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Thread: Airbus: European Future Fighter Program

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP
    Long story short...

    Sorry, I did not mean to hijack the thread with my problems.
    Who cares about the thread, the important thing is for you to get better soon mate! Keep us posted.

  2. #422
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    ..


    Sorry, I did not mean to hijack the thread with my problems.
    who cares about the thread... this is a discussion board about a subject we like but your health is on a completely another (higher) level of importance.. what counts is that you get well ASAP, it will always be time to discuss planes later...

  3. #423
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    You do not hijack anything important. Recover fastlty, need to argue with you!

  4. #424
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    Ouch! Talk about fate dealing some blows.

    All things considered, I believe you are making the right decision - here's hoping that with the amputation done you can put this issue behind you once and for all.

  5. #425
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    Long story short....
    1991 -- Motorcycle accident with multiple compound fracture. 3 month in the hosp to get MRSA under control & start to rebuild after losing 8 inches of the tibia to the MRSA. Lost a lot of soft tissue including multiple muscles, veins & arteries in the left shin area.
    1991 > 1993 -- I have had 28 surgeries involved in the MRSA infection, ortho reconstruction, muscle replacement, and skin graphs. Chronic bad blood flow in left shin due to the missing veins and arteries.
    2001 -- At my daughter's 1st birthday party I had a pain in my left knee, the dr said possible bone chip and wraps the leg in an ace bandage. 4 days later (and in a lot of pain) I go back to the Dr to remove the ace and the leg is black & purple from the knee down. An aggressive cellulitis infection had taken hold. Turns out the pain was not a boan chip but the lympth node "going off".
    2001 > today -- Starting in 2001 with 1 infection and growing in frequency (now at 3-4 per year), I keep getting these cellulitis infections. I am very good at detecting the early signs (ie the pain the in the lymph node) so I can start antibiotics before my leg even gets a little red. While it has been getting more frequent, they are very manageable and present nothing worse than a headache and some chills.

    However, July the 31st was a different story. I was at work and got the now classic "pain the lymph node". I told my boss (who is used to it by now and told me to go home) and started to drive home. After about 30 minutes I cannot remember anything till I "came around" in the ER. I never lost consciousness but was confused & incoherent for a couple of hours. The doctors told me that mild stomach bug that I had been dealing with for a week or so had weakend my imune system enough to allow the cellulitus to be very aggressive, turn septic, and basically hit me so hard I never saw it coming.

    I've accepted for years that eventually I would have to have the leg amputated as at some point later in life I would no longer be able to fight the infections. However, this is a whole new problem, that being of safety and the possibility that I can cause a serious accident without seeing it coming. This is why I have decided to have the left shin amputated ASAP. I have an appt tommarow to have the leg scanned for blood flow to see if any part of the shin can be saved or if everything below the knee has to go.
    Man you are strong, hope you get better soon

  6. #426
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    Get well spud but thought I would bring this back to the topic.

    Haven't seen this posted here. Interesting comments made by General Lanata, Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, to French law makers recently.

    http://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-d...e-l-air-131972

    Google translated version below. Please point out any corrections if Google has not got the context correct.
    "The F-35 will quickly become a benchmark standard in the world's air force, not just in the United States, but also in our major partners. Whether one is outclassed by the United States is not surprising; That one begins to be by equivalent partners is another matter, " said General Lanata, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, at his recent hearing in the National Assembly . Among these "equivalent partners" , he cited the United Kingdom and Australia among others."I see very significant pressure from the US aerospace industry in Europe, with the gradual deployment of a new generation F-35 combat aircraft. The latter is changing the operational capabilities due mainly to its discretion - not detected by current radars - and its connectivity capabilities: it massively connects information with other devices in the Air combat. If I speak of an air combat system, it is that we should not consider each airplane taken in isolation, but should conceive the system as a whole: it is this system that produces effects, thanks to the connection we reach To establish between the various mobiles of the air combat device , "he added.

    Without addressing it directly - at least in the revised and corrected version in his hearing - General Lanata addressed the question of Germany, which is interested in the F-35 to replace the Tornados, although no decision is taken Expected next year."It seems to me interesting to take an initiative with Germany to engage in a dialogue, to explore the possibilities for cooperation to replace our fleets of combat aircraft together. In the first approach we may have needs similar to those of Germany in this field. We are still two countries in Europe that have investment capacities, Germany demonstrates the will, with the significant increase in its defense budgets. Germany could be a partner on the condition, however, of finding the balanced industrial architectures which will allow the realization of these cooperations. We will have to put forward our strengths in this area. "
    Thought I would post the quote here compared to the F-35 thread based on the context of the article being about potential cooperation between France and Germany on a future fighter. Interesting comments by the French General in the context of F-35 capabilities and the F-35 with equivalent partners outclassing French equipment. Also how France sees future cooperation with Germany as a means to equal or surpass equivalent partners.

  7. #427
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    Et bien voilà. At last, someone speaking with his head on that side of the Channel*.


    *Wonder how much bashing he will have to endure to say the least.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 18th August 2017 at 23:16.

  8. #428
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    Wish you all the best for an outcome that puts an end to your problems.
    Sum ergo cogito

  9. #429
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    Et bien voilà. At last, someone speaking with his head on that side of the Channel*.


