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Thread: Indian Submarine Competition

  1. #1
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    Indian Submarine Competition

    Now theres going to be a submarine competition it seems . Wouldn't be bad to have the HDW. Is the on on offer the latest one? Its supposed to be better than the Scorpene though they say the scorpene has its strong points. Thats y the Indians wanted a hybrid of French and German design. Any chance of that happening. Strong points of both the subs?



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    http://www.spacewar.com/2004/041007195218.bu4b7xb1.html

    BERLIN (AFP) Oct 07, 2004
    France and Germany are locked in a battle to win a contract to sell six submarines to India, the German financial newspaper Handelsblatt said Friday, citing German political and industrial sources.
    Berlin is backing the HDW consortium's bid, though its French rival DCN was a hot favourite, according to the newspaper in its Friday edition, which says Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder wanted to raise the deal with the Indian government.

    After a meeting in New Delhi with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Schroeder said Thursday the two countries aimed to double trade over a five-year period from the current annual level of five billion euros (some 6.15 billion dollars).

    They said science and technology would be the new focus of their strategic partnership.

    The two countries also agreed on annual high-level exchanges and said they would continue to support each other's campaigns for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council.

    Schroeder, accompanied by a business and political delegation, arrived in India Wednesday on the first leg of a four-nation tour aimed at bolstering ties with Asia.
    Last edited by xanadu; 15th October 2004 at 21:14.

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    Here's news on the other candidate:


    First picture of Lada/Amur class... Sankt Petersburg, probably for the Baltic fleet.

    The oceans await our "Lada"
    Vladimir GUNDAROV, the "Red Star".

    Already during October at the plant "admiralty shipyards" in the northern capital will pass the solemn ceremony of descent to the water of a new Russian diesel-electric submarine (SSK)"Saint Petersburg" of project 677 "Lada". On this reported the design project leader OF TSKB MT. "Rubin" Igor Spasskiy, association of which developed the design of this submarine.

    "Saint Petersburg" - the first submarine is not only of a new project. It opens the line SSK of the fourth generation. Its generation, in the essence, breakthrough in the technical and economic characteristics and technology. In it are realized more than hundred new scientific and design solutions. Radio-electronic armament, boat equipment and materials - last word of science and technology. In the opinion of the creators of submarine, it is the pilot project of all SSK, which will be constructed in the new century.

    Basic difference in the energy-armament of submarine - the so-called"hydrogen small batteries". This is main power plant (GEU) of the locked type, because of which in comparison with the traditional storage batteriesof diesel-electric submarines several times is increased theindependence.

    However, Russian designers thirty a (!) years ago proposed GEU with the electrochemical generator (EKHG). Hydrogen and oxygen were used as the fuel cells in it. The submarine S -273 of project 613 they re-equipped on to project 6133 "Katran". If usual boats at binodal speed without the booster charge could befound under water not more than four days, that with the use EKHG period increased to the month. The creation of diesels became the second direction in the designdevelopments, working on the closed cycle. Project 615 (Quebec) with the united engine, personified in the metal even in the middle of past century, it became unique in entire peace. But because of the frequent fires this submarine submariners themselves called it "cigarette lighter".

    The project originators of "Saint Petersburg" guarantee, what safety of operation by their GEU - by an order is higher. Head developer of propulsive systems with EKHG - special design bureauof boiler construction. Drawing on experience of Ural electrochemical combine and NPO "energy"on the creation EKHG for the automatic spacecraft, SKB developed engine for the submarines "crystal -20", in which is used oxygen and hydrogen.

    New submarine possesses tactical-technical elements, which, on the assertion of draftees, they will allow into two, and that three times to exceed on the combat effectiveness of thesubmarine of the third generation. New construction distinguishes the high degree of the automation ofthe processes of centralized control of all boat systems and weaponfrom the operator panels, located in primary command post. The power of rocket- torpedo complex is increased. "Saint Petersburg" they will arm with new antiship missile complex KLUB- S with the new automated information system for control ofweapon. New inertial navigation complex will be established. Hydroacoustic complex is also built on the new element base and withthe newest software. In the nose extremity highly sensitive hydrophone antenna is placed. Fundamentally new universal multifunctional periscope is established, not penetrating into the durable housing. Is inculcated the new system of the method of radio-information fromthe coast in the underwater position.

