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Thread: TOP GUN and Agressor aircraft schools around the world

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    TOP GUN and Agressor aircraft schools around the world

    Any information on the Russian, British or Japanese agressor aircraft


    and


    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 13th April 2006 at 11:41.

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    TACDE in India uses the Mig-21's .... I think ....... ????

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    The Turkish agressor squadron at Konya uses F-5A-2000.

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    I don't think the RAF has an aggressor squadron in any real sense, the UK does hire private contractors like FRA to provide target facilities.
    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

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    RE: TOP GUN and Agressor aircraft schools around the world

    Israel, Taiwan, Singapore also have ACMI ranges and aggressor squadrons. The RAF and the French AF share an ACMI range over the North Sea. Canada has a huge ACMI range at Cold Lake, where Maple Flag. Most of these countries have an ACMI system by EHUD of Israel. Evidently, most countries do not need the extensive system like the ACMI system by Cubic Corp. To my knowledge America has only three remaining.

    Neither Russia AF nor PLAAF have any ACMI ranges!!

    Adrian
    Adrian_44

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    TACDE uses Mig-21/27 Mirage 2000 and I think Mig-29 also. Maharajpur AFB at Gwalior is equipped with the Ehud ACMI system.

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    A Russian agressor MiG-23MLD

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    That's not a MiG-23 belonging to a dedicated russian agressor unit. It is a plane formerly belonging to 120 IAP and it is pictured here with three fuel tanks while flying from Bagram back home during the russians retreat from Afghanistan in early 1989.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox One
    That's not a MiG-23 belonging to a dedicated russian agressor unit. It is a plane formerly belonging to 120 IAP and it is pictured here with three fuel tanks while flying from Bagram back home during the russians retreat from Afghanistan in early 1989.
    Well that is right sorry, however the agressor MiG-23 did indeed wear the same camuflage by the exception of a stripe on the dorsal fin with red stars in it and a different badge cartoon on the air inlet of a Viking.
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 16th April 2006 at 02:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD
    Well that is right sorry, however the agressor MiG-23 did indeed worn the same camuflage by the exception of a stripe on the dorsal fin with red stars in it and a different badge cartoon on the air inlet of a Viking.
    But the days of former SU agressor sqns are long gone. The MiG-23s are kept in storage and did not flew for years and maybe never again. I hope that some will be kept in flying condition for a historic flight at least.

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    The North Sea ACMI range has been closed down, apparently mobile phone signals interfere with the Radio masts. Also less airforces could afford to send aircraft to the range and GPS based range systems are more affordable.
    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

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    100 Squadron based at RAF Leeming supports frontline fast jet and helicopter training in the aggressor role.

    Images of 100 Sqn Hawks at the following links:

    http://www.targeta.co.uk/images/041_4287_RJa.jpg

    http://photos.airliners.net/photos/m.../6/1020669.jpg

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    The other reason for closing the North Sea ACMI range was the growth of ACMI pods, which meant that having a complex dedicated range was less necessary. ACMI pods allow for similar types of training, on an ad hoc basis, by simply flying out to some empty airspace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xanadu
    TACDE in India uses the Mig-21's .... I think ....... ????
    Some MiG-21s and MiG-27MLs are permanently attached to TACDE. The rest of the aircraft (all types) are borrowed from various squadrons.

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    I don't know about the F5-2000 but the Turkish Air force is definately using HAF F16s and M-2000 as Aggressor aircraft..... Sometimes even upgraded F4s PI2000.

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    russian MiG-29 agressor

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    That's not agressor aircraft (from the Mary-1 Training Center TsBP 1524) but looks like aircraft from Fighter Aviation Regiment based at Putnitz in the former East Germany (73 IAP).

    "Real" MiG-23MLD/29 agressors look like this:

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_1.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_2.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_3.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor29_1.jpg

    Hard-assed pilots if they were ever them on the Soviet Union...

    There was also an Advanced Training Unit (TsBP should be the correct title) working for the V-PVO that used to fly on agressor role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pit
    That's not agressor aircraft (from the Mary-1 Training Center TsBP 1524) but looks like aircraft from Fighter Aviation Regiment based at Putnitz in the former East Germany (73 IAP).

    "Real" MiG-23MLD/29 agressors look like this:

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_1.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_2.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor23_3.jpg

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/airf...ressor29_1.jpg

    Hard-assed pilots if they were ever them on the Soviet Union...

    There was also an Advanced Training Unit (TsBP should be the correct title) working for the V-PVO that used to fly on agressor role.
    You are right but if you check both aircraft look very similar except by the badge and stripe on the vertical fin, basicly both MiG-23 wear a shark mouth on the nose just beside the radome
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 18th April 2006 at 01:31.

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    Shark-mouths were applied to 120 IAP's MiG-23MLD and later to its MiG-29. They were based for some time (typical squadron rotation) on Bagram, their home is "Domna" near Chita.

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    Tactics of modern fighters has taken much from experience of the local wars which are being, undoubtedly, by the most effective range for tests of new combat material and arms. Really, in the beginning of 50th years in Korea check there have passed subsonic jet planes, and fifteen years later, in Vietnam - supersonic, equipped by guided missiles; in some years, in the Near East, the same machines have met in maneuverable air fights which concept was at all denied in the middle of 60th years. Results of their fighting application have been carefully analysed by experts abroad. On the basis of the made conclusions offers on the further perfection of tactics of air fight were developed.


    МиГ-23МЛД from the Center of preparation летного structure, Туркмения, 1990
    Experience of Vietnam, the Near East has shown, that tactics of conducting air fight and application истребительной aircraft in the Soviet Air Forces (namely our school there have passed the Vietnamese and Arabian pilots) have become outdated and not absolutely corresponded to requirements of time. Command of the Air Forces, considering an indefatigable pressure in the Near East, with the purpose of the decision of these questions and raisings of prestige of the Soviet aviation technics have made a decision to create group from among the most skilled (by criteria of a peace time) fighter pilots of front parts.





    At various times preparation in such groups there passed officers (from among personally familiar to the author and a lot of told to it about those events): Plohov Nikolay Sergeevich, Lazeev Michael Vasilevich, Sokolov Grigory Borisovich, Vasilenko Alexander Vasilevich, Kochetkov Vladimir Sergeevich, nowadays colonels and lieutenant colonels in resignation and a stock, in the same years - young both perspective captains and the senior lieutenants, but it is indispensable - military pilots of 1-st class.


    МиГ-29 from the Center of preparation летного structure, Туркмения, 1990

    In the beginning 1970 on the basis of one of истребительных полков Air Forces ТуркВО (the choice proved presence of 360 days in a year with favorable for flights метеообстановкой) have organized the special Center of preparation летного structure where pilots of the first groups intended for " distant business trips " have started to perfect the fighting skill. In the center there were the aviasquadrons completed by planes MiG-21PfM, SM and МиГ-21УМ (УА). Preparation was spent under the program "Caucasus" (so-called 500 exercise), which included working off single and group complex and aerobatics, fighting maneuvering, single and group maneuverable air fights (in structure of pairs, parts and groups of tactical purpose - 6, 8, 10 planes in group) at average, small and extremely small heights. As there passed this preparation, shall not describe is a theme for separate clause for now it is possible to tell that happened on everyone: There were both failures, and accidents (and it is not not enough)... Anyhow, business has been made, and to 1972 have prepared some groups. Before sending to Egypt they were blessed" nowadays with the late, and then still - the Main Marshal of aircraft, the Commander-in-chief of the Air Forces P.S.Kutahov. There was a group on МиГ-25 and some groups on МиГ-21МФ, one of which was based on air base Бенисуэф and covered city and port Alexandria. Descriptions of these fights at us as it is paradoxical (in the West about it are used up volumes of the literature), for the present are under the certain signature stamp, and illumination of those events - a problem of not given publication. If to tell about it it is brief, preparation in the Center has yielded positive results though misses took place also, there were also fighting losses...

    Soon command of the Soviet Air Forces has come to conclusion, that valuable fighting experience is necessary for introducing in all aviaparts. To the decision promoted, besides also occurrence by then in the Air Forces of the USA of special divisions " AGGRESSORS ". In particular, 64-th and 65-th aviasquadrons deployed on air base неллис (state of Nevada), took part in annual doctrines " РЭД ФЛЭГ " (" the Red flag "). These divisions were armed with planes R-5A and Т-38, relatives under the characteristics to МиГ-21, and even painting reminded Soviet planes. In educational air fights they applied tactics, fighting receptions and maneuvers, characteristic to the Soviet fighters.