    *Wonder how much bashing he will have to endure to say the least.
    Let's see, the man has to motivate politicians to allow the development (invest money) of new aircraft.. do you expect him to come before them and say "our fighter is the nicest and most perfect bird there will be for the next 1000 years? Look at the USAF generals when speaking to authorities, they had the "best fighter on the planet, with over 100 kills without any losses, it's the best out there..." and so on; but when they needed budgets for their next new and shiny toy: "we're completely outclassed, we need the next thing..." , even if those that "outclassed them" were exactly the same that were dominated a few years before

    What did Gen. Lanata say? The discretion (or stealth if you prefer) and communications are absolutely essential - nobody disagrees with that

    the Rafale developers didn't wait for the F-35 to develop means to get by the radars or include data fusion not only inside the aircraft itself but between several of them. Fact is that you have to go that route, communicate always more, defeat radars by any mean as long as it is effective, and it is also a fact that every aircraft has to be improved all the time, but at some point needs to be replaced, and that replacement has to be planned long before, and the delays get longer and longer as developments are more and more complex, it's no secret

  10. #430
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    Unbelievable....

  11. #431
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    Given the context, the statement is little surprising. A few days earlier the joint chief of staff (CEMA ?) resigned over clash around budget reduction , while at the same time , totally out of the blue this announcement of collaboration with Germany over a new Fighter. As unplanned external operation are already draining equipment budget, deliveries of new Airframes and tankers are yet officially postponed , I will be concerned too with future F4 standard and MLU of rafale loosing further shares on a shrinking budget. There are already talk of merging MLU & F4 with likely further delays in deliveries . For reminder F4 should bring interconnectivity and network centric capabilities not only in A2A but also in A2G and compatible the French and European standards, while MLU is supposed amongst other things to enhance stealth.
    So yes the AF chief of staff may feel compelled to remind what is at stake with rafale roadmap. From lessons learned with the chief of staff incident, he seem to have found a more policed and efficient way of expressing his concerns.

  12. #432
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    what's unbelievable? that generals try to make their arm go forward or that the french didn't remain stuck in WWII technology?

  13. #433
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    !?! Mind you, LM and other stuff, He is awake!*

    Name:  PDVD_017.jpg
Views: 140
Size:  16.1 KB
    12f'Zilla

    while MLU is supposed among other things to enhance stealth.
    For God sake, are you trying to make jokes?

    *For all my Fr colleagues that need to [Ke]tch-up, here it is the shortest [s]ay
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 19th August 2017 at 17:33.

  14. #434
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    Well, at least that shows the depth of your arguments about it... not that it is surprising in any way

  15. #435
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    You are amazing that's for sure... A reboot, a bit of chit chat and done we are with another loop on the stage...
    Anyhow, we yet have to see if the new wind is really blowing.

    And please, don't talk about depth when I have probably years of heading on you on that theme...
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 19th August 2017 at 22:18.

  16. #436
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    Let's see, the man has to motivate politicians to allow the development (invest money) of new aircraft.. do you expect him to come before them and say "our fighter is the nicest and most perfect bird there will be for the next 1000 years? Look at the USAF generals when speaking to authorities, they had the "best fighter on the planet, with over 100 kills without any losses, it's the best out there..." and so on; but when they needed budgets for their next new and shiny toy: "we're completely outclassed, we need the next thing..." , even if those that "outclassed them" were exactly the same that were dominated a few years before
    Your example doesn't make sense in this context. For starters US Generals don't say they are outclassed, they specifically say the capability gap is shrinking. In this context though, stating the General is trying to drum up political support isn't true, unless the French spend their military budget for pride. General Lanata didn't say they are outclassed by potential adversaries, he said they were being outclassed by equivalent partners. Surely you don't expect French politicians to approve the spending of vast sums of money so their equipment is better than allies?



    the Rafale developers didn't wait for the F-35 to develop means to get by the radars or include data fusion not only inside the aircraft itself but between several of them. Fact is that you have to go that route, communicate always more, defeat radars by any mean as long as it is effective, and it is also a fact that every aircraft has to be improved all the time, but at some point needs to be replaced, and that replacement has to be planned long before, and the delays get longer and longer as developments are more and more complex, it's no secret
    Xman has highlighted a couple of very valid points though, how much further development will there be if Rafale has to compete with a future European fighter, which will likely cost somewhere between US$20-30 billion to develop in todays dollars. If Germany does invest in F-35, and clearly General Lanata sees this as a possibility else he wouldn't have mentioned it, even if just as a short term gap filler until a new project comes into service will reduce their haste to bring any new airframe into service, potentially increasing development time and subsequently cost.

  17. #437
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    Rather than seeing who can make the neatest models or renderings, the real question is will the European countries have the political will to make an expensive combat aircraft?

    Question:
    Are the days of the UK and France not working together (by that I mean they didn't share the Typhoon, Tornado or any recent French type) over?
    Will the next European jet HAVE to be a continent-wide (France, Germany the UK, Italy and Spain) joint program?
    What about SAAB?
    Last edited by J Boyle; 20th August 2017 at 05:35.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

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