    The level of underwater noise is reduced by more than 30 decibels, and the level of the radiated acoustic power - is more than into thousands of times! Thus, the noisiness of new boat will be practically approximating the background values of sea. Consequently, on the reticence it must exceed all submarines, built thus far not only, but also somewhere abroad.

    Tactical-technical elements of the submarine of project 677 of"harmony"

    Quantity of torpedo tubes, unit. - 6.
    Above-water (normal) the water-ism
    shcheniye, me - 2.350.
    Length, m - 73.8.
    Width (diameter of durable housing), m - 9.9.
    Speed of complete underwater running, knots. - 20.
    Distance of underwater floating with the economic speed, miles - 400.
    Crew, man. - 52.
    (tactical-technical elements of submarine they are undertaken from the official site FGUP "admiralty shipyards").
    From http://www.redstar.ru/2004/10/09_10/1_01.html

    Hmm she seems to lack the diving planes on her sail...

  3. #3
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    were people not saying the contract for 6 Scorpenes was a done deal, now there is a "competition".....what gives!?

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    Nothing is a done deal until the signing ceremony. Delays imposed by financial issues always given time for challengers to come up with counter-offers.

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    Indian Submarine Competition:

    Wasn't there suppose to be an indiginous and ingenious SSBN
    thingy going in the South Asia region? What's happening with it? Is this it ? Is the
    project still in its project stages or is it about to be launched?

    Damn... Can't wait! Am simply not the patient kind.


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    hmmm, it's a 6,000t nuclear sub, called ATV (advanced Technology vessel)by them. But it's quite secretive and no-one (I even think the designers included) knows what it'll become... They don't even know whether to build an SSBN or SSN.

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    Severodvinsk, I think its quite apparent even to stupid rice eating indian designers that if you want to play with the big boys in the deep pond, a SSN is no longer enough. every modern SSN is also a SSGN and thats what the ATV will be when it appears.

    India doesnt have a SLBM program, so it cannot be a SSBN obviously.

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    That has indeed been my idea, yet, still there are many reports on SSBN type of vessel and of course about the testing of some kind of nuke from an Indian ship (I think it was a Dhanush or something like that). It was from a surface ship,and it was short-ranged in my opinion. Yet, they keep saying stuff like that...

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    I put my money on the Severodvinsk class, as i believe its gonna resemble it the most and maybe as like the MKI programme of the IAF this could be the other MKI programm for the Indian Navy .... and yes it has got a decent 8 cell VLS too for land attack and thats petty comfortable..... but I wud definetely love to have a SSBN with that Topols blasting from underneath the sea so as to keep anyone having any unwanted dreams abt the IOR ....

    and what the heel is the Gov doing with the Scorpene, even the 6 no is small and now theyr are delaying it, I wud say for a start a 8 sub is needed so that 3 is built in France and the rest in India before 2010 as that wud agument the fleet and absorb the decomissioning of the subs past 2010.


    and a pic of the lada from their site ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Severodvinsk
    That has indeed been my idea, yet, still there are many reports on SSBN type of vessel and of course about the testing of some kind of nuke from an Indian ship (I think it was a Dhanush or something like that). It was from a surface ship,and it was short-ranged in my opinion. Yet, they keep saying stuff like that...
    here it is......


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    Wooaw thanks, I never even expected to find a picture of that... Although it's not a good missile for a submarine, there the supports can't move away when the missile ignites...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Severodvinsk
    Wooaw thanks, I never even expected to find a picture of that... Although it's not a good missile for a submarine, there the supports can't move away when the missile ignites...
    This type of launch system has been thought about by other navies, and some countries did consider it but due (uknown for me) problems they might encounter they never bothered. For India its a way to have a nuclear deterent in each section of the forces. maybe when it becomes more advanced they will go the USN/RN etc etc way. till then cheap and cheerful it is.

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    Well I SUPPOSE the problems were: stresses on the ship's hull and of course the short range of this type of missiles. A few hundred kilometers is just too few to take the risk. They have to come within range of certain patrol forces and land-based aircraft. Quite a waste if you ask me.
    Maybe some other problems too...