    The Symbol of 1-st squadron
    So, the decision to create similar division and in the Air Forces of Soviet Union was accepted. For a basis have taken already known Center in Туркмении, armed to this time (1974) By planes MiG-21bis. Two squadrons of the former Center, together with other parts and divisions of maintenance and the control (including division of radio-controlled targets Ла-17), have entered into Base of the Air Forces on check of combat training of front parts истребительной aircraft. Squadrons have been completed by pilots with experience of Vietnam, the Near East or have training preparation in the Center under the program "Caucasus". With them, these experts, it was necessary to compete skill to fighter pilots various авиаполков from all Soviet Union, from time to time visited Turkmen Base. From now on almost twenty years' history Soviet эскадрилий "Aggressor" also begins. Though the name it in one official document does not meet, in a circle of fighter pilots these divisions have christened so.

    The Author of the given publication as pilot MiG-21bis in structure of various полков where at that time served, participated in checks on this air base in 1978, 1980, 1981, 1983. A lot of interesting, a theme for the whole book. If briefly programs of checks were very complex, strained and. Interesting, there was everyone... But at pilots of Base always the class of preparation was the highest and "to be at war" with them it was not simple. In structure of эскадрилий "Aggressors" there were the most experienced pilots. In due course pilots with experience of the Near East became ever less, and them in I build pilots replaced, as a rule, 1-st class and "snipers", and the last was always about 35-40 %.


    The Symbol of 2-nd squadron
    It was updated in due course and technics. In the autumn 1975 the second squadron перевооружилась on МиГ-23М and МиГ-23УБ. Both in the first, and in the second squadrons planes had standard the then светло-gray-blue painting of all glider and dark blue, with a white fringing, onboard numbers. On the left boards of many machines (in area "козырька" a lantern) there were red asterisks in the size 1/6 recognition symbols (03), on the some people - up to six, that spoke about quantity of the radio-controlled targets brought down on the given machine. In 1979 the order of the Commander-in-chief of the Air Forces has begun universal камуфлирование fighting aircraft. It has concerned and planes of Base. Have begun with МиГ-23, painted directly regarding. Colors got out corresponding the Asian landscape: sand, light brown, светло-gray-green ("burnt out" khaki) and green, is closer to khaki, their arrangement was any. Only from below by machines there was a factory painting.

    In 1984 instead of МиГ-23М on arms of the second squadron have acted МиГ-23МЛД. Planes were камуфлированы at a factory. The set of colors approximately corresponded described above, onboard numbers - light blue with a white edging.


    МиГ-29 from the Center of preparation летного structure, Туркмения, 1990

    In 1987 the first aviasquadron has mastered МиГ-29. Раскраска at them there were standard for this type of the plane, onboard numbers - red with a white edging.

    However, by this time there was a problem of following character: aviashelfs were involved in checks on the basis of on fighters, same "local". Therefore to pilots, especially at performance of group maneuverable air fights, it was complex to define - where "", where "another's". For the decision of a problem (not without taking into account experience American авиаэскадрилий "Aggressor") command has made a decision to put on the planes belonging Base, distinctive painting: so-called " коньячные strips " (at МиГ-29 on the top surfaces of wings and a fuselage, and at МиГ-23 - on Kiel) and " the spark mouth " in носовой parts. Besides on vertical plumage of machines onboard numbers in figures of white color (by height 15-20 sm) were written. It was convenient for work on the ground. When on flights on the central technical position 20-30 planes in one number under number on a fuselage (air inlet) - 2-3 machines, and on figures on Kiel are visible only cost, considering as command-dispatching, and engineering items of management are located behind parking, numbers are visible practically all.


    МиГ-23МЛД from the Center of preparation летного structure, Туркмения, 1990


    Under the initiative of pilots and техников Bases there was also an informal symbolics эскадрилий.

    At the first: on the external parties of Kiel the greater figure 1 with a wing (yellow color with a blue fringing), behind this emblem is located from below upwards with скосом back arrow of red color. On the right board, near козырька a lantern, black points and a contour of black color - the leopard in a jump.

    At the second: on the left air inlets - the viking with дубинкой (a helmet - dark blue, horns - red, hair - red, the bottom part of a body brown, top - light brown, дубинка - black), on a helmet номерок 2 (2аэ) - white color.

