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Thread: WWII flights To Lisbon

  1. #121
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    A question.

    The photo of 43-38327 is attributed to "LIFE 'Ferry Command' June 1942". There is website called 'originallifemagazines.com' (offering old issues - but quite pricey) that allows you to check the contents of each issue. I have been through all five issues for June 1942 (and a few issues either side of that) but can find no mention of an article or "photographic essay" on Ferry Command. There was one on "Atlantic Convoy" (7 July 1942) and one on "Air Cargo Transport" (10 August 1942) but I didn't find "Ferry Command".

    Maybe the photo was taken in June 1942 but appeared in a much later issue - so to the question .....

    Does anyone know which issue of LIFE carried the "Ferry Command" piece?

  2. #122
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    On my trawling (by way of the inter-NET) for that "Ferry Command" piece in LIFE, I did come across this - a Pan Am Clipper on the cover of the 20 October 1941 issue:
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  3. #123
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    https://books.google.co.uk/books/abo...d=R1cEAAAAMBAJ

    Ian...About 8 years ago Google struck a deal with LIFE magazine to scan and put online the whole LIFE photographic archive, several million negatives and prints, many of which had probably not been seen 'printed' by their photographers let alone published in LIFE. The first site they set up for their display still exists on the net but the sesrch engine, never good, is now completely scuppered. There is a newer initiative called Google Arts and Culture where you can find Ferry Command (best using Google Chrome browser not Internet Explorer) https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/beta/ put Life Ferry Command in the search box
    Next Google Books digitized the whole printed magazine run of Life magazine and you can search and read them online ...link at top...put Ferry Command in the search box and click 'all issues' tab..plenty of returns but the photo essay may not have been used
    Last edited by longshot; 2nd June 2017 at 15:07.

  4. #124
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    Thanks for the tip (rather, tips) - very helpful. In a completely different context, I'm