The blank side view.
Falks, what about a comparison between these two family members?
Who is more superior in avionics, radar, T-W ratio, range, payload, agility and more?
I must say I have almost no clue about the Mirage-2000, so I really want to learn.
For a start, here is a nice concept drawing of an F404 powered Kfir-2000 with the side view painted in fictional IDF/AF colors I made.
The blank side view.
The real J-79 powered Kfir-2000.
The export version Kfir-CE.
A good view on the Kfir-CE's nose.
Would anyone upload some pics of the Mirage-2000? I don't have any good ones...
A little blurred view of the cockpit.
Isn't she beautiful?
I don't know about the specs, but I'm in love with the way this plane looks.
Also, anyone has some details about the Kfir-2000 and Cheetah C connection?
What engine are they proposing to use?
Currently, not including the Cheetah C, the Kfir-2000 only has J-79. Other proposals are with French engines, and the F404. I guess the IAI will put anything the customer wants.
Why is the Radome/Nose cone soo long? Does it house special EM equipment?
Wrinkles wrinkles my kingdom fallen to a wrinkle
if could equipped with HMS capability...that would be superb light fighter
Probably, and the radar which is the EL/M-2032. I'm looking for sings of small intakes that would cool the equipment there.
But hey, this isn't Kfir-2000 thread... let's compare it with the Mirage-2000...
Duotiga, can you remind me what HMS stands for?
oops...i mean HMCS
Her Majesty Canadian Ship?
Seriously, I have no idea what is that... can you explain a a bit?...
HMS = Helmet Mounted Sight does it not?
If it is, I'm pretty sure it does have it, since it probably carries Phyton 4s.
“Falks, what about a comparison between these two family members?”
The Mirage 2000 is more agile and can carry better weapons (MICA EM/IR, SCALP EG, APACHE) and radar (RDY-2). It’s almost like comparing the F-5E to the F-16. The only plus in favor of the Kfir is that it is a lot cheaper to buy.
The line drawing shown in the first post of this thread is actually not a Kfir 2000. Its a proposed mirage upgrade. How to tell? Look at the fin, this drawing lacks the pronounced step of the Kfir.
The Kfir is actually a decent aircraft. Certainly not comparable to the latest mirage 2000-5 Mk.IIs however. There have also been some questions regarding stress problems with the Kfir's airframe on the older versions. However these may have been fixed on the Kfir CEs.
I'm not saying the Kfir is not a nice plane. Just that it's not up to the Mirage 2000-5.
Kfir is cool but it is not even in the same class as the M2000.
Here are just a few M2000 points where it is superior to Kfir.
*Design ( flybywire ) etc
*Modern maintenance method.
*Power- Even with the canards, the Kfir is a long take off roll when loaded. ( kind of a concern for the guys on Sri Lanka where this was an issue. ( Their swinger MiG-27s didn't have this problem )
*Easy of flying and vices. M2000 is easy to fly. ( Kfir if you remember is a bit heavy in the center when it was fitted for an engine it was never originally designed to take. ( J79 ) Also there are some interesting Kfir trivia on that engine mod that things had to be put in to keep it from burning up
Last edited by ELP; 11th November 2003 at 19:55.
On the subject of the drawing, that could still be a Kfir, as the engine in the case of the drawing is an F404 and not a J-79. If I'm not mistaken, the Kfir had that "step" at the base of the fin because of the J-79, but then again I could be wrong.
Perhaps the F404 wouldn't have needed that same "step."
As far as Kfir 2000 vs. Mirage 2000, I have to agree with most of the others. They really aren't in the same class at all.
For example, for a typcial air defense mission, the Kfir can carry a pair of Derbys and a pair of Python-4's with room for an external tank.
The Mirage 2000 can carry four MICAs EM, two MICA IR's, and still have room for three external tanks.
The MICA has a longer-range than the Derby so there is another advantage.
Both have the helmet-sight option (MICA IR when it's ready will give the Mirage 2000 that capability) so that's an equal area, but overall the Mirage 2000 is the better airplane, though as Troung pointed out the Kfir is much cheaper, and in my personal opinion is a fine combat aircraft that shouldn't be overlooked.
Also, if you buy a Kfir nowadays you'll get an old knackered IDF/AF airframe upgraded to your likings, whereas your M2K will be built to your likings. Your Mirage is definately going to last a lot longer than a Kfir. Especially since the Kfir airframe has proven to be not quite as durable as that of 'real' Mirage III/5s.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.Bertrand Russell
The Kfir really can't compare with the Mirage 2000 in anything other then fly away cost. In terms of strike the Mirage 2000 has more ability then any Kfir could dream of in stand off strike missions.
It's like comparing the F-4D to the F-15E....
Kfir 2000 hmm, is there any photo where it carries both the derby & Python??
Wanted to know that isn`t Kfir C2000 has stability problems! in pitch. But belive me, This type Kfir C2/C7 is the most sexy fighting machines in the regime of 0 to 3000m they could kick but of even F-16/F-15/F-18/Mig-29 " in Close Combat" that is DoG FiGhT.
So, Ecuador Bought those well they needed them!!!
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