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    And yeas am not particularly enthusiastic abt that Dhanush, i supose it was just a TD else I just don see any meaniful juse for thse 250-350 Km range missile being rolled out from the Helo hanged and firing, thats simple nonsense, if i am a bit frank abt that. But a more matued one I wad say is to have atleast 500Km range one fro which this TD is developed and have them in silos that wud be a better one .... and such a solution for now coz we dont have SSBN to fire it from the seas, so till that come a solution of that kind wont be a bad idea, but then IN don have the luxuary of sparing ships to dothat, so that Danush can go silent and for now concentrate on longer range of the Klub series of land attack, I gues a bit more lenth of the land attack version of the Klub to make it equal with that oif the 3-stage AShM wud mean that it will have atleast a 1000Km in range. And that I saw will cover up allmost what Indian military plannes wud like to have within their naval missile arsenal.

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    what is the status on the 2nd amur being built (for export)?

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    Yes there was this news of 2nd Amur being constructed for a foreign coustomer (read India ) having capabilities similar to the Lada Class , India was offered a Hump Back Amur capable of Carrying 4 Brahmos Missile ( source Naval Forces ) , But stability seems to be an Issue or call it Doubt.

    The Dhanush Missile being launched there is basicly a TD , to check out if Prithivi like missile can be fired from a moving/stationary ship , Stabilised Launcher and Guidance over Sea was tested( they had one faliur too , where the missile just plunge in to the sea few minutes after the launch , Guidance Issue ) , This particular missile was liquid fuelled and had a range of 350 Km ,
    What is being developed is a Solid Fuelled Pritivi Missile with a 1 meter Dia , and having a range of 550 km, They if i recall it tested a airforce version of it , Prithivi is a unquie missile , because of its wings etc , at optimum height it can glide up to 100 Km without power ( no ignition , one can stop and start ignition in a liquid fuel missile , this being its greatest advantage ) , multi point/way guidance and its manuverobility and supersonic speed ( will make it difficult for Patriot like ABM to intercept ) and its accuracy make it a lethal missile , also the pay load factor is to be increased from the present 500 kg to 750 Kg for a solid fuel missile . sub deck launcher and folded wings etc are being developed , Initial Plan was to have a Dhanush missile on the first P-15A destroyer , lets see if they still hold ture ie if they could develop all the system and subsystem in 3 years

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    Given the strategic and tactical situation the IN is facing I wonder why there is emphasis on a long range ASuW capability. Few if any possible opponents can match the surface strike power of an IN carrier battle group supported by long range aviation units and strong surface combatants. This force is strong enough to deal with any surface threat in the region.

    However many nations are equipped with modern SSKs that could be used to interdict shipping to India or an Indian surface battle group. So the main focsu should be a hunter submarine. An SSN would be the best, but as those are not available an AIP SSK seems the best choice. In that case my choice would be the german U214.

    If you want to carry huge missiles then go for a land attack cruise missile.
    Member of ACIG

    an unnamed Luftwaffe officer:"Typhoon is a warm weather plane. If you want to be operational at -20°C you have to deploy the F-4F."

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    Given the strategic and tactical situation the IN is facing I wonder why there is emphasis on a long range ASuW capability.
    its because the ASuW missiles all have secondary land attack capability brahmos,klub etc.

    Yes there was this news of 2nd Amur being constructed for a foreign coustomer (read India ) having capabilities similar to the Lada Class , India was offered a Hump Back Amur capable of Carrying 4 Brahmos Missile ( source Naval Forces ) , But stability seems to be an Issue or call it Doubt.
    like to status of its construction right know, from what i last read the shipyard was building it as private initiative and no foregin nation had expressed intrest in it. I was betting the russian navy will end up being or will be turned into test vessel of some sort.


    Initial Plan was to have a Dhanush missile on the first P-15A destroyer , lets see if they still hold ture ie if they could develop all the system and subsystem in 3 years
    I believe the israelis are currently also working on a naval version of LoRA.

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    http://www.naval-technology.com/



    U212 / U214 ATTACK SUBMARINES, GERMANY
    The U212 submarine is capable of long-distance submerged passage to the area of operation. The German Navy has ordered four of the submarines. The Type 212 is being constructed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW) of Kiel and Thyssen Nordseewerke GmbH (TNSW) of Enden. HDW is responsible for the bow sections and TNSW for the stern section. HDW is assembling the first and third vessels, TNSW the second and fourth. U31, the first of class, began sea trials in April 2003 and it is scheduled to be commissioned by the end of 2004. The second, U32, was named in December 2003 and is planned to be handed over in May 2005.

