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Thread: Second European airworthy B-17?

  1. #1
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    Second European airworthy B-17?

    The commentary at Old Warden today, during the excellent Sally B display, hinted that a second B-17 might be flown/based in Europe soon. This was news to me, am I missing something? I've heard nothing about a return for Pink Lady, or indeed any Fortresses scheduled to appear from over the pond. Anyone know anything more?
    Armchair enthusiast, but also a fan of sofas and recliners.

  2. #2
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    Great news if true. But I personally do not believe a word the numpty's who commentate at a Shuttleworth show have to say. When the BBMF Hurricane LF363 displayed the commentary clearly stated that the aircraft was in 1 sqn markings and that it had the squadrons 'Wasp' marking in the nose. Yes last year it did, but this year it is different both sides, something that even they could have seen, even if they did not understand what GN-F / SD-A stood for. I am no expert but even I can read the internet to find out.

    Apart from that what a great show !!!

  3. #3
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    LF363 and P7350 were repainted on 31st May. I saw the latter in the new Spraybay at Coningsby.

    Tim S

  4. #4
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    I think they must know something. There was no need to mention it otherwise

  5. #5
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    ''do not believe a word the numpty's who commentate at a Shuttleworth show have to say. ''

    You are very harsh, and ungenerous in spirit. I think you would have to have the experience of commentating live for three or four hours, or failing that, at least a degree of imagination, to begin to understand what a challenging task it is. You seemingly have neither, a self proclaimed non-expert.

    So you spotted and error, some info which was now out of date. Big deal. If only they had employed one of those commentators who can describe a live performance, juggle notes, adapt to a changing schedule, never get distracted, and never make a factual error.

    If there was a numpty at OW today, I guess you would be the first to know..

  6. #6
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    Is there enough "business" for a second B-17 in Europe?

    If so, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to dis inter Pink Lady?
    My only concern would be if Red Bull wanted to fly one in a tacky/inappropriate or overly commercial paint scheme.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  7. #7
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    Always seemed to be enough business for Pink Lady and Sally B when 'Lady was still flying. With 'Lady mainly on the European main land and Sally B mainly flying in the UK, they didn't step on each others toes too much. Might be the same if another Fort was based on the European main land.

    No mention of a Fort coming to Europe on WIX or Aero Vintage.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propstrike
    If there was a numpty at OW today, I guess you would be the first to know..
    Nicely put.

    Though it must be said I still miss John Blake so much.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  9. #9
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    There had been talk of finding a younger crew to take on "Pink Lady". The a/c was seen out of the hanger engine running earlier this year ,. Maybe that's what they were talking about?

  10. #10
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    One of the commentators at Old Warden seemed to suggest the B-17 would be based in the United Kingdom?
    WA$.

  11. #11
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    The commentator also implied that said mystery Fortress could be based in the UK - which begs the question of where! No space at Duxford for two Forts under winter maintenance.
    Personally, I'd love to see a late "G" in the bare-metal scheme with some bright unit markings - which would make a lovely contrast to Sally B.

    I also noticed the slightly muddled commentary on the BoB Hurricane, but as numptyism it was far out-weighed by the bad-tempered and foul-mouthed outburst of the man next to me on the flight line whinging about how the BBMF had been too inept and disorganised to send the promised Spitfire as well as the Hurricane. Not only that, but he'd been trying to see one particular Spit in a new scheme all season and he still hadn't managed to see it, which apparently was all the BBMF's fault for not serving him what he wanted on a plate. Rather than trying to patiently explain to him that the BBMF work incredibly hard with unreliable 80-year old aeroplanes, and still manage to do multiple displays a weekend, and that they're not flying for his personal benefit just so he could take a few hundred more identical photos, I moved out of earshot. Some people just can't be pleased, even on an immaculate summer's day at OW.

    The only blemish on an otherwise wonderful day. Highlights included getting to chat with the wonderful Tony Blackman on the Grub Street stand (what a gent!), one of the most outstanding solo warbird displays I've seen in 20 years of airshow-going (Stu Goldspink in Hurricane P3717 - just sublime!) and having waved to the crew of the Avro XIX doing circuits as I was walking back along the footpath to Biggleswade, getting a couple of personal low (and surprisingly fast) passes and (I fancy) a bit of a wing waggle
    Armchair enthusiast, but also a fan of sofas and recliners.

