Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 60 of 60

Thread: FC-31 thread

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    Originally Posted by MSphere
    It's not that bad, finally, there are not that many other platforms.. Current RD-33MK is technologically roughly on the F404-GE-402 level (~77 N thrust from 1 kg weight, digitally controlled FADEC, cooled blades, IR signature reduction, service life 4k hours). Granted, EJ200 and F414 can do slightly more (~88-91 N from 1kg weight, 6k hours), but the advertised thrust increase to 98 kN for the Klimov should get it roughly on the same level..

    Now, get the unit price for EJ200 and RD-33MK in a comparison chart and you'll see what I mean.. given current RUB/USD exchange rate, a twinpack of Klimovs costs ~20% less than a single F414..

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=n3vu4x&s=7#.WRo5cfmGPIU
    Last edited by MSphere; 15th May 2017 at 23:49.
    RD-33 is alot more morefull than EJ200 and F414. try remove those composite materials from EF and F-18E and see how they perform compared to MIG-29. RD-93 also very efficient in real world application. that JF17 has 3500km ferry range.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,031
    RD-33 is alot more morefull than
    how much more is more morefull?
    a little more? a lot more? more x 3?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    how much more is more morefull?
    a little more? a lot more? more x 3?
    RD-33MK = 9000kgf wet
    RD-33MKm = 9500kgf wet

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    Quote Originally Posted by JSR
    RD-33 is alot more morefull than EJ200 and F414.
    It is not, quite on the contrary. Current RD-33MKs won't make it over 54/88 kN at dry weight of 1,145 kg. The F414-400 makes 58/98 kN at dry weight of 1,110 kg.
    The EJ200 is the champ here, with 60/90 kN while weighing only 990 kg. The M88 is the lightest one, 50/75 kN at 897 kg dry weight.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,011
    We once again see, JSR is living in an alternative universe !
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    We once again see, JSR is living in an alternative universe !
    Yeah and you guys take his bait.. i don't know about you but my Ignore Function works perfectly. If People could just not QUOTE him, it would be even more perfectly.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,449
    There are differences between manufacturers in how dry weight is defined that will affect the numbers given above.

    Is RD-33MKM actually on track to begin deliveries in 2019? What about RD-93MA for JF-17?
    Last edited by Rii; 16th May 2017 at 10:11.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,011
    Agreed ! ... You are correct. Sorry.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    There are differences between manufacturers in how dry weight is defined that will affect the numbers given above.

    Is RD-33MKM actually on track to begin deliveries in 2019? What about RD-93MA for JF-17?
    Yes you would think that Klimov is working on it.. their exports depends on it. RD-93 is the same engine(core) as RD-33, but with different gearbox position. Like i said, Klimov need to step up the game if they want to stay relevant.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla
    Yes you would think that Klimov is working on it.. their exports depends on it. RD-93 is the same engine(core) as RD-33, but with different gearbox position. Like i said, Klimov need to step up the game if they want to stay relevant.
    As said, they are putting the figure up to 98 kN on their ad posters. At 1,055kg that would put the engine right on par with the EJ200 (which is sufficient for a mid-tech fighter like the FC-1). Of course, I expect the service life to suffer a bit here..

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,735
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    As said, they are putting the figure up to 98 kN on their ad posters. At 1,055kg that would put the engine right on par with the EJ200 (which is sufficient for a mid-tech fighter like the FC-1). Of course, I expect the service life to suffer a bit here..
    Does it say anything on dry thrust?
    I'm speculating here, but i think Klimov did the same as SATURN did with AL-41F1S, a bigger diameter Cold section, bigger fuel pumpes, and newer fan blades on the same hot section core.
    Last edited by haavarla; 16th May 2017 at 17:25.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    It is not, quite on the contrary. Current RD-33MKs won't make it over 54/88 kN at dry weight of 1,145 kg. The F414-400 makes 58/98 kN at dry weight of 1,110 kg.
    The EJ200 is the champ here, with 60/90 kN while weighing only 990 kg. The M88 is the lightest one, 50/75 kN at 897 kg dry weight.
    These are paper specification not real world performance. MIG29 is now larger airframe than EF with less advance material and still had 5 wet stations with all the high performance characteristics of classic MIG29. see the MIG35 19km altitude , 3500 km range and mach 2.25 top speed. Rafale has the weakest engine I doubt anyone using it for single engine application.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    Those paper specs are written according to the real world performance..

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    MIG/Klimov has alot more credibility than most others. It certainly not some thing by committee.

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    External weopon load is 7 tons. It's approaching Flanker.

    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...mig-35-fighter
    The difference is based on the use of a more advanced “integrated electro-optical system,” which United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) general designer Sergei Korotkov described as “multispectral” because it uses sensors operating in multiple wavebands of the light spectrum. In his turn, UAC president Yuri Slyusar said the “renewed MiG-35” will also have a modern laser system, without being specific.The MiG-35 relies on Klimov RD-33MK engines from the MiG-29K/KUB. An engine replacement can be completed in field conditions within 58 minutes, “which is one of the best figures in the world,” the manufacturer says.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    Super Hornet has up to 8 tons external payload.. Typhoon can do 9 tons..

  18. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    Have you seen those 9tons on EF ? and both EF/F18 use extensive composite materials If MiG use same percentage it will be able to lift 12 ton with much higher speed and altitude.

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    6x GBU-10, 4x AIM-120C, 2x IRIS-T, 1x 1,000 liter EFT. That's over 7,500 kg. If you replace AMRAAMs by Meteors and centreline fuel tank by a 1,500 liter version, you get another 620 kg, making the total loadout of almost 8,200 kg.

    12 ton? that's utter nonsense.. the MiG-35 only has 9 hardpoints, that would be over 1,300 kg per hardpoint, such load would be impossible to achieve even if the structure was able to hold it..

    Last edited by MSphere; 17th May 2017 at 00:08.

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    EF this load out is for show. There are plenty of pics RSAF EF that is carrying far below it. I want to see 5 fuel tanks picture . This plane is not rated for 9 tons

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,274
    You can see the huge afterburner with this load.

  22. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    Quote Originally Posted by JSR
    EF this load out is for show. There are plenty of pics RSAF EF that is carrying far below it. I want to see 5 fuel tanks picture . This plane is not rated for 9 tons
    Oh, yes, Typhoon is rated for nine tons.. It is the MiG-35 which isn't..

    Quote Originally Posted by JSR
    You can see the huge afterburner with this load.
    Here is one without afterburner.. I hope it makes you sleep better now..

    Last edited by MSphere; 17th May 2017 at 00:54.

  23. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,386
    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    You can see the huge afterburner with this load.
    ............
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7180f362b1c9cd21b08ee22060aeb36a.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	61.1 KB 
ID:	253475   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	_GLD2381.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	92.2 KB 
ID:	253476   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Eurofighter-Typhoon-026.preview.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	18.9 KB 
ID:	253477   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PavewayMk84.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	14.1 KB 
ID:	253478  

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,661
    No aircraft regularly operates with maximum loads. It can be done but has impact on the airframe stress and overall service life. Of course, a 9t rated aircraft copes with 5 tons of ordnance much easier than a 6t rated one..

    Typical loadout of Rafales over Libya was two/four MICA IRs and two or three drop tanks.. plus six AASM Hammers on triple racks or four GBU-12s and a Damocles. That means anywhere between 4.7 and 7.2 tons. Quite impressive, although it has to be noted that much of that could be saved by using CFTs.
    Last edited by MSphere; 17th May 2017 at 09:53.

  25. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,011
    Do we again need to trash a thread - here on the FC-31 - with a penis-contest on MiG-29 vs €F ???
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  26. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere
    6x GBU-10, 4x AIM-120C, 2x IRIS-T, 1x 1,000 liter EFT. That's over 7,500 kg.
    Slight correction, those are ASRAAMs and EPWIIs (1,000lb warhead) and I think it's about 10,000lbs. 6 x 1,000lb + 4x375lb + ~2,000lb = 2x200lb.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSR
    EF this load out is for show. There are plenty of pics RSAF EF that is carrying far below it. I want to see 5 fuel tanks picture . This plane is not rated for 9 tons
    A load-out of similar weight was used in operations against Libya. 4x1,000lb + 2x2000lb + 4x375lb + 2x200lb + 500lb = 10,400lb.



    5 fuel tanks you won't see, it only has 3 wet points.
    Last edited by Ryan; 17th May 2017 at 18:05.

  27. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,011
    Can we stay on topic please ???

    I really have enough of the penis-contests, colour-discussions and nationalistic chest-bumping.

    This is the FC-31 thread and not - since nearly a complete page - a discussion on what can the €F carry under what conditions in comparison to the Fulcrum-M !
    And if there's nothing new on the FC-31 it's plain and simple better to shut up.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  28. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,031
    ^ so no new comparisons or analysis coming out of chinese outlets?

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Eastern Switzerland
    Posts
    1,998
    @ MSphere
    6x GBU-10, 4x AIM-120C, 2x IRIS-T, 1x 1,000 liter EFT. That's over 7,500 kg. If you replace AMRAAMs by Meteors and centreline fuel tank by a 1,500 liter version, you get another 620 kg, making the total loadout of almost 8,200 kg.
    Not quite. Those are not GBU-10s, but UK Paveway II 1000 lb bombs. They're 540 kg I think. Stations 2/12 and 4/10 don't support 1000 kg stores, my guess is 750 kg tops. 1500 l tank doesn't exist and if it would, it wouldn't fit at the center station.

    Heaviest load possible today is 1x 1000 l tank, 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM, 2x Taurus, 4x UK Paveway II. That's ~1000 + 4x 185 + 2x 90 + 2x 1400 + 4x 540 kg or 6880 kg. Add a bit for pylons and ammo and you're at around 7500 kg. 9000 kg might be theoritical with planned but never introduced 2000 l tanks and/or CFTs.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  30. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,011
    ^ so no new comparisons or analysis coming out of chinese outlets?
    No problem with that, but if You look at the last posts they all circle around when the €F was is or was able to carry what load under what circumstances and at best in comparison to the mighty MiG-29/RD-33-combo. This second page does not even contain one single notion of the FC-31.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES