Pics from 1952 - where to post?

[Ray Jade]

I've an old photo album of my Dad's containing 50+ b&w prints of photos he took as a boy in the south of England in 1952 and 1953.

Most are average quality and of the usual suspects in and around Hurn although there are a few more interesting examples - a Javalin prototype, Comet 1 landing sequence, various airliners diverted due to fog. Main catagories would be UK military, commercial airliners and private light aircraft (I haven't much clue what most of the latter are).

I can (and will anyway) scan them. Can anyone recommend a good site to post the better ones to?

Attached is a typical example. It is captioned " Meteor 8 WK647 54 Squadron Hullavington July 1952"

[JDK]

I use webshots
www.webshots.com
No need to compress, and no need to worry about the forum going down or whatever.
Cheers

[robbelc]

Please let us know where you post them. I always love photos from the 50's. I was just born 30 years too late!

[mike currill]

Can we have some more on here please? just to whet the appetite

[Papa Lima]

Yes, Ray Jade, please don't tease!

[Papa Lima]

While waiting for Ray Jade to put us out of our misery, how about this classic from that era?

[Ray Jade]

I certainly can't offer that sort of photographic quality, only that these have never been seen before.

If no-one objects too much I'll post some here from time to time. What's the recommended format/size resolution? I clearly need to get the image size sorted out!

Anyhow, here's the first pic. Enlargement of subject, camera shake evident. A/c serial number not legible. Caption is "Valiant 660" and I presume its taken at Hurn sometime in 1952.

[Papa Lima]

No offence intended, Ray Jade, concerning quality, after all I believe the picture I put up was from official sources.
I use 72 dpi, about 650 to 750 pixels wide, mainly to keep within the 100k limit in this site, for my colour pictures; with black and white pictures you might be able to get away with over 1000 pixels wide. I guess the professionals, such as Snapper, could give you better advice, though!
Of course people with dial-up connections would prefer you to keep the size down too (I am lucky enough to have broadband).
Thanks for the pics anyway, they take me back to my youth!

[Tillerman]

after all I believe the picture I put up was from official sources.

How's that with the copyright?
I "rescued" a load of old official publicity shots of various -now classic- aircraft when, during the 80's, the handling company I worked for cleared out the archives and threw it into the garbage. I took a box full of really mouthwatering photos home. On some (not all) of them, there are at the back some stamps and notes of photo agencies wich no longer exist. I tried to find out who owns the copyrights now, but I can't find any references...
I would love to share the pictures here, but I'm not sure about the consequences.
To give you an idea of the kind of pictures: roll-out of prototype Bac 1-11, in-flight photos of Bac 1-11's and VC-10's (Britsh United livery), VC-10's at Nairobi and Gatwick, a wonderful Britannia at Newcastle, loads of early Carvairs and Bristol 170's (including the Mk.32, which are quite rare). One picture I consider really rare is a photo of a mock-up, scaled down model of the proposed Carvair-7, a Dart-engined version which was never built -as all of you know.
Any ideas or tips?

Tillerman.

[Ray Jade]

Seems to have been a year, so in an effort to finish this dusty thread, here's the next in sequence:

92 DH82A Tiger Moth G-ADWO

Caption “Tiger Moth DWO Christchurch 6th September 1952”; first spotted 24th August 1952.

G-INFO gives it c/n 3455. Listed (http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/airfields/xchres.html) as belonging to Christchurch Aero Club 1951-1958, and in http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/Amend%2022Oct03.rtf as served BB807 before returning to the civil register; crashed Whitchurch 31-Jul-58 rebuilt as G-ADXT with parts from c/n 3436 (G-ADXT, BB860, G-ADXT). Both originally built in 1935

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ai...TigerMoth.html lists it as still airworthy as G-ADXT. (G-INFO as has this information, together with a nice piccy http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodu...01&imgtype=jpg)

On 22nd June 2001 (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/cm...pdf_500228.pdf) the aircraft was suffered extensive fuselage damage in a forced landing following engine failure. Pilot and trainee not injured.

Anyone know if the aircraft is flying again?

[Ray Jade]

Another pretty rotten shot, but at least an unusual type.

Caption “B26 Invader 435857 Hurn 3rd September 1952”.

No match to USAAF serial found. Most 1943 A26 Invaders had serials in the range 43-22252 to 22751; most likely match from http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafserials.html is:

Douglas A-26C-50-DT Invader 44-35857 (c/n 29136), to civil registry as N9300R, to Airspray (67) of Canada as C-FCTZ [CF-CTZ] Oct 9, 1979, Air Spray #13. No longer on Canadian register, although Airspray did operate Invaders until at least 2004. Pictures and detailed history to 2002 at http://www.warbirdregistry.org/a26re...6-4435857.html. Any idea what happen to her subsequently?

