More serial numbers accounting for PLA Black Hawk fans lurking out there (yeah, right). 8D
PLA S-70C-2 LH92210 in action.
PLA S-70C-2 LH92209 in action.
One reporter reports (duh) PLA S-70C-2 #92201 is alive.
"They carry a lifeline through the air
By China Daily reporter Wang Xu and special correspondent Fan Tao (China Daily)
Updated: 2008-05-22 08:52"
[Landing on a curvy hill in Bei Chuan County looks tricky, IMO.]
BTW, the HKGFS (Hong Kong Government Flying Service) deploys a fixed wing SAR aircraft and a Super Puma helo to Si Chuan Province.
The Super Puma has a belly-hook to carry a sling of supplies, and unlike Chinese military heloes, the Super Puma has a sprayer with 16 nozzles, which can spray disinfectants onto ruins that are covering animal, human, and plant remains.
Last edited by Don Chan; 4th June 2008 at 10:06.
The good old days: photo, dated November 1985, of a PLAAF Y-8A transporting a PLA S-70C.
what sort of time and money required to bring these aircraft to as-new? more than a new build?
I'm with flex297. After USSR parted company, 1960, they took every techno-aid with them, forcing PRC to reverse everything, kitchen sink to MiG. Took forever. US 707 deal saw 1 go into SAIC to be dissected: JT3D-3B was illicitly reversed in Shanghai: took forever...found no Customer. Pattern 707 re-assembled and put into service. Open door, 1978, but France already there: Frelon (Z-8), then Dauphin (Z-9). MDC MD82 was next, then reheated Spey: all legitimately licenced.
The military line from Lavi into J-10 was not, but neither was it wholly illicit: US' aim till 1989, Tian An Man Sq., was to sustain the freeze between PRC and USSR, while supporting Taiwan. Fine line, Israel as useful cut-out. Pakistan on K-8, same. UTC licenced S-70 within UH-60 FMS sale deal; Lockheed same, shifting 3 L-100 into the Postal/Cargo carrier, but State Council cut off $ for both. Much better to barter than cheat. Embraer, Airbus happy to licence and counter-trade; PRC industry happy to build bits, for local consumption and $-export. Boeing helped Xaanxi improve An-12/Y-8, and Xian An-24/Y-7, but Users wanted their Boeings, Pratts, Alberts and choppers factory-shrink-wrapped, not knocked off.
] the uh60 are still alive because US still supplies the
] spare parts to the chinese using underground channel.
Possible... The Chinese Black Hawks flown by, for example, the PLA in China, and the ROCN in Taiwan, are S-70s that might be treated as civilian or commercial, and not as the militarised designation UH-60...
And like the US aircraft in Iran, the PLA has all the S-70 technical manuals and tools needed for maintenance.
"China Says U.S. Wouldn’t Sell Helicopter Parts Needed in Relief"
March 21, 2010, 6:22 AM EDT
March 21 (Bloomberg) -- China was forced to buy helicopter parts needed for rescue work after the 2008 Sichuan earthquake from Russia because of U.S. restrictions on technology exports, the country’s commerce minister said today.
Chen Deming said he contacted the U.S. Commerce Department on buying helicopter engines to aid rescue efforts after the Sichuan earthquake in 2008, but was told to wait for permission from the defense ministry. He never heard back, and China bought Russian engines instead.
I have one in a different camo pattern...
PLA S-70C-2 Black Hawk accidents/crashes. To be blunt, the article claims four crashes:
16 June 1991:
S-70C-2 Black Hawk.
Army aviation, PLA.
1 April 1989:
S-70C-2 Black Hawk. 5626.
Army aviation, PLA.
27 May 1988:
S-70C-2 Black Hawk.
2nd Regiment, testing and training base, army aviation, PLA.
8 October 1987:
S-70C-2 Black Hawk. 831. C/N 70831.
2nd Group, Air Lift Regiment, Wu Lu Mu Qi (Urumqi) command, Lan Zhou AF, PLAAF, based in Xin Jiang.
