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Thread: Last Martin Baltimore?

  1. #1
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    Last Martin Baltimore?

    I was just having a lok through the 1000aircraftphotos site and came accross this picture of a natural metal finished Martin Baltimore,apparently photographed outside the Martin plant. In the background you can see a B57 Canberra,so this aircraft must've survived well into the 50's.Does anyone know the identity of this example or what became of it?

    http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2686L.jpg
    "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease." Sergei Sikorsky

  2. #2
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    There is a museum at the martin Airport in Baltimore with extensive martin archieves...(go figure). They may know. Hopefully it's tucked away somewhere...not that I'm holding my breath.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  3. #3
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    I'm kind of thinking that the airplane in the background is a Marauder with no props. The airplane looks too tall for a B-57. The only other thing I can think of is maybe an Arado Ar234 but I have no idea why Martin would have one at their plant.

    I'm going with a Marauder and this not being a surviving Baltimore. I think Tallichet has one though. Don't know anything else about it though. Rob Rohr probably does.

    Ryan

  4. #4
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    Marauder

    Yes, I'm going with Marauder because of the overall look of the fuselage and the shape of the engine cowling.

    I seem to recall an experimental Marauder with fore/aft main gear on the fuselage centreline with small outriggers where the main gear had been located. I wonder if that is the aircraft we are see in the background.

    Chris

  5. #5
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    Er, guys, it has B-57 intake cones. It is also too low to be an Arado and besides why would Martin have one of them when the might, perhaps, have the B-57?

  6. #6
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    That's a standard B26 in the background, the raised areas on the top of the cowlings would confirm that, along with the profile of the fuselage. There is no propellor fitted to the starboard engine, which is why it looks like a jet intake. I suspect the undercarriage is normal rather than fore and aft on the centreline, because the angle we're looking at the aeroplane from (45-50 degrees back from the centreline?) would still give significant visual spacing of the port and starboard main legs. So I'm going with it being a standard B26, which dates the photo as early 1940's.

    Very interested about Ryan's comment that David Tallichet may have a Baltimore... I've wondered for some time whether any Baltimores or Marylands may still be out in the Libyan desert, covered by drifting sand...

  7. #7
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    Oh come on, no way is that a post-war photo.

    Look at the window on the Marauder as well !!!!!!!!

  8. #8
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    Come and think of it - aren't the Martin products terribly underrepresented when it comes to surviving airframes? No Baltimores that i know of, one Marlin and Mariner each... Pretty sad really.
    Regards,

    Arthur
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
    Bertrand Russell

  9. #9
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    Blimey,it IS a Marauder! I looked at it several times before I posted the query last night and it passed as a B57 every time! Back to the recognition books with me. Thanks guys,sorry about the confusion. Interesting to hear that someone may have a surviving Baltimore though...
    "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease." Sergei Sikorsky

  10. #10
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    Ant,

    I think Ryan is more referring to a Marauder than a Baltimore (unfortunately) but I would like to be proven wrong of course. Tallichet sold his flyable Marauder to Kermit Weeks some years ago, I believe he has a static one under restoration IIRC.

    Cheers

    Cees

  11. #11
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    from one who was there

    Well my pal in Baltimmore who worked there for many years tells me ..

    "That's the "Baltimore" on the apron, probably just rolled out of "C" Building on the right where it was assembled. At the extreme right, just under the left wing, is a B-26 with the cowling in it's original small-airscoop configuration. I'd say this pic was taken about 1939. The apron is bounded on three sides by "A", "B" and "C" Buildings.

    The high-bay building behind the a/c is "B" building, also called the "Navy Building". It was erected specifically for the manufacture of the PBM flying boat patrol bombers. "A" building (not shown) was the first building erected on the site in 1929. "

    Hope this helps clarify the situation ...go4b17

  12. #12
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    Come and think of it - aren't the Martin products terribly underrepresented when it comes to surviving airframes? No Baltimores that i know of, one Marlin and Mariner each... Pretty sad really.
    Still there's two Mars working, so in 'sheer volume' (choose: space occupied or noise made ) it's a bit better! But yes, Martin is very under represented.