    Two U212 submarines are being built by Fincantieri for the Italian Navy. The first, S526 Salvatore Todaro, was launched in November 2003 and will commission in 2005. The second will commission in 2006.

    COMMAND AND WEAPONS CONTROL SYSTEM

    The Type 212 is equipped with a highly integrated Command & Weapons Control System which interfaces with sensors, weapons and navigation system. The system is based on a high-performance databus and a distributed computer system, the Basic Command & Weapons Control System (Basic CWCS) supplied by Konsberg Defence & Aerospace of Norway under the trade name MSI-90U.

    TORPEDOES

    There are six torpedo tubes in two groups of three. Type 212 is equipped with a water ram expulsion system for torpedo launch. The submarine is equipped with the DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo weapon system from STN Atlas Elektronik.

    COUNTERMEASURES

    EADS Systems & Defence Electronics and Thales Defence Ltd have been awarded a contract to develop the FL1800U electronic warfare system for the German and Italian navies' U212 submarines. The 1800U is a submarine version of the FL1800 S-II which is in service on the Brandenburg and Bremen class frigates.

    A consortium led by STN ATLAS Elektronik and Allied Signal ELAC is responsible for the development of the TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system. TAU 2000 has four launch containers, each with up to ten discharge tubes equipped with effectors. The effectors are small underwater vehicles, similar in appearance to a torpedo. The effectors are jammers and decoys with hydrophones and acoustic emitters. Multiple effectors are deployed in order to counter torpedoes in re-attack mode.

    SENSORS

    The submarine is equipped with an integrated DBQS sonar system which has: cylindrical array for passive medium-frequency detection; a TAS-3 low-frequency towed array sonar; FAS-3 flank array sonar for low/medium-frequency detection; passive ranging sonar; and hostile sonar intercept system. The active high-frequency mine detection sonar is the STN Atlas Elektronik MOA 3070.

    The search periscope is the Zeiss Optronik SERO 14 with optical rangefinder, thermal imager and global positioning system. The Zeiss SERO 15 attack periscope is equipped with laser rangefinder.

    PROPULSION

    The propulsion system combines a conventional system consisting of a diesel generator with a lead acid battery, and an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, used for silent slow cruising, with a fuel cell equipped with oxygen and hydrogen storage. The system consists of nine PEM (polymer electrolyte membrane) fuel cells, providing between 30 and 50kW each.

    For higher speeds, connection is made to the high-performance lead acid battery. An MTU 16 V- 396 diesel engine powers the generator from Piller GmbH for charging the battery installed on the lower of the two decks at the forward section of the submarine. The diesel generator plant is mounted on a swinging deck platform with double elastic mounts for noise and vibration isolation. The propeller motor is directly coupled to the seven-bladed screwback propeller.

    TYPE 214

    HDW is developing the Type 214 submarine, which is a further improvement on the Type 212. The Greek Navy has ordered three Type 214 submarines. The first, Papanikolis (S120), was built at the HDW Kiel shipyard and was launched in April 2004; it is scheduled for delivery in 2005. Hellenic Shipyards will build the second (Pipinos S121) and third (Matrozos 122) vessels at Skaramanga, for commission in 2008-09. Hellenic Shipyards was acquired by HDW in May 2002. A fourth vessel was ordered by Greece in June 2002.

    South Korea has also ordered three Type 214, to enter service in 2007, 2008 and 2009. These will be built by Hyundai Heavy Industries.

    The Type 214 will have an increased diving depth of over 400m, due to improvements in the pressure hull materials. Hull length is 65m and displacement 1,700t. Four of the eight torpedo tubes will be capable of firing missiles.

    Type 214 submarines for the Hellenic Navy will be armed with the WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedo. The Black Shark is a dual purpose, wire-guided torpedo which is fitted with Astra active / passive acoustic head and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system. It has an electrical propulsion system based on a silver oxide and aluminium battery.