Last edited by Don Chan; 7th April 2010 at 14:35.
Chicom Black Hawks tasked with SAR. Photos taken on or before 2010/08/16, but the serial number on the tail boom is greyed out. 8(
Undated photo of three HKGFS Black Hawks.
Article dated 2010/06/30, about the Chicom Black Hawk that crashed on 1987/10/08.
Photos dated 2011/11/14, of PLA Black Hawk heloes of Cheng Du military district.
Difficult to read S/Ns though.
Article dated 2012-06-26, with undated photos of PLA Black Hawks, although the text mentions they were delivering flood victims on May 18.
Article is an interview with PLA, Cheng Du military district, 3rd Group, CO, who's flown them for 25 years, and claims his brigade has about 10 active Black Hawks.
Chinese article dated 2013-01-21.
I know this is lag, but just noticed the WZ-19 was escorted by a white Chinese Black Hawk.
Last edited by Don Chan; 29th January 2013 at 09:25. Reason: My 3,100th post. 8D
salute to the good people, the PLA soldiers and in this particular thread, the manufacturer and designers of the S-70C-2 helicopters served in the 512 Sichuan earthquake. S-70C-2 is a very reliable helicopter and always the first choice in executing high altitude rescue and disaster relief missions in China.
Hope the US government will one day lift the embargo on S-70s and its successors.
Btw PLA has a lot of different options now.
They can opt to reverse engineer the S92 they have with Chinese maritime search and rescue or choose to adopt more AS332L1 or AS532 SUPER PUMAs currently in service with PLA.
The new Z-15/EC175 is another option PLA can use to replace the aging Bloack Hawks.
Chinese Z8( Super Puma) is about the same size of the Mi-171, and a high altitude version was immediately developed after the Sichuan earthquake. But i dont think many Z8s have been deployed in Chengdu Military District(where we need high altitude helicopters the most) yet. i bet the testing & evaluation process is not over.
Reverse engineering the S92 is simply not an option. Actually after the Sichuan earthquake, the US government allowed Sikorsky to supply S-70C-2 parts to its Chinese client. In fact, IIRC, Sikorsky used photos of one PLA S-70C-2 executing disaster relief missions as a publicity commercial on magazines, i've been looking for that pic for a long time but cant find it anymore. Under the table, the Chinese government seems to hold good relations with American arms producers, GE, Boeing, Sikorsky...Money and market just beat ideology there.
BTW the military version is already confirmed. Turbomeca is working with the chinese to develop a new version of the Ardiden engine.
Re: Z-15/EC175 "6-ton" Development (New CMH)
Heli-Expo 2010: Turbomeca working on alternative engine for Chinese EC175
February 20, 2010
Turbomeca is working with Chinese manufacturer AVIC on an alternative engine for the EC175/Z-15 helicopter.
Speaking on the eve of Heli-Expo in Houston, CEO Pierre Fabre told reporters that the company was working with the Chinese on a development of its Ardiden engine, called the WZ-16. The WZ-16 will be a derivative of the Ardiden 3 which is also going to be fitted to the Kamov Ka-62.
The Ardiden engine is already flying in the HAL Dhruv, Advanced Light Helicopter, but the uprated versions, will be capable of producing 1,800-2,000 shp, making them ideal for six-eight tonne helicopters.
It follows the first flight ceremony of the EC175 in Marseille back in December in which Eurocopter CEO Lutz Bertling revealed that the Chinese were looking to an alternative powerplant to that being used in the EC175, the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C. Fabre said he was confident of achieving a 10-15 % improvement in fuel burn on the Canadian engine.
The company revealed engine sales had dipped by 15 % selling 300 fewer engines in 2009 compared to 2008. The company was spending 11 % of its turnover on research and development and working on reducing the rate of in-flight shut-downs with the aim by 40 % by 2016.
