The Chao Phraya in action (Thai navy)

[GoldenDragon]

Here's a rare one.

The Thai FFG Chao Phraya firing off a C801.

Thailand received 4 053H/T in the late 80s. The Chao Phraya was commisioned in 1991.

These ships were heavily criticized by the Thai navy for crappy construction and the subsequent F25T, the Naresuan class, and was much but the Thai navy like the Pakistani air force install western fire-control, safety and radar systems on their Chinese vessels.

Brutal feedback from the Thais on the 053 sales was considered one of the defining events that helped change Chinese shipbuilding (the world's third largest today.)

[Ja Worsley]

Here she is on a normal day



Her sister ships are:
Bangpakong 456
Kraburi 457
Saiburi 458

Here is Bangpakong
[img]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/thailand/images/bang-pakong-pic1.jpg[img]

And here is Saiburi, you can see here that Saiburi and Kraburi are both of the Jianghu V class having the helo deck aft, where as the Chao Phraya and the Bangpakong are of the older Jianghu I class with the second gun aft.



Here is a little info I have on them:
Displacement

1,800 normal, 1,960 full load

Length

338.5 feet / 103.2 meters

Beam

33.4 feet / 10.2 meters

Draft

10.2 feet / 3 meters

Speed

28 kts

Armament

• Guns 2 x 100mm/56 cal China designed in 1 twin turret (4 in 455 & 456) 8 x 37mm/76 cal China designed in four twin mounts
• Missiles 8 x Ying Ji (Eagle Strike) (C-801) SSMs may be fitted with HQ-61 launcher for PL-9 missiles ASW 2 RBU-1200 (China Type 86) 5-tubed fixed mortar launcher
• Depth Charges 2 BMB racks

Systems

• ESM, Jammer, Chaff/IR Countermeasures
• Surveillance Radar
• Navigation Radar
• 3 fire control Radars
• IFF
• Hull-mounted Sonar

Crew

168

[J-7G fan]

F-25T


Jianghu

[Ja Worsley]

J-7: According to my sources the F-25T's are counted as a different class mate, this is because of the Higher content of Western Equipment on board, There are two ships in this class Taksin and Naresuan These are denoted by having different numbers in the Thai naval numbering system 420 and 421.

These ships also have the ability to hanger a helo unlike the Jianghu V's which can only land a helo, as such their crew compliment is slightly higher: From 168 up to 176.

[J-7G fan]

J-7: According to my sources the F-25T's are counted as a different class mate, this is because of the Higher content of Western Equipment on board, There are two ships in this class Taksin and Naresuan These are denoted by having different numbers in the Thai naval numbering system 420 and 421.

These ships also have the ability to hanger a helo unlike the Jianghu V's which can only land a helo, as such their crew compliment is slightly higher: From 168 up to 176.

thanks mate, but GD also mentioned this class of ship in his opening post so i thought it would be ok to post a pic.

[Ja Worsley]

thanks mate, but GD also mentioned this class of ship in his opening post so i thought it would be ok to post a pic.

Hey mate it's cool, I'm glad to talk about other things than Russo/Sino/Indo/Pak/US stuff for a change, that's why I posted this stuff here and the Irish Navy (which no one has even looked at )

[GoldenDragon]

3D renderings of the Naresuan from Thales who installed the fire-control system. Nice looking artwork and a pretty ship, I must say.

Weapon systems include Mk 45 127mm gun, Harpoon SSMs and a Mk41 VLS SAM launcher (Sea Sparrow.)

It's about 2900 tons when fully displaced and does about 32 knots. Basically a Western warship in a Chinese shell.

Thailand gets cheap Chinese stuff from time to time but its westernized armed forces like US systems. Like with Pakistan, interaction with Thailand helps the Chinese military's drive towards western standards.

There are reports that Thailand will get another batch of Chinese tanks for the latest crop of lichee nuts (which is basically a Asian strawberry and is just as popular in China as the strawberry is in western countries)

[google]

Hmm, it retained the Chinese Type 76A AAA 37mm guns? They don't have the shape of the Italian Dardos.

[GoldenDragon]

I think the class had kept the Chinese 37mm. Or at least, as far as I know. But the two Naresuan had been around since 1995 (I think the pictures and the rednderings are from the 1990s) so there might have been further changes.

There hasn't been a lot news from the Thai navy recently. Well, no news except for the inactivity of their carrier. The Thai VSTOL carrier, Chakri Nareubet, turned out to be a drain on the naval service and has been basically piered except for short training cruises once or twice a year. In fact, it hasn't done any patrolling for years. At least that was the case from what I last read of it.

[J-7G fan]

How come the MK-41 is not there on the real ship? All the photos show the ship hasn't got it.

[Ja Worsley]

Nice Artwork there mate, thanks for sharing it.