    Performance of the AIP system has been increased with two Siemens PEM fuel cells which produce 120kW per module and will give the submarine an underwater endurance of two weeks. A hull shape which has been further optimised for hydrodynamic and stealth characteristics and a low noise propeller combine to decrease the submarine's acoustic signature.

    The Integrated Sensor Underwater System ISUS 90, from STN ATLAS Elektronik integrates all sensors, command and control functions on board the submarine. BAE Systems provides the Link 11 tactical data link. The sensor suite of the U214 submarine consists of the sonar systems, an attack periscope and an optronic mast. The submarine's electronic support measures system and Global Positioning System sensors are also installed on the optronic mast.


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    SSK SCORPENE ATTACK SUBMARINE
    The Scorpene submarine has been jointly developed by DCN of France and Izar (formerly Bazan) of Spain. Two Scorpene submarines have been ordered by Chile. The vessels will replace two Oberon Class submarines which were retired in 1998 and 2003. The first, O'Higgins, built at DCN shipyard in Cherbourg, was launched in November 2003 and is scheduled for delivery by the end of 2004. The second, Carerra, is being built at Izar's Cartagena shipyard in Spain and will be delivered in 2006.

    The Royal Malaysian Navy placed a contract for two Scorpene submarines in June 2002. The vessels are to enter service in 2007 and 2008. As with the vessels for Chile, the first will be built in France by DCN, the second by Izar in Spain.

    France and India are to sign an agreement to build six Scorpene submarines in India, subject to final approval by the Indian CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security). The submarines will be built at the state-owned Mazagon dockyard in Bombay, with technical assistance and equipment from French companies DCN and Thales. The submarines are to be delivered between 2010 and 2015. As part of the deal, the submarines would be armed with EADS SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles.

    SCORPENE FOR THE CHILEAN NAVY
    The 1500t Scorpene, built for the Chilean Navy, has a length of 66.4m. The two vessels are being equipped with four diesel generators which provide more than 2,500kW and use GM synchronous motors with permanent magnets.

    The Chilean Scorpene will have a hull-mounted medium frequency active/passive sonar. The vessels will be armed with WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes. The Black Shark is a dual purpose, wire-guided torpedo which is fitted with Astra active/passive acoustic head and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system. It has an electrical propulsion system based on a silver oxide and aluminium battery. Black Shark will also arm the two Scorpene vessels for the Royal Malaysian Navy.

    The six torpedo tubes will be capable of firing SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, which have a range of 50km, but will not initially be carried. The vessels will be equipped with EDO Reconnaissance Systems AR-900 electronic support measures/direction-finding (ESM/DF) system.

    WEAPONS SYSTEMS
    Scorpene is equipped with six bow-located 21in torpedo tubes providing salvo launch capability. Positive discharge launching is by an air turbine pump. The submarine's weapons include anti-ship and anti-submarine torpedoes and anti-surface missiles. 18 torpedoes and missiles can be carried, or 30 mines. The handling and loading of weapons is automated.

    SUBTICS COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
    The SUBTICS combat management system, with up to six multifunction common consoles and a centrally situated tactical table, is collocated with the platform-control facilities. The combat management system is composed of a command and tactical data handling system, a weapon control system and an integrated suite of acoustic sensors with an interface to a set of Air Surface Detection sensors and to the Integrated Navigation System. The system can also download data from external sources.

    The Integrated Navigation System combines data from global positioning systems, the log, depth measurement and the ship's trim/list monitoring system. The Scorpene monitors the environment including seawater density and temperature and the submarine's own noise signature.

    SONAR SUITE
    The vessel's sonar suite includes a long-range passive cylindrical array, an intercept sonar, active sonar, distributed array, flank array, a high-resolution sonar for mine and obstacle avoidance and a towed array.

    CONTROL AND MONITORING
    All submarine handling operations are carried out from the Control Room. The vessel features a high level of automation and surveillance, with automatic control mode of rudders and propulsion, continuous monitoring of the propulsion systems and platform installations, centralised and continuous surveillance of all potential hazards (leaks, fires, presence of gases) and the status of the installations that affect the safety while submerged.

