualities of the Pucara left a little to be desired according to a guy who flew an evaluation on it. It's not the most desirable of aircraft from the cost of manintainance either.

  10. #10
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    Interesting, the last I heard the Pucara and the Sea Vixen were on the IWM disposal list as being "Insignificant". They used a similar term in connection with the "disposal/exchange" of the Messerschmitt Me163B. I rather thought that it was a technologically significant design myself....still I'm just an aircraft engineer

  11. #11
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    The IWM were happy with the Me163 for a long time pre Air-Space - the Pucara I am sure will move on before too long.

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    Interesting, the last I heard the Pucara and the Sea Vixen were on the IWM disposal list as being "Insignificant". They used a similar term in connection with the "disposal/exchange" of the Messerschmitt Me163B. I rather thought that it was a technologically significant design myself....still I'm just an aircraft engineer
    Hope the Sea Vixen future is not correct, First part of the Collection to fly in under its own steam, Second or third airframe to arrive at the site (Did the Canberra precede it? Donated by Royal Navy in good faith etc. etc. (And a beautiful design as well). It is now as much a part of DX history as its' place in Military history!
    Departed until sense is talked

  13. #13
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    Is being at Duxford for a long time that historically significant? Some would argue that the Sea Vixen whilst a beautiful design didn't really fire a shot in anger and is more technically interesting than anything else.

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    Makes you wonder what value they place on "War prizes" that are really the property of the nation as they were "won" by forces acting on the county's behalf. Then again this is the same museum that spent £42k of lottery money on a Zero wreck that is less intact than the one they already have at Lambeth. That was about 6 years ago and it doesn't look like much of an investment to me and seems to be rather "insignificant" in comparison to a complete Cold war Sea Vixen in its original paintwork or a Pucara captured when we liberated one of our own outlying communities from an aggressor in 1982. I guess it's just not PC to have items that reflect we have beaten enemy forces in the past or that we had a stand-off with the Warsaw pact for umpteen years.............

  15. #15
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    Is being at Duxford for a long time that historically significant?
    Well thinking about it as the p51 now resides at Lambeth it is THE oldest museum inhabitant, pretty sure it was neck and neck with the Canberras road arrival. Also, unlike Canberra wher I believe money changed hands, the Sea Vixen was repainted by Navy before they flew it in FOC.

    I was always brought up to value and treasure gifts.

    Also with the history of the type and its' predecessors at Farnborough etc. I would argue it does havea military history, if not in action.
    Departed until sense is talked

  16. #16
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    Just like they did with the immaculate Convair VT-29 that flew in from Mildenhall in 1975, a gift from the Us Government.
    Reply With Quote
    As someone who flew on that 'plane after it arrived at DX (twice) and can remember the enthusiasm of the US service guys who brought it in I often wonder what they thought of the demise of their aircraft.
    Departed until sense is talked

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burke View Post
    Is being at Duxford for a long time that historically significant? Some would argue that the Sea Vixen whilst a beautiful design didn't really fire a shot in anger and is more technically interesting than anything else.
    Should that a pre-requisite for any exhibit? In which case they’ll have to dispose of the Lightning and possibly the Phantom. Concorde would have to go, any other to add to the list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    A-517 – Privately owned. Possibly shipped to the Channel Islands? (Anybody know?)
    Not in Jersey as far as I am aware.
    Ian

    MAKING A LIVING IN PHOTOGRAPHY BUT ONLY ON MY WIFE'S TALENTS

  18. #18
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    If it was a toss-up between money being spent on the Pucara or the Victor (or any Victor)…

    …then I’d spend it on the Victor every time but I don’t think the Pucara needs much attention.

    It would be nice if it was just ‘complete’ but ‘un-restored’ and kept in the dry.

    I’ve always thought of the Pucara as the Stuka of the Falklands War and only 15 years after the war they are being scrapped.

    What if the Stuka at the RAF Museum had been scrapped in 1960?

    And think of what was scrapped in 1960. What would we give for those aircraft now!

    WA$.
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 3rd January 2007 at 23:56.

  19. #19
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    I seem to remember Duxford Pucarna being under cover for a while where the Battle of Britain bit is as a mini diorama to commemorate the Falklands campaign.

    Its been a while since ive been down to Middle Wallop but i do remember it being in a pretty sorry state. Im sure there was a Tank in the Car Park but i seem to remember something near the Pucarna. Can anyone remember it?