  12. #12
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    Is there enough "business" for a second B-17 in Europe?
    To digress away from B17s for a moment, I must admit that I've often wondered this about NX611 joining PA474 as a second airworthy Lancaster in the UK. With one being paid for by the MOD and only (I think?) charging a nominal appearance fee, and the other in private hands and inevitably needing to charge a lot more for appearances, you'd think that something would have to give somewhere.

  13. #13
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    No space at Duxford for two Forts under winter maintenance.
    When the Lancaster finally moves out, there is always the Stephenson hangar.

    Brian
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  14. #14
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    I thought the issue with Pink Lady was the european insurance catagory which put it in the same class as airliners, making it unaffordable to operate??????

  15. #15
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    Maybe this B-17 won't be permanent. Just popping over for a tour?

  16. #16
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    Perhaps an American owner is moving to Europe and bringing it with him? As for "is there enough business", well we all want two Lancasters!
    pb::

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Boyle View Post
    Is there enough "business" for a second B-17 in Europe?

    If so, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to dis inter Pink Lady?
    My only concern would be if Red Bull wanted to fly one in a tacky/inappropriate or overly commercial paint scheme.
    I would have thought that a hypothetical red bull scheme, if similar to the colours of their P38, would be no more 'tacky' than Sally B's non authentic composite scheme with a poorly drawn nude on the nose. A lot of world war 2 nose art is by its very nature 'tacky'. Look at Just Jane for example. Period it may be but tasteful?

  18. #18
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    At least Sally B's markings LOOK realistic, even if they aren't necessarily accurate.
    A Red Bull scheme would just look like an advertising board with wings.

  19. #19
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    And what is wrong with a bull and logo. They're paying for it. It can be taken off later. It's not like it's been put in an authentic scheme and then had the logo dumped on top. It's a pseudo scheme. Plus it looks rather good.

  20. #20
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    I thought the issue with Pink Lady was the european insurance catagory which put it in the same class as airliners, making it unaffordable to operate??????
    Yes, that and the aging of the air and ground crew that operated her.

    Given the clamour to see two Lancs in the air 3 years ago, and the crowd attraction whenever Pink Lady came to the UK, I have no doubt that there is plenty of 'space' for 2 x Lancs and 2 x Forts.
    In the case of the Lanc, BBMF rarely make the trips to mainland Europe with '474, so plenty of revenue opportunities for Just Jane to make tour trips to mainland Europe for shows I would have thought....?
    I was with it all the way until letting the brakes off..........

  21. #21
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    "And what is wrong with a bull and logo"

    There's nothing wrong with the logo, it's a nice logo, but I think, stars and bars would be a more appropriate memorial to the pilots who flew and fought in such aircraft than a logo off of an energy drink amongst other things.
    On the B25 they own they completely omit any national insignia.

  22. #22
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    Apparently the Tom Hanks Steven Spielberg mini series on the 8th Air Force is ramping up. Perhaps Pink Lady is being dusted off with some HBO money? The series is currently titled Masters of The Air. https://twitter.com/johnorloff Is the head writer's twitter feed.
    Last edited by Matty; 3rd July 2017 at 14:45.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Air99 View Post
    "And what is wrong with a bull and logo"

    There's nothing wrong with the logo, it's a nice logo, but I think, stars and bars would be a more appropriate memorial to the pilots who flew and fought in such aircraft than a logo off of an energy drink amongst other things.
    On the B25 they own they completely omit any national insignia.
    It might be a more appropriate memorial but it isn't being operated as a memorial but as a promotional tool or, judging on the eclectic nature of the collection, as a celebration of machinery/technology.

    Regards the lack of insignia on the B25. Not sure if you mean it is a bad thing or good thing. Irrelevant I would say as it isn't a memorial flight so if some have insignia and some don't it might be an aesthetic whim? Who knows.

    Remember, the sea vixen needed red bull support for many years and then ended up in a more authentic scheme for years to come after that. I don't think it's such a big deal. And with the sea vixen it was the only one flying whereas these aircraft are in a slightly more plentiful supply in terms of airworthy examples.

  24. #24
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    I have just checked my workshop, and I still only have the cockpit, sorry, it's not mine
    'I know, lets build a B-17' seemed like a good idea at the time

  25. #25
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    By B17 they didn't mean a SAAB B17 Dive Bomber did they?

  26. #26
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    I'd love to see the SAAB B-17 again. Their story of its history on their show stand was hysterical!

  27. #27
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    In the early '90s didn't WOGB acquire B-17G 485778 Miss Angela and plan to operate it in UK? (Heard they planned to name it 'Sally A').

    And of course in the'80s they briefly owned the Fort that became Thunderbird.

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