    CONSTRUCTION
    The submarine incorporates a high level of system redundancy to achieve an average 240 days at sea per year per submarine. The maximum diving depth is 300m, giving the commander more tactical freedom than previously available on conventional submarines. There is no limit to the duration of dives at a maximum depth, other than the power systems and crew limitations. The structure of the submarine uses high yield stress-specific steel which allows for as many dives to maximum depth as necessary.

    The use of high-tensile steels has reduced the weight of the pressure hull, allowing a larger load of fuel and ammunition. The reduced complement minimises training costs and increase combat efficiency by making more space, while a larger payload enhances the ship's autonomy.

    When dived the Scorpene has low radiated noise which permits improved detection ranges of its own sensors and reduced risk of detection by hostile sensors. The low radiated noise is achieved through the use of advanced hydrodynamics with an albacore bow shape, with fewer appendages and an optimised propeller.

    Between the suspended decks, the equipment is mounted on elastic mountings wherever possible, and the noisiest systems have a double-elastic mounting to reduce the risk of their noise profiles being radiated outside the submarine. The shock-resistant systems have been developed from systems incorporated in advanced nuclear-powered submarine designs. The low acoustic signature and hydrodynamic shock resistance give the Scorpene class the capability to carry out anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare operations in closed or open sea conditions, as well as the capability of working with special forces in coastal waters.

    CREW FACILITIES
    The ship can hold a total company of 31 men with a standard watch team of nine. The control room and the living quarters are mounted on an elastically supported and acoustically isolated floating platform. All living and operational areas are air-conditioned. The submarine also has space for six additional fold-down bunks for special operations crew.

    The vessel is especially equipped with all the necessary systems to provide vital supplies, water, provisions, regeneration of the atmosphere, to ensure the survival of all the crew for seven days.

    The ship is equipped with full rescue and safety systems. A connection point for a diving bell or Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV) allows collective rescue operations.

    STEALTH DESIGN
    The planning and design of the Scorpene was directed towards achieving an extremely quiet vessel with a great detection capability and offensive power.

    The forms of the hull, the sail and the appendages have been specifically designed to produce minimum hydrodynamic noise. The various items of equipment are mounted on elastic supports, which are in turn mounted on uncoupled blocks and suspended platforms. The isolation also provides better shock protection to the equipment.

    PROPULSION SYSTEMS
    The Scorpene has two diesel generation sets providing 1,250kW of power. At the top of the hull immediately above the diesel generator sets is a Dutch Breach machinery shipping hatch. The submarine has an elastically supported 2,900kW electronic engine.

    There are two variants of Scorpene, the CM-2000 with the conventional propulsion system and the AM-2000 equipped with air independent propulsion. The AM-2000 is capable of remaining submerged on underwater patrol for three times longer than the CM-2000.

    AIR INDEPENDENT PROPULSION
    A conventional diesel-electrical submarine sailing underwater is difficult to detect. However the need to come repeatedly to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine greatly increases vulnerability by:

    Its aerial detectability, since the snorkel projecting from the water is detectable by radar
    Its underwater detectability due to increase in radiated noise from the working diesels
    The ratio between this time of greater vulnerability and the total operating time is known as the "indiscretion rate" and for all conventional modem submarines the indiscretion ratio ranges typically from 7 to 10% on patrol at 4 knots, and 20 to 30% in transit at about 8 knots.

    To lessen the submarine's vulnerability, the vessel can be equipped with an air independent propulsion system such as: the Stirling engine, the fuel cell, the closed circuit diesel and the Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome (MESMA) system .

    The MESMA anaerobic system, in which heat in the primary circuit is produced by burning ethanol with oxygen, can be easily installed either at the start of the submarine's construction or in a later modernisation to convert the CM-2000 to an AM-2000 build standard. With the MESMA system the AM-2000 submarine can stay down in underwater patrol three times longer than the CM-2000. Its performance features remain the same in all other respects, except that the length increases to 70m and its submerged displacement to 1.870t (against the 61.7m and the 1,565t of the CM2000).