    With 1988 our "aggressors" had that appearance in what their author in November, 1990 Has photographed

    For the autumn 1991 it was planned переучивание the second squadron for fighters Су-27, their sketches "агрессорской" раскраски were ready also. Transition to new technics before was assumed both in 1989, and in 1990, but economic difficulties inevitably removed terms. That has occured in August, 1991, and then - in December of the same year - the reader knows... Events, certainly, have affected destiny of unique aviation division. All and all have started to divide. The former chief of Base (in the beginning of 80th years) colonel K.P.Morozov became Minister of Defence of Ukraine. The base has passed all over again in structure of Armed forces of the CIS, and then - under jurisdiction of Russia, but to territories of Turkmenistan... About переучивание already and nobody conducts speeches...


    МиГ-29УБ and МиГ-29 (top view) from the Center of preparation летного structure, Туркмения, 1990


    Now means does not suffice to support a corresponding level of preparation of pilots. Many of pilots personally familiar to author have left army, the some people were translated for the further service in the European part of Russia... Communication with present Base is almost lost, and its further destiny appears is not very precise yet. That there here there is a muffled information. The hope is small, that the history Soviet and still is expected, and nowadays - Russian "aggressors" is not ended yet. Probably, they will change a place of the disposition, and the Base will continue the existence already in territory of Russia, and educational fights will pass not above sand the Penalty-кумов, and in the sky above the Volga steppes...

    From mikoyan.by.ru

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-23MLD
    russian MiG-29 agressor
    MIG-23 MLD,

    that machine is Ukranian not russian...

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    Too much "errors" for someone, who claims pictural evidence to proof something!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sens
    Too much "errors" for someone, who claims pictural evidence to proof something!
    Mistakes are a way to learn, i do make mistakes, but the Leopard was the badge worn by the former Soviet Union squadron, that aircraft effectively is an museum in Ukraine, but the Viking and the Leopard badges were worn by the former Soviet Union` agressor squadrons


    The pictures are from mikoyan.by.ru
    Last edited by MiG-23MLD; 23rd April 2006 at 23:25.

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    A MiG-29 Agressor from www.rumodelism.com


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    Had to off-topic for a while.

    The US agressor teams had, in realism, painted their jets (notably A-4s, F-5s, F-14s, F-16s & F/s-18s) in Soviet-style camo patterns and even painted huge Red Stars on the fins (see attached).

    I was curious how come the Soviet/Russian AF did not paint their aggressor aircraft in NATO/US-style camo pattern or even reciprocate by painting NATO markings or Star-&-Bars on those jets? WOW! Imagine a true MiG/SU with US-style markings!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
    I was curious how come the Soviet/Russian AF did not paint their aggressor aircraft in NATO/US-style camo pattern or even reciprocate by painting NATO markings or Star-&-Bars on those jets? WOW! Imagine a true MiG/SU with US-style markings!
    No need to imagine when you know where to look..
    MiG-23UB, 152nd IAP, Ak-Tepe AFB
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by flex297
    No need to imagine when you know where to look..
    MiG-23UB, 152nd IAP, Ak-Tepe AFB
    Wow! Thanks for the pics flex297!

    Somehow, the title and the stars-&-bars doesn't look that 'authentic' or realistic as compared to the Red Star & Bort Numbers painted on the aggressor jets by the Americans!

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    A MiG-29 Agressor

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    IAF MiG-29 Aggressors.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    PAF Combat Commanders School

    "The remaining training establishments are aimed at pilots of markedly differing levels of skill. At the top end of the scale, there is the Combat Commanders' School which is responsible for disseminating advanced fighter tactics and doctrine. This has two subordinate units, specifically the 'Mirage Squadron' (with Mirage 5PAs) and the 'F-6 Squadron' (with F-6s). Instructor staff with the CCS are generally acknowledged to be the 'best of the best' and would also have a war role to fulfil in the event of conflict. "

    "
    When it comes to moving further up the ladder, PAF policy seems to be rather ruthless and it is very much a case of 'up or out'. Those who are adjudged worthy to occupy more senior positions must first negotiate the hurdle of the Combat Commanders' School (CCS). In a perfect world, career officers would ideally attend the CCS after completing 12 years of service - in reality, though, they can go there at any time between nine and 12 years. If they graduate, they can expect to lead a squadron in the rank of Wing Commander. If they fail - and some inevitably do, for the CCS course is exacting - they will make no further progress. "


    PAF - Quality if not Quantity! by Lindsay Peacock
    [Air International, November 1991]

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