Fabre said he was looking to Asia for increased sales in the next 30 years, pointing that China only has around 600 helicopters but could see equal the 6000 or so helicopters operating in the United States in the next three decades. In 2009 60 of engines were to replace old engines, with 40 % new sales, Fabre believes that by 2039, 60 % of sales would be for new engines.
By Tony Osborne - Rotorhub.com Editorial Team
Also PLA already operates AS532s and purchasing more would be more logical than servicing decades old S-70
Seriously, the Ya An Earthquake in Si Chuan Province, PRC, on 20 April 2013 is another chance for military aviation fans to gawk at the PLA Black Hawk heloes that keep on going and going.
For example, here's a screen cap of the white Black Hawk LH92200.
When did China buy the Cougar?
Photos dated on or before 22 April 2013.
PLA Black Hawks at Ya An Earthquake, Si Chuan Province.
Saw footage of Blackhawks during the earthquake rescue coverage. Did a double-take but put it down to archival news footage (which didn't really make sense to use as I thought at the same time). Learn something new every day.
Post-quake rescue operations expose China's military aircraft weaknesses
Military enthusiasts are disappointed China relies on US and Russian aircraft in post-earthquake operations rather than home-made hardware
Wednesday, 24 April, 2013, 4:46am
The widespread use of US- and Russian-made helicopters during rescue missions in the quake zone in Sichuan's Yaan city has again exposed weaknesses in China's home-made rescue aircraft.
Military analysts said domestic-made rescue helicopters lack the ability to carry heavy loads and are less capable at handling extreme weather conditions. Some chalk the disparity up to Beijing's focus on the development of advanced fighter jets and other general-purpose planes.
At this point, quake victims in the worst-hit Lushan county may find it a familiar sight to see US-made Sikorsky Black Hawks, Russian Mi-17 series helicopters and Moscow's Ilyushin Il-76TD cargo planes flying overhead after Saturday's magnitude 7 quake.
Mainland military enthusiasts said they were disappointed when China Central Television reported that the first two helicopters sent to Lushan were a Black Hawk and Mi-17. Some asked when China would make its own "Black Hawk", and why the most-advanced home-made armed helicopter, the WZ-10, and the military's Y-20 cargo plane weren't used in rescue work.
"China doesn't yet have enough medium-lift helicopters or cargo planes, as our research and development efforts on those two types of aircraft are still in progress," said Xu Guangyu , a former general and senior researcher at the Beijing-based China Arms Control and Disarmament Association.
He said the Chinese air force sent home-made WZ-9 and WZ-8 armed helicopters to assist in the rescue operations, but neither is able to play an important role because of their limited capacity and capabilities.
"The US' [Black Hawk] helicopters were sent to the front line to handle immediate rescue efforts because of their heavy-load capacity, and suitability for highlands and extreme weather conditions," Xu said.
The People's Liberation Army Air Force's Chengdu Military Command said they sent at least 10 helicopters to disaster areas on Saturday, and several dozen were on standby.
All of them were either Black Hawks or Mi-17 aircraft, the Chengdu -based West China City Daily quoted a commander as saying.
"The service life of the Black Hawks is almost up, as all of them have flown nearly 30 years," said Antony Wong Dong of the Macau-based International Military Association.
"The widespread use of US and Russian helicopters in quake rescue and relief efforts indicates that Beijing has made fighter jets and other weapons its priorities in its military modernisation," Wong said.
China spent about US$150 million to buy 24 medium-lift utility S-70C Black Hawk helicopters and related parts from the US-based Sikorsky Aircraft Corp in 1984, according to a report by the China Youth Daily that said China still has 20 of the aircraft.
"We know our weaknesses in aircraft technology, especially with multi-role armed helicopters, but so far we can focus only on utility helicopters, which can be used in coastal, eastern and southern areas," Xu said.
And slowman has said himself in the North Korean thread that South Korea can't take on the North without the US's help...
Yeah and Obama was said to be furious when China landed a rescue and relief team in Haiti after the earthquake before any American team arrived.
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