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=David Burke;..........Some would argue that the Sea Vixen whilst a beautiful design didn't really fire a shot in anger and is more technically interesting than anything else.[/QUOTE]

    The Torrey Canyon wouldn't agree

  21. #21
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    The Sea Vixen is a beautiful aircraft, and I don't like jets. The pucara is a good bit of war booty, and I for one remember that war. 250-odd families of British Servicemen do too. A Pucara is a good reminder.

    The Sea Vixen - well, whether it has or hasn't been blooded is irrelevant - it is British Military Aviation, it is a nice exhibit, and it is important in it's own right. I'd do away with the airliners myself.

    "I was always brought up to value and treasure gifts."

    me too.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roobarb View Post
    Makes you wonder what value they place on "War prizes" that are really the property of the nation as they were "won" by forces acting on the county's behalf. Then again this is the same museum that spent £42k of lottery money on a Zero wreck that is less intact than the one they already have at Lambeth. That was about 6 years ago and it doesn't look like much of an investment to me and seems to be rather "insignificant" in comparison to a complete Cold war Sea Vixen in its original paintwork or a Pucara captured when we liberated one of our own outlying communities from an aggressor in 1982. I guess it's just not PC to have items that reflect we have beaten enemy forces in the past or that we had a stand-off with the Warsaw pact for umpteen years.............

    I couldn't agree more Roobarb, with the 25th anniversary of the Falklands war almost upon us the Pucara should be placed prominently on display with other representative types associated with the war.

    From the IWM website.


    The Imperial War Museum is thus the national museum of twentieth century conflict. It illustrates and records all aspects of modern war, and of the individual's experience of war, whether allied or enemy, service or civilian, military or political, social or cultural. Its rôle embraces the causes, course and consequences of conflict and it has an essentially educational purpose.

    Can't seem to see a Falklands exemption in this statement.

    Creaking Door, don't worry about the photo.

    Septic.
    Real Messerschmitts have Merlins

    http://www.woodlandsjoinery.co.uk/

  23. #23
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    PUKEcara

    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post

    Enough to have started scrapping them!


    Lack of interest. WA$.

    .
    Re 1st quote.......


    Gis a shout when someone's finally finished & done the job properly.....

    (i.e. ALL of them & I'll personally treat the guy (hero) to few beers:diablo: )


    Re 2nd quote....... is it REALLY any wonder ???

  24. #24
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    What exactly is your objection to the Pucara…aesthetics?

    WA$.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    What exactly is your objection to the Pucara…aesthetics?

    WA$.

    Perhaps it was its role in the "War of British Aggression".
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septic View Post
    I couldn't agree more Roobarb, with the 25th anniversary of the Falklands war almost upon us the Pucara should be placed prominently on display with other representative types associated with the war.

    From the IWM website.


    The Imperial War Museum is thus the national museum of twentieth century conflict. It illustrates and records all aspects of modern war, and of the individual's experience of war, whether allied or enemy, service or civilian, military or political, social or cultural. Its rôle embraces the causes, course and consequences of conflict and it has an essentially educational purpose.

    Can't seem to see a Falklands exemption in this statement.

    Creaking Door, don't worry about the photo.

    Septic.
    No doubt the Pucara could do with some work, but it's not been ignored as far as interpretation goes. It was part of a Falklands anniversary display in 2002.

  27. #27
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    No doubt the Pucara could do with some work, but it's not been ignored as far as interpretation goes. It was part of a Falklands anniversary display in 2002.
    No comment on the Sea Vixen then?
    Departed until sense is talked

  28. #28
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    The Sea Vixen does seem to be quite well represented in other museums…and in the air (thanks RedBull)!

    I’m always surprised (but pleased) to find one at Duxford. I suppose a Sea Vixen feels a bit ‘Naval’ in Cambridgeshire.

    But then we’re not likely to see one at Cosford or Hendon are we.

    WA$.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanF View Post
    No doubt the Pucara could do with some work, but it's not been ignored as far as interpretation goes. It was part of a Falklands anniversary display in 2002.
    I thought i rememerd it indoors. I may even have a photo somewhere of it indoors.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by airgage View Post
    No comment on the Sea Vixen then?
    Oh, you mean Roobarb's speculation about it being on a disposal list? No idea I'm afraid. But tough decisions have to be made; not every museum can have an example of every type, and each of them is going to have to revisit its collecting policy in light of the other museums in the UK and their respective remits. It's something that comes up fairly regularly on here as I'm sure you've noticed.
    Last edited by JonathanF; 6th January 2007 at 15:47.

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