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    The Akula - Type 971

    http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...ula/index.html


    SSN AKULA CLASS (BARS TYPE 971) ATTACK SUBMARINE, RUSSIA
    The Russian Navy has 14 Bars class Project 971 submarines known in the West as the Akula class nuclear powered submarines (SSN). A number of Russian Akula class submarines are deployed in the Pacific region. The submarines were built by the Amur Shipbuilding Plant Joint Stock Company at Komsomolsk-on-Amur and at the Severodvinsk shipbuilding yard. Seven Akula I submarines were commissioned between 1986 and 1992, and three Improved Akula between 1992 and 1995. Three Akula II submarines, with hull length extended by 4m and advanced machinery quietening technology, have been built. The first, Viper, was commissioned in 1995, the second, Nerpa, in December 2000 and the third, Gepard, in August 2001. The Akula II are 110 m long and displace up to 12,770 tons. They have a maximum speed of 35 knots submerged and a maximum diving depth of 600 m.

    The Indian Navy has announced plans to lease two Akula Class submarines from the Russian Navy for five years, beginning in 2004.

    DESIGN

    The submarine has a double-hulled configuration with a distinctive high aft fin. The hull has seven compartments and the stand-off distance between the outer and inner hulls is considerable, reducing the possible inner hull damage. The very low acoustic signature has been achieved by incremental design improvements to minimise noise generation and transmission – for example, the installation of active noise cancellation techniques.

    The retractable masts viewed from bow to stern are the periscopes, radar antennae, radio and satellite communications and navigation masts.

    MISSILES

    The Akula class carry up to twelve Granat submarine launched cruise missiles. The missiles are fired from the 533mm torpedo launch tubes. Granat (NATO designation: SS-N-21 Sampson) has a range of about 3,000km and delivers a 200kt warhead. The CEP (the circle of equal probability) is 150m. The CEP value is a measure of the accuracy of strike on the target and is the radius of the circle within which half the strikes will impact. The land attack Granat missile uses inertial and terrain following guidance.

    The submarine's anti-ship missiles are the Novator SS-N-15 Starfish and the Novator SS-N-16 Stallion. The Starfish, fired from the 533mm tubes, has a target range of 45km. The Stallion, fired from the 650mm tubes, has a longer range of up to 100km. The Stallion and the Starfish can be armed with a 200kt warhead or a Type 40 torpedo.

    An air defence capability is provided by a Strela SA-N-5/8 portable missile launcher with 18 missiles.

    TORPEDOES

    The submarine has eight torpedo launch tubes, four 650mm and four 533mm tubes. The Improved Akula and Akula II have ten, with six 533mm tubes. The four 650mm tubes can be fitted with liners to provide additional 533mm weapon launch capacity. The torpedo tubes can be used to launch mines instead of torpedoes. The Akula can launch a range of anti-submarine and anti-surface vessel torpedoes.

    SENSORS

    The Akula's surface search radar is the Snoop Pair or the Snoop Half. The surface search radar antennae are installed on the same mast as the Rim Hat radar intercept receiver.

    The submarine is fitted with the MGK 540 sonar system which provides automatic target detection in broad and narrow band modes by active sonar. It gives the range, relative bearing and range rate. The sonar system can also be used in a passive, listening mode for detection of hostile sonars. The sonar signal processor can detect and automatically classify targets as well as reject spurious acoustic noise sources and compensate for variable acoustic conditions.

    PROPULSION

    The main machinery consists of a VM-5 pressure water reactor rated at 190MW with a GT3A turbine developing 35MW. Two auxiliary diesels rated at 750hp provide emergency power. The propulsion system drives a seven-bladed fixed-pitch propeller.

    The propulsion system provides a maximum submerged speed of 33 knots and a surface speed of 10 knots. A reserve propeller system, powered by two motors rated at 370kW, provides a speed of 3 to 4 knots. The submarine is rated for a diving depth to 600m.

  21. #21
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    Akula apart any news of Amur for the IN. It seems that the Scorpene is the flavour of the season.

  22. #22
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    not yet but for sure I'm expecting the Amur with VLS ... and not the kind of hump-back the article showed, that looked very funny its not gonna happed, but the VLS would be most probablt integrated as a modul in place of the AIP module, thats what I think, but would hve been fine if both the VLS section and an AIP too could be integrated, but the length and displacement would get bigger which dont do good, but still its less than Kilo's disp, then fine, would do.