[GoldenDragon]

A few interesting things from an old text file I found in me cluttered HD.

In 1997, the Thai navy sent an task force to escort the sea and air trials of the new Chakri Nareubet. The Thai force included the Naresuan (621) and the Taksin (622) which are F25Ts and the Kraburi (457) an 053HT (this model differs from the first two Thai Jianghu frigates by having a helopad instead of a second gun turret.)

I don't have the pennant numbers for the support/replenishment ship(s) but I would imagine that to support the journey of three frigates there would be one - unless the made port calls along the way to replenish fuel and supplies.

At any rate, the Thai navy had traditionally been a competent one, especially in SE Asia. Sending a good sized force from Thai to European waters is no mean feat for a small Asian navy.

The Chakri Nareubet has turned into a bit of financial nightmare. Not only was the initial purchase of the hull huge, but there are still huge expenses left to be laid out for completing the weapons and search/aquisition on the ship. Not to mention that the operating costs are considered prohibitive by the Thai navy.

And not to mention the training of the air crew. As of 2003, the Harrier wing operates entirely from land. The carrier only leaves port a few times a year but only with the Seahawks helos.

What's more, the carrier is highly criticized by the politicans as being impractical and a white elephant - the Chakri Nareubet has special accomodations for the Royal family and was lambasted as a royal yacht.

The financial fallout of the carrier - which very unluckily arrived in Thailand during the Asian financial crisis in 1998 - has affected the Thai navy's other programs, including the submarine program, which was cancelled, and the re-equipping of the fleet's other ships (which probably includes the installation program of the Naresuans' western systems.)

So the question on the MK 41 VLS that is seemingly missing from the pictures is very valid. In fact, now that I've looked into it, I don't think they were installed since the Sea Sparrow for the launchers are supposed to be controlled by the STIR FC from Thales and according to SIPRI, even these systems (ordered in 1994), were not confirmed as being installed yet.

I'm beginning to wonder about another issue. Can smaller navies really operate carriers without throwing the rest of the fleet into disarray?

It seems that the cost of operating a carrier and airwing, even for a small carrier like the Chakri Nareubet, is way out of proportion to the budget a smaller navy normally operates on. Though Brazil and Argentina (1) had operated theirs for years.

I wonder if small carriers are cost effective for even Spain or Italy, though these are richer nations with larger budgets.

Notes
(1)The Veinticinco De Mayo might be anothr case in point. It was laid up through most of its career and was a no show in the Falklands conflict.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/argent.htm
"Operational: Initially operated combined ASW and strike air wing. The ship was in deteriorated condition by the 1980's, and played no major role in the Falklands war.

Departure from Service/Disposal: Inoperable due to poor condition by 1985. She was scheduled for re-engining and modernization, and the her old engines were removed in preparation for reconstruction, but the work was never carried out. Her hulk remained in nominal reserve until 1997, when it was announced that she would be scrapped."

[BME330]

For me the best surface units in the tahi navy are the Ratanakosin corvettes, US Made...

Chakri Naruebet is a great unit, with Thai Marines and helos like Seahawk and S-76 is a perfect Sea Control Ship against piracy.

[GoldenDragon]

For me the best surface units in the tahi navy are the Ratanakosin corvettes, US Made...

Chakri Naruebet is a great unit, with Thai Marines and helos like Seahawk and S-76 is a perfect Sea Control Ship against piracy.

Overkill for peacetime sea control. No coastal force in the world operate carriers in dealing with piracy and seaborne interdiction during peacetime.

The US, which had a massive suplus of light and escort carriers after WWI, never developed an use for them in the coastal role after WWII though it was studied.

The main reason is the cost to operate them even in 1946.

If costs weren't a issue, then there is nothing like a patrolling light carrier along the main trade lanes because the reach and search capability of a carrier air wing would be greater than a whole fleet of Coast Guard cutters.

[GoldenDragon]

A F25T and a 053H of the Thai Navy are visiting China today.

babelfished:

Thailand navy warships to visit Shanghai

2004-08-11 12:13:37 to click:

On August 11, 2004 the morning, the Thailand royal navy which leads by Thailand naval war college chief staff officer sincere Rong Sa Hongcha prosperous Major General "reaches the letter", "in the match cloth" the escort ship, drives arrives at the Shanghai navy Yangtze river wharf, starts to Shanghai for 5 day-long friendly visits.

Navy Shanghai safeguard base vice- Commander Senior Colonel Shen Changkang presides over the ceremony in the wharf, welcome the peaceful ship to visit. Visit, the peaceful navy officers and soldiers will visit the guided missile escort ship which our country independently will develop, will tour Shanghai famous scenic spot and so on the Eastern pearl, jade Buddhist temple, Henan garden, the Chinese-Thai navy officers and soldiers also holds the basket sports match, the tug-of-war match and so on a series of friendly exchanges.

