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Thread: Grenfell Tower fire

  1. #61
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    I totally agree, I remember on Pprune, RyanAir went after a pilot? who was posting on there. In fact PPRUNE aftwerwards added this to the top of each forum

    http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ymity-252.html

    You do not know, no one does and I keep telling you that, but you STILL are blaming people.
    Last edited by TonyT; 17th June 2017 at 10:35.

  2. #62
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    Whenever possible, let 'alleged' be your friend.

  3. #63
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    The national propensity for the Blame Culture is in full and unstoppable momentum. Any one will do - even the Prime Minister, tho' what it has to do with her is utterly beyond my understanding.

    Do not tell me that as the No. 1, the buck stops with her. This catastrophe is not of her doing neither was the making of it done on her watch.

    No. The usual suspects are lining up with accusations at the ready. Rent-A-Mob, aka The Socialist Workers Party - why do I instinctively want to write that in German - appear to be in evidence. Sundry morons of the Labour party including one who claims to be the Mayor of London are venting their bile at anything that looks to be vaguely Tory.

    All so predictable. ***** at the ready shut up and wait for the expert enquiry.

  4. #64
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    While we are looking for a culprit (I mean cause!) I haven't seen any comment (not that I've been looking) about the window frames; they seem to have been consumed in the fire. I can't help thinking that they may have been uPVC? That and the cladding may have rendered the advice 'to stay put' redundant?
    WA$.

  5. #65
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    I must admit, I totally agree with you, she runs a country not a building site, I amazes me that she is suddenly to blame in all of this, even more so as the building and repairs /re modelling were not carried out on her watch. She is damned if she does or damned if she doesn't, the press hounding her for not meeting and greeting like the Queen being one, she was there to learn, see what was needed and direct assistance where needed, Bettie was there to meet and greet, press the flesh and bolster spirits.

  6. #66
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    I wouldn't be completely surprised if it turned out to arson yet.

    I agree though Tony. If a light bulb blows, do you change it, or spend time talking to people about how dark it is?

  7. #67
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    why arson?. What inside information do you have to suspect that?

  8. #68
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    I wondered about that.

  9. #69
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    I did my shouting at the radio bit this morning, when Damien Green was on the Today programme. The council response has been appalling. The government response has been worse. People trying to find out what has happened to their families have been treated appallingly. I am forced to conclude that the government cannot operate without advisors telling ministers what they should think, which is an appalling state of affairs. Had I been in number 10, I would have been in the midst of it as it was happening, talking to people, and giving reassurance. Our government (on all sides, but more so on the right) is so massively out of touch it is beyond belief.

  10. #70
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    Hang on a minute. why do we think that everything is the responsibility of the Govt ? 'The Govt. hardly knows what is going on at the best of times. Personal responsibility allied to some central agency such as the former Civil Defence to co-ordinate missing persons, provide clothing and other personal items as well as directing victims to temporary residence should be the answer.

    Unfortunately we closed down the Civil Defence organization some years ago as I recall. It needs to come back. We saw and heard reminders of this disaster in Hurricane Katrina which some while ago, devastated New Orleans. Very little was done by the residents to help themselves until the first aid arrived courtesy of US Govt. agencies.

    We have in this country vastly wealthy charitable organizations like the Salvation Army, Age Concern and others. Where are they ?

  11. #71
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    Never mind that, if the 'moron' Mr Khan is only claiming to be the Mayor of London, where is the real one?

    I presume to be the real one in your eyes he'd need to be both Conservative and white?

    The fact he was voted into the post has nothing to do with it, then.
    Last edited by Beermat; 17th June 2017 at 22:03.

  12. #72
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    People trying to find out what has happened to their families have been treated appallingly.
    Apart from setting-up an emergency telephone number and help-desk for those victims of the fire known to be in NHS hospitals (and those already known to be dead), and widely publishing the details for these, I'm not sure what else could be done for families worried about relatives.

    Even then there may be genuine doubt; there may be unidentified people in hospital that haven't regained consciousness. The 'authorities' may simply not have the information that relatives are so desperately demanding.

    Also, these days, social media and smartphones make reuniting separated families, even under these most trying circumstances, far easier than it has ever been. Possibly the modern norm of being constantly in touch through this technology has made the genuine absence of definitive information (rather than the poor management of known information) all the harder for the relatives to bear?
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 17th June 2017 at 22:35.
    WA$.

  13. #73
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    why do we think that everything is the responsibility of the Govt ?
    Of course it is their responsibility, they run things, or least should but have largely abdicated their responsibilities....Railways, Post Office, as a couple of examples...

