Vulcan XM603 to be scrapped?

[J31/32]

Thought this deserves it's own thread. There is a pretty strong rumour that '603 is to be scrapped at Woodford as a result of an airfield audit. Is this aircraft more worthy of preservation than the Blackpool example of which a huge frenzy was produced? Here is an example in better condition that was ,until fairly recently, engine run.

If anyone could confirm/deny the rumour that would be great.

Cheers,

J man

[Bruce]

A little while ago, we did a sort of audit of which Vulcans were likely to be scrapped over the coming years. XL391 was No 1 on the list, and XM603 was not far after simply because of the likelihood of the airfield being closed and redeveloped.

For a comparison, look at Hatfield - there was a preserved Trident there for many years, which, as soon as the change of use was granted for the airfield, had to be scrapped - no other choice.

So, put simply, if it is likely that Woodford will be closed in the next few years, it is equally likely that the Vulcan will be removed before that happens. What else can be done with it?


Bruce

[XL391]

Can Manchester AVP take it? To have a Concorde and a Vulcan?

[TobyV]

I dont think thats likely. I know its not far away, but you've still got the same problems that we have with the Trident, i.e. the cost and complexity of dismantling and reassembling (and all to certain safety standards). Theres no space for any more exhibits in the AVP and certainly no spare cash for such a project at the present time.

[Bruce]

Trident makes a good comparison with the Vulcan position.

Ten years ago, we had a large number of complete Tridents up and down the country. Mostly being used for crew trainers, fire training or similar.

Right now, there are 2 - one at Duxford, and one at Wroughton. The Manchester one is all there, but awaits reassembly; a not insignificant task. (There may be one or two left at airports, not sure, but their days are numbered)

It is my belief that the Vulcan picture will not be so different in time.


Bruce

[andyxh558]

Right now 603 has one of it's left elevons pulled up to almost 45 degrees. she is turning green aswell. somehting has to be done now or i am afraid she will be tin cans soon, at least wellesborne will have some new engines for XM655

[XL391]

...603 has one of it's left elevons pulled up to almost 45 degrees. she is turning green aswell...

Don't let this be an indication of her condition, the shabby paintwork hides the fact that she is in fantastic condition, maybe one of the best. I feel sorry for the heritage guys....

[andrewman]

Yes something does need to be done but the point is what, at one time XM603 was worked on regularly and was ground run, as far as I know the last run was in August 2002 and work on the aircraft has slowly come to a stop over the last 4 years.

As far as I know health and safety people stopped the ground runs as they were unhappy about the Vulcan being I quote "full of fuel all the time". It would seem health and safety person's may have limited the maintenance work that can be done on the Vulcan this along with the fact that the people who worked on it are now getting old is the reason its in its current state.

With a good clean a repaint and a bit of long term TLC XM603 could be kept on site long term and if and when Woodford shuts down the Vulcan could be kept on display at the housing or retail park that will end up being built there.

[TobyV]

Bruce,

Re the Trident situation, I keep an up-to-date list of all aircraft at www.hs121.org , click "HS 121 Trident" and then "Production list" on the left nav bar. Theres three fairly complete airframes in the UK in preservation, G-AVFE, ours (G-AWZK) and G-AWZM. Beyond that, theres a few noses and forward fuses in museums or private ownership and three fairly complete ones on fire dumps (G-AVFE, G-ARPO, G-AWZS). G-AVFJ is next up for scrapping I believe.

The Chinese are still preserving some. We got some news yesterday that the ones at Guangzhou/Baiyun are being moved:
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20060815/Img244809751.jpg
http://bbs.feeeco.com/upload/2006081...0917374110.jpg

Andrewman,

I like the idea of trying to keep the Vulcan on site come what may (housing/trading estate etc). Woodford may be here in years time, maybe in five years time but it wont be there forever, but it would be nice if an example of their best ever product (cue debate ) was kept there as a lasting reminder. I would not be averse to it being mounted on stilts like the Sinsheim Concorde. That way the vandals wouldnt be able to grafitti it Theres a Hunter on a pole at former RNAS Ford near me and from a visual impact point of view it strikes me as a good way of displaying it... paints a bit tatty mind, but there are drawbacks to everything.

[XL391]

I agree, especially as she is in such good condition. The Bigwigs and Bureaucrats at BAe should NOT be allowed to get their way... Anyway, could she not be moved to a 'less sensitive' part of the site so that volunteers can work on her/clean her? I would gladly give up my free time to help out! I've just found an email address for Avro Heritage from HERE

[ballyctid]

Andrewman is spot on, i spoke with a guy at Wellesbourne recently and he told me they had stopped work because of h and s factors, also that the "old" guys had been to keep away, i was there the day she landed, as an ex Bae employee, she came in formation with 3 others flown by Charles Masefield and i think Bob Pogson as Navigator, its sacrelidge that yet another bit of history will bite the dust, the Wellesbourne guy did say they were being allowed to take some parts for their aircraft.

[XL391]

Just because she can't be ground run, is that any reason to smash her to an ally pulp??