This visit "reaches the letter" the escort ship, the length 120 meters, the width 13 meters, the fully loaded displacement 2,980 tons, the equipment has the harpoon place missile, 127 millimeters main artillery and so on; "In the match cloth" the escort ship, the length 103.2 meters, the width 11.3 meters, the fully loaded displacement 1,924 tons, the equipment have the C-801 place missile, 100 millimeters main artillery and so on. This time along with formation visit officers and soldiers 495 people.

This is the Thai navy warship fifth time visits Shanghai.

[Wanshan]

According to SIPRI (1) the Netherlands is supposed to installed 2 LW-08 surveillance radars and 4 STIR FC radars on two Naresuan class. But there is no confirmation on whether those systems were ever installed - SIPRI listed the orders in parens () indicating undetermined delivery.

So the question on the MK 41 VLS that is seemingly missing from the pictures is very valid. In fact, now that I've looked into it, I don't think they were installed since the Sea Sparrow for the launchers are supposed to be controlled by the STIR FC from Thales and according to SIPRI, even these systems (ordered in 1994), were not confirmed as being installed yet.

The images posted here clearly show an LW-O8 surveillance radar and one STIR FC installed on the Naresuan class ship. That's one less STIR than intended (the aft space is used to place a portable satcom antennea while in port) but still, it is almost the complete planned radar fit.

I wonder if small carriers are cost effective for even Spain or Italy, though these are richer nations with larger budgets.
Notes
(1)The Veinticinco De Mayo might be anothr case in point. It was laid up through most of its career and was a no show in the Falklands conflict.

This is not a useful comparison as the Brazilian and Argentinian small carriers were all much pre-owned ships (third-hand) dating back to the end of WWII and so 50 years old and falling apart. The proper comparison would be with the Spanish Principe d'Asturias, the Italian Vittorio Veneto and the British Invincible class.
Both Spain and Italy are now adding a second flattop to their respective fleets. The UK is looking to replace the Invincible class with 2 much larger vessels. Meanwhile, France has built the Charles de Gaulle and is also seeking to get a second large flattop.
You should also note that Brazil found it worthwhile to acquire the Foch from France to replace its WWII vintage flattop: they wouldn't have done that had they not figured it worth the investment.
India has paid of one WWII vintage small carrier and is soldering on with ex-RN Hermes. However, it will get a much modified Kiev class ship (Gorshkov) and will eventually built its own small flattop (ADS, which can be traced back to french CdG and italian Cavour).

If the Thai find their sea control ship to expensive to operate, perhaps they can sell it to Australia, as an aviation ship to complement some of the LPH type ships planned there.

[Don Chan]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

"Thai naval ship stranded off Yokosuka"

[2010] Apr 15 10:43 AM US/Eastern

No one was injured in the April 2 accident that damaged the 1,924-ton Chao Phraya, which was about to making a port call at Yokosuka during navigation training. The warship was later towed by a U.S. Navy vessel to the base.

[Don Chan]

FWIW, a request from 'www.f-16.net':

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=P...58cfba7#208366

'If there are Thai members on this forum or anyone who knows the Thai language.
Would it be possible to translate these two bits of text:

http://www.wing1.rtaf.mi.th/wing1/102his.html
http://www.wing1.rtaf.mi.th/wing1/103his.html'

[J33Nelson]

"It was only going to be an 8-cell bank fitted with Sea Sparrow."

A lot better weapon against aircraft then the twin 37mm mounts.

[GDL]

Growth options?

[J-7G fan]

f-25t, Jianghu and type 054

[GoldenDragon]

Posted by Santa at CMF -

The Taksin in Shanghai




A closer look at Saiburi's C-801 cannisters

[GoldenDragon]

This is supposed to be a new FFG being built for the Thai navy in Shanghai.

It looks like the third FT25 "Naresuan" class. 511 seems to be a little off though. The lead ship and the Taksin were numbered 421 and 422 respectively.

[Wanshan]

Mmm, interesting, could indeed be a modified F25T. Certainly isn't F22P. The number may be just a yard number.

[J-7G fan]

The CDF guys think this is the the first of 2 OPVs Thailand ordered. That's why the number is 511. Not bad for an OPV huh?

[Ja Worsley]

Those aren't OPV's they are far too big for OPV's, they are in the size of Frigate's perhaps they will be replacing the RTN's early 052's.

[Ja Worsley]

An OPV could be something as large as an American Coast Guard cutter couldn't it, Ja?

Technically it could mate, but the amount of armourment carrier on them is what really dictates their catagory!

Looking at the model above I can see:
5" gun (or there abouts)
SAM/ASROC launcher
SSM's x 8
CIWS 630's x 2
and a helo

All this is far more than any USCG Cutter which only has a 3" Gun, a couple of 12.5mm Guns and a helo for spotting purposes!