Conceivable is Douglas A-26C-30-DT Invader is 44-35357 (B-26C) loaned to France Mar 1952 for service in Indochina. Crashed on landing at Haiphong Apr 10, 1954. Just possible that this is the aircraft on its ferry flight, although the dates aren’t a great match.

Was it normal for B26's to be so black and so devoid of markings (as far as this photo allows?)

[Ray Jade]

Another blurry one

Caption “Ambassador LZN Hurn 11th October 1952”.

Potted history from Air Britain Spring 2003. c/n 5212, flew first commercial ‘Elizabethan’ flight with BEA (and was flagship), but returned to Airspeed until April 1953 for trials.

Involved in a mid-air collision with Air France DC-4 F-BBDP at 7000 feet over Paris. Although a large part of G-ALZN’s wing tip was lost, Capt Gilman landed the aircraft safely. He, the Air France pilot and the responsible ATC had a post-flight discussion of some vigour, by Gilman’s account.

iirc, this was also the aircraft that suffered locked elevators in flight due to ice on the control cables. The ice was formed from condensation of water vapour vented from the pressure cabin.

Never very lucky, it suffered collapsed undercarriage at Le Bourget in 1955, and dispensed with its front wheel somewhere over Rome in 1958.

Passed to Dan-Air in the 1960’s and used for ‘slush on runway’ trials to investigate the true cause of the Munich Air Disaster. Served until 1967 then broken up at Lasham. The colour photo is from somewhere on the net.

As flagship, G-ALZN featured in some of BEA’s best PR photos, post cards etc.

Next few are better quality...

[Papa Lima]

By the way, the "660" was the Vickers type designation.

[Ray Jade]

Thanks Gents,

Reading http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.../history.html, would I be right in thinking that the Vickers 660 deignation only applied to the first prototype WB210? I was about to say that, since this aircraft was lost in early 1952, I presume that the aircraft pictured above is more likely to be a Vickers 667, so probably the second Valiant prototype WB215. I notice, however, that this piture of WB210 (http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...hitchwb210.jpg) shows a similar small registration on the fuselage and a bright metal finsh overall.

If that is the case, then this picture can probably be dated to between May 1951 and the aircrafts loss on 12th January 1952.

Shame this picture, and another which is very similar are too small and too fuzzy to read the registration.

I'll have a bit of a play with the scanner and software for the next picture...

[Papa Lima]

Yes, Ray Jade, you are correct in that only the first prototype was the Type 660, the seond being 667. The main external difference appears to have been the shape of the air intakes, just the part that cannot be seen on your photo! Both had silver finish and small serial numbers.
Source: Modern Combat Aircraft 11, Robert Jackson.

[Ray Jade]

I asked my Dad about it tonight. He says that he thinks it was WB210 and that a lot of its testing was based from the Vickers site at Hurn.

Here's the next one in the album, which I hope is a little more presentable in terms of size and resolution.

This is Airspeed Ambassador G-ALZN in the colours of British European Airways. The badge on the fin is the Royal Mail emblem. Photo has been enhanced somewhat. The aircraft just visible in front of the hangars to the left of the Ambassador's tail is probably an Avro York. Caption only reads "Ambassador LZN".

BTW, if anyone wants a better resolution copy of any of these (for private use only), please pm me.

[Ray Jade]

Spotted this link looking up Ambassadors ($27!)

http://www.rubylane.com/ni/shops/molotov/iteml/SUN1058

There's apparently a photo of G-ALZN in the A J Jackson collection (http://www.ajjcollection.co.uk/alaa.htm), but not much other info.

Edit - three photos listed on http://www.transportphotos.com/UKCiv/index.htm which indicate, no surprise, that after BEA the aircraft was operated by Dan-Air

Another edit. According to http://www.alphalink.com.au/~cask/Dub_651.html, G-ALZN (s/n 5212) was in Dublin 30-Mar-1965. (what you can find on the net!)

Can anyone point me to additional sources?

[Steve Bond]

Superb photographs, please keep them coming!

[Ray Jade]

Thanks Steve,

I'll try to scan a few tomorrow - OK to keep them on this thread?

ps how do people put their own comments under the avatar - junior member is too freudian?

[Ray Jade]

Came across this whilst trawling through Google for Ambassador info (http://www.auctiontransportation.com...how_item=50514).

Its of G-ALZO supposedly in 1972 and now at Duxford.

A nicer pic is at http://www.danair.webcentral.com.au/photoambass.html

Some nice pics of Swiss (Globe Air) Ambassadors and others at http://www.worldairnews.ch/EAPHomeca...r_GlobeAir.htm (German text)

I've also seen reports of Ambassdaors operating with the Jordanian and Morocan Airforces in the 1960's - ex BEA aircraft?