[andyxh558]

she cant go anywhere either as her front wheel steeing has broke too.

[XL391]

Well, it's true ladies and gents, she's going, very soon. I've just got off the phone to Woodford where the guy informed me that although he can't confirm or deny anything, a decision HAS been taken and it is not a good one, going as far as to say what an absolute tragedy it is. It's not because Woodford is about to be developed either, because it is staying open until at least 2012 because of various ongoing contracts. I am absolutely DISGUSTED myself. They've also kicked all of the club members off site to boot!! What a set of beureaucratic ars*holes.

Avro Heritage can be contacted on: 0161 955 4182

[Jon H]

Wonder what if anything will/can be saved?!!!

What a shame.....

[FMK.6JOHN]

Where do I start?, Having read this thread with the hope that it was either a misguided rumour or just a leg pull I am now faced with the stark fact that yet another unnessacery violation of our aviation heritage is taking place.

My heart goes out to all those involved with the Avro Heritage Trust and her restoration, One has to feel sorry for those who put in time, money and effort only to be told by some beurocratic twit that they are not welcome any more.......WHY?.
If H&S bulls**t had been around at Woodford when they were building Vulcan’s then I think that they would never have got into the air and our world might have been a very different place.

This magnificent tin delta ruled the skies at a time when our national security was in danger and when the need for a deterrent/strike plan was paramount and conceived well before the birth of those now in charge her final destiny.

I only hope that those who make the decision of what will happen to her and when will hang their heads in shame and come to regret it, sadly this will not happen.

One also has to hope that when it does come to it, she will be dismantled sympathetically and that as many spare parts will be salvaged and gifted to other organisations so that other Vulcan’s will benefit and that at the very least the nose section will be preserved as a tribute to what she stood for and all those who worked on her.


Regards,


John.

[XL391]

I think there has been a delay with her demise because there are people trying to salvage as much as they can. You can tell by BAe's behaviour that they wouldn't have told anyone, just swept her aside without saying a word. Can we do anything? Does Elvington want a Vulcan?

[FMK.6JOHN]

It has been discussed elswhere on this forum about how a Vulcan would be transported and the only sensable option would be to section her and road her to Elvington, one has to admit that there may not be enough money or resources to do such a huge task.

It pains me to say this but most all of the Vulcan's that are preserved are immovable unless under their own power (taxying), and if they are left to neglect then sadly destruction is innevitable (Blackpool a fine example).

Regards,

John.

[XL391]

Some excellent photos of her here . Will a few nasty emails to BAe make even a jot of difference?? It's been a bad year for Vulcan survivors hasn't it??

[pierrepjc]

Top set of photos, its when you look at these you fully understand that our heritage is slipping away.
E-mails to BAe- would be total waste of time anyone of like minded nature has either retired of moved on, sorry but pound and pence rule now.
Most at the top would think that a Vulcan was something off Star Trek, (no really).

Paul

[pierrepjc]

On the idea to section her and move to Elvington, I'll go for that and be quite prepared to volunteer to provide my labour along with a friend (we both having some aircraft experience).
Paul

[Thunderbird167]

As far as I am aware only the Vulcan at Hendon has been taken apart, moved and re-assembled.

Moving XM603 to any new location would be a mammoth and expensive task. The costs involved would be unlikely to be re-couped through increased revenue at the new location.

Sorry to be negative but I think a move is unlikely.

[Peter]

she would look good beside the Victor at elvington though

[landraver]

i dont mind helping either, elvington is 40 mins away from me she would look good next to lusty lindy save her now before she is turned into coke cans

[CIRCUS 6]

Yawn.

Lots more "chatter" about another doomed tin triangle.

Remember those funny snail eating types on the other side of the Channel? What do they do when someone crosses em?? Get on an internet forum? No, they take physical ACTION.

What about a large organised PROTEST to increase public awareness? Yes I do mean to leave the keyboard alone and take a trip to Manchester and DO SOMETHING..........

Anyway, if you have any experience of the ENORMOUS task that carefully splitting any aircraft for transportation involves (and the Vulcan wouldn't be on a list of "easy" projects), you'd stop even contemplating it now.

Left to chatter, IT WILL BE CUT UP, with ACTION it may be saved.

You make your bed.......

C6

[bentwingbomber]

It would need a BIG PAIR OF HANDS to dismantle it eh C6?

[CIRCUS 6]

It would need a BIG PAIR OF HANDS to dismantle it eh C6?

You have nowt to say bwb, and you're saying it too loudly (see you next time).

[landraver]

ok so how do we go about it where do we start?

[f4]

I spoke to a senior BAE Systems rep at Duxford today about XM603. He said they are looking into dismantling it for removal from Woodford and are going to talk to several "interested parties". It is not intended to scrap it at this stage, although there are, of course, no guarantees.

[J31/32]

They have an Avro 707 so why not 'complete' the story with the nose or more of '603? Seems an ideal place for me. Well, it's birthplace would be ideal but nevermind.

J man