  14. #74
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    I think you are confusing what is meant by 'responsibility' in these circumstances (and this issue is somewhat clouded by the fact that Grenfell Tower was, at least in part, 'council housing')? Also the responses, or lack of them, to this whole tragedy have been utterly confused by the amount of politics involved.

    I have to admit that there are certain aspects of this tragedy that seem awfully strange taken in isolation. For example the government pledge of £5,000,000 to be made immediately available, and more if needed, to help the victims buy 'clothes, food and other essentials'. By my reckoning that's about £40,000 per flat in the tower-block. Undoubtably a gesture prompted by criticism of the government response but is this now to become standard for any family made homeless by a house-fire? Or just those in council properties?
    WA$.

  15. #75
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    It was a figure plucked out of the air in near-panic.

  16. #76
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    Never mind that, if the 'moron' Mr Khan is only claiming to be the Mayor of London, where is the real one?

    I presume to be the real one in your eyes he'd need to be both Conservative and white?

    The fact he was voted into the post has nothing to do with it, then.
    watched him on TV getting owned by a school kid, but hats off to him he stood their and took their grief.

    One thing that stuck me about him was my old WO would have told him..."Laddie, you need a neck shave"

  17. #77
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    #73

    Next you'll be asking for help to tie your shoelaces.

  18. #78
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    #71

    He attempts to make only political points as soon as he is within spitting distance of a microphone or TV camera. 'Tory and white?' Lack of ? On both counts you're maintaining your record of always being wrong - back to the drawing board !

  19. #79
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    I'm fairly sure we know how it spread so fast now, just waiting to find out how it started.

  20. #80
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    So you are really a Liberal Asian Left-winger with a deep rooted desire to see the furtherance of the progressive cause amongst all races and nations then John?

    No? Then on what count am I wrong in this instance? Is your denegration of the Mayor of London based upon his needing a neck-shave?

    Oh, no, it's because he dares to highlight failings. You see it as political because some of those who may turn out to be responsible for these failings may turn out to belong to a party allied to the right. You immediately become defensive, and as your only concept of defence is offence, you become.. offensive.

    If it was the very Tory and very Right Boris J making the same points, where would you go with that? Not that he would. He is of the same offensive school as yourself: http://uk.businessinsider.com/boris-...eeds&r=US&IR=T


    Oh, and I'd be interested to see my 'record of always being wrong'. Good to know you are keeping records.
    Last edited by Beermat; 18th June 2017 at 10:34.
    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
    It's all good. Probably.

  21. #81
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    You're 'flagged' well up on my patent Oxometer that is why I'm aware of your 100% record for being wrong.

    Neck shaving is Tony T's comment pace his RSM. He's probably quite right. No one who hasn't a short haircut should be in a position of power.

    Tory & Boris ? I'm a putative member of the SWP. I see that they were out in full strength on the streets of London. Didn't see much of them about after the Borough market bombing. Funny that !

  22. #82
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    The reason that you didn't see them after the Borough Market bombing was that there was no bombing at Borough Market.

  23. #83
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    You're quite right. There was no terrorist related activity there of any kind. Certainly none related to the peace loving, wholly pacific, quite un-necessarily reviled by some, religion of Islam.

    The pigs are fed, watered and ready to fly !

  24. #84
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    oh, how droll.

    I think you are the only person denying any terrorist activity, it is just the wrong activity that you mentioned. Seeing youare so keen on the truth, I thought you would be very happy for me to point out your typo.

    So, the shorter your hair, the more suited you are for power? Perhaps Maybot should have a No.1 to get her credibility restored.

    And for the record, I am an own-up baldy so no neck shaving required

  25. #85
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    " No one who hasn't a short haircut should be in a position of power."

    Too right JG we shouldn't judge people on their skills and capabilities and humanity, just on their hair cut and skin colour. It's working well for Kim Jong Un, he'd never allow such shocking hirsuteness.

  26. #86
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    Or, equally, those inclined to cheat when playing marbles. Made worse if they've got long hair. Trekkie you're excused.

  27. #87
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    Of course, all those Saxon leaders you are so fond of were well known for their short backs and sides.

  28. #88
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    I liked the girls better. You seem very knowledgeable about the blokes. Who am I to judge ? Beermat, whatever lights your boiler.

  29. #89
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    Turns out the cladding did not meet building regs.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3567541.html

  30. #90
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    I guess that that actually means that the cladding did not have an Agrement Board certificate.

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