    I don't believe any Baltimores survived the war, and none found their way into any form of preservation. While Tallichet had a lot of very interesting and unusual types, I don't recall a Baltimore ever being one of them. If someone wants to prove me wrong, I'd be delighted - but it needs the real thing or a photo of it please... Best chance is Steve's 'under the sand' hypothesis.

    Cheers
    James K

    Looking and thinking...
    Vintage Aero Writer: Blog & Details

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDK
    ............Best chance is Steve's 'under the sand' hypothesis.

    Cheers
    Well, if " up to 30 airframes " can still exist on an old German airfield in the libyan desert (apparently Sat. pics have been seen to prove), then one or more other aircraft existing is a distinct possibility, so hopefully a Baltimore will rise up out of the desert in the future.

    Martin
    Wide open & turning left

  14. #14
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    Especially given the Libyan leadership's more receptive stance towards the west these days...

    My theory has always been that when aircraft come down for whatever reason, they either get recovered or left, dependent usually on the terrain and conditions at the time. Recent years have seen - and still are seeing - some wonderful finds coming out of Russia, Papua New Guinea, northern Norway, Greenland etc, all of which are places where recovery would have been either impossible or impracticable during the war. Even if you made comparitively easy treks up many British hillsides in recent years, you'd have come across substantial sections of rare or extinct aeroplanes - Mickle Fell Stirling, Beaufighter tail on Aran Fawddwy, Whitley wings up on Scottish Moors.

    The desert is another such place - we all know the story of the B24 'Lady Be Good' which was discovered in the desert some 15 (?) years after its disappearance, and when you consider the amount of aircraft which were used in that conflict, well I really cannot believe that there's nothing out there. Okay, the local bedouin tribes will have had sixty years of picking the bits off any exposed airframes, but I'm convinced there's still a lot to find out there. Baltimores, Wellingtons, Marylands, Kittyhawks, Beaufighters, Hurricanes, Ju52s, Ju87s, Bf109's...

    (climbs off hobby horse...)

  15. #15
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    Last Baltimore

    Martin Aircraft 1909-1960 by Breihan/Piet/Mason carries on page 131 a photo stated as being the last A30 built (finished in grey & white)-see attachment (if I've managed to do it right).The book also comments that
    (1)The last RAF use was in Kenya in 1948-used on locust control.

    (2)BuAer 09804 was used until 1946 on airfoil trials before going to
    a Baltimore school.

    (3)No Baltimore survives to this day.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveYoung
    Especially given the Libyan leadership's more receptive stance towards the west these days...

    My theory has always been that when aircraft come down for whatever reason, they either get recovered or left, dependent usually on the terrain and conditions at the time. Recent years have seen - and still are seeing - some wonderful finds coming out of Russia, Papua New Guinea, northern Norway, Greenland etc, all of which are places where recovery would have been either impossible or impracticable during the war. Even if you made comparitively easy treks up many British hillsides in recent years, you'd have come across substantial sections of rare or extinct aeroplanes - Mickle Fell Stirling, Beaufighter tail on Aran Fawddwy, Whitley wings up on Scottish Moors.

    The desert is another such place - we all know the story of the B24 'Lady Be Good' which was discovered in the desert some 15 (?) years after its disappearance, and when you consider the amount of aircraft which were used in that conflict, well I really cannot believe that there's nothing out there. Okay, the local bedouin tribes will have had sixty years of picking the bits off any exposed airframes, but I'm convinced there's still a lot to find out there. Baltimores, Wellingtons, Marylands, Kittyhawks, Beaufighters, Hurricanes, Ju52s, Ju87s, Bf109's...

    (climbs off hobby horse...)

    Steve,

    As long as they haven't gone the same road as the recent HP Hermes expedition where a few years earlier the wreck had been smelted on site by making a bonfire out of the fuselage. Things do turn up all the time.

    As recent as last weekend I found out that a very substantial tailsection of "the other" bomber was found.

    More about that later when the time is right

    I agree fully with JDK that while a lot of people are discussing things, others are actually recovering airframes (not intended as an insult but more as a fact).

    Cheers

    Cees

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