[Ray Jade]

Here's the next pic from the album. Its captioned "Viscount MAV". I presume from the printer's mark on the photo, the location (presumably Hurn) the weather etc that it is taken on the same day as "Ambassador LZN".

There is quite a lot of blur evident, the neg was dirty when the print was made and frankly the print is a bit battered. Never-the-less... it has been cropped, unsharp masked and resized only.

My first reaction looking at the original print was that my Dad had got the registration number wrong since it reads "-AWAV" to me. A quick search though shows that G-AWAV was a Cessna 150. Shame the pic is so blurry but it does look like the wrong code was applied.

G-AMAV was the third prototype Viscount a V.700 (c/n 739099, later changed to 3). It took part in the London - Christchurch race of 1954 (not very challanging... oh, that Christchurch) coming second in class. http://www.airwaysmuseum.com/Air%20r...count%20EN.htm

The prototype status may explain the 'big stick' apparently sticking out of the cockpit roof...

[Ray Jade]

The other thing that caught my eye are the two aircraft in the background right (and perhaps one left of the Viscount's port main gear).

Of the two on the right, the left most is probably an Avro York from the high wing and three fins. What's the other one? Its four engined, low winged, single finned and has a tail wheel. My immeadiate reaction was Fw200... which seems pretty improbable. Could it be an Avro Tudor?

Here's about the best blow up / 'enhance' I can manage:

[Skybert]

The other thing that caught my eye are the two aircraft in the background right (and perhaps one left of the Viscount's port main gear).

Of the two on the right, the left most is probably an Avro York from the high wing and three fins. What's the other one? Its four engined, low winged, single finned and has a tail wheel. My immeadiate reaction was Fw200... which seems pretty improbable. Could it be an Avro Tudor?

Here's about the best blow up / 'enhance' I can manage:

Hi Ray Jade; I saw these pic's now for the first time, what a fascinating time machine these pictures are! As for this blowup, i flipped through all the pages but may have missed anyones reply. If no one did; my guess is your '' four engined, low winged, single finned and has a tail wheel'' object is a HP Hastings

[Ray Jade]

Here's the next pic.

WB758 captioned “Chipmunk WB758”. Photo is generally consistent with others taken at Hamble 3 March 1952.

This aircraft is listed at on the ATPH chipmunk photos list as a Chipmunk T10, http://www.transportphotos.com/UKCiv/lists/chipmunk.doc and as being photographed at Bicester on 7 April 1972 and at http://home.wanadoo.nl/showreports/m...s/northw71.htm as being at North Weald on 31 May 1971.

At http://www.ukserials.fsnet.co.uk/7500m.htm it is listed as having the maintainance serial 7729M (what does this mean?) and more fully at http://www.ukserials.fsnet.co.uk/wb.pdf as “C1-0207 WB758 Chipmunk T.10 d/d 22/11/1950, to 7729M 04/09/1961, pres. Torbay”.

[Ray Jade]

Tiger Moth G-AHWB, no caption. Most likely photographed at Hamble on 3rd March 1952 whilst parked next to Auster 5 G-AKXR and near Miles Whitney Straight G-AEVG (slight teaser… or should I go back to big military and civils?).

At http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/Amend%20Oct03.rtf, the aircraft is described as construction number 85710, a DH82A previously DE812 before G-AHWB; crashed near Winchester 24th April 1955. The UK civil register shows the aircraft as built in 1942.

Livery is consistent with that used by Air Service Training Ltd. Anybody have any more info or details of its (presumed) loss in 1955?

Please feel free to provide encouragement; this thread moves down the order very quick on this forum!

[Ray Jade]

[Papa Lima]

Looks like it's time for the next anxiously awaited picture, Ray Jade (if there are any more to post), no takers for the Tiger Moth, obviously.

[dhfan]

I have what I think is a cast-iron excuse for not commenting on the Tiger Moth pic. As it appears to have been taken in daylight, I was, at most, 12 hours old.
I was in Watford, extremely close to my Mum.

[Arm Waver]

Me too... My excuse is I wasn't even thought of and doubt I could add any more. I do like these old photos though...

[Ray Jade]

Thanks for the feedback. As long as there's some interest I'll keep them coming. This tread just shot down the running order so fast I wondered if anyone was out there!

I want to do this for my Dad anyhow and have decided to try to put together some sort of scrap book for him with any vailable details of the aircraft and more recent pics where possible.

There are lots more (at least 50) but of variable quality; the Valiant is about average, the Tiger Moth good and you haven't seen the worst yet!

The next couple are an Auster (I'll try to post later today) and a Miles Whitney Straight if there are any fans out there (slight tease).

There's some Mossie's and a Wellington, a B-29 Washington (more my sort of thing, meteors and vampires, more civil prototypes and strange (to) me general aviation types(bigger tease).

The last one is not rare but a lovely pic and my Dad's all time favourite (that he hasn't seen for thirty years).