  23. #23
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcat
    I put my money on the Severodvinsk class, as i believe its gonna resemble it the most and maybe as like the MKI programme of the IAF this could be the other MKI programm for the Indian Navy .... and yes it has got a decent 8 cell VLS too for land attack and thats petty comfortable..... but I wud definetely love to have a SSBN with that Topols blasting from underneath the sea so as to keep anyone having any unwanted dreams abt the IOR ....

    and what the heel is the Gov doing with the Scorpene, even the 6 no is small and now theyr are delaying it, I wud say for a start a 8 sub is needed so that 3 is built in France and the rest in India before 2010 as that wud agument the fleet and absorb the decomissioning of the subs past 2010.


    and a pic of the lada from their site ...
    I don't know. Fancy an Upholder? :diablo:
    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3243&dateline=1166113  560

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    India leases Russian nuclear submarine: Interfax


    MOSCOW (AFP) Oct 21, 2004
    India will receive a Russian nuclear submarine under a 10-year leasing deal that could be valued at tens of millions of dollars annually for Russia, Interfax news agency reported Thursday.
    "India's navy will lease a Project 971 nuclear-powered submarine for 10 years," Interfax said, quoting an unnamed senior Russian defense industry official.

    The contract for the deal was signed early this year and the submarine is still under construction at at the Amur shipyard in the Far East port of Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the report said.

    "It is 85 percent completed," the official said.

    Interfax said independent experts believed the leasing contract was worth "as much as tens of millions of dollars per year," but gave no further details on financing arrangements on the contract.

    The report said construction of the submarine would be completed by 2007 after which an Indian crew would be sent to Russia for training aboard the vessel.

    In April, Russia handed over to India a frigate, the third and last ship built by Russia for the Indian navy under a one-billion-dollar contract signed in 1997.

    India is Russia's traditional ally in southwest Asia, and the two countries have resumed cooperation in the nuclear power sphere following a visit by President Vladimir Putin to New Delhi in October 2000.

    Last January, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov announced that Russia had reached a preliminary agreement to sell India an aircraft carrier along with 28 MiG-29K fighter jets in a deal worth around 1.5 billion dollars.

  25. #25
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    cool, started building in the beginning of the year, finishing 40-45% of the work in a couple of months and going to take another three years to do the remaining 15%. Nice
    What's the problem with giving them of the old storage? You aren't going to tell me they are ALL still in service would you? Or could it be a quite a lot downgraded version (which I of course believe it will be)?

  26. #26
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    Oct 2003
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    The Russians sure know how to milk money out of clients...

  27. #27
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    INTERNATIONAL DEFENSE REVIEW - NOVEMBER 01, 2004

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Brahmos extension allows Amur-class to accommodate vertically launched missiles

    A model of an Amur-class patrol submarine with its hull extended to accommodate vertically launched Brahmos missiles was displayed by Brahmos Aerospace Ltd at this year's African Aerospace and Defence show, staged near Pretoria in September. According to a company representative, the 7m extension, jointly devised with the Rubin submarine design bureau, provides space for eight missiles while enhancing the Amur's hydrodynamic performance. A joint development by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's Mashinostroyenia, the ramjet-powered Brahmos missile is supersonic and has a range of 290km. The surface-ship launched version is due to enter service with the Indian Navy in 2005.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    But what a fool believes, he sees
    No wise man has the power to reason away

    -The Doobie Brothers

  28. #28
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    hmm, doesn't look like Amur much... As a modeller, I think it's not a nice model either Maybe I can upgrade my Kilo model with such a section

  29. #29
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    Oct 2003
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    Or could it be a quite a lot downgraded version (which I of course believe it will be)?
    A lot downgraded , whats your reason for this belief , If the GOI pays for it , it will make sure that it gets what it wants , and during the lease of Charlie submarine , the Russian suitably modified the Charlie , with new Long Range Sonar , modified to meet the Indian need , and the submaine maintained a very high uptime ( meaning participated in all the IN exercises ) and the navy were pretty impressed with it performance , I think Milparade carried out an Article on the charlie subs in the IN , I dont think IN will settle down for the second best .

  30. #30
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    Well, first of all, it's not because you pay a lot that you will automatically receive EVERYTHING. Russia still has its own strategic concerns. They didn't allow Shkval to get sold to Canada/US, nor did they allow the Kh-31 sale...
    They will still conceal certain weapons and systems for you, not to mention their communications systems etc.
    There's also the question why they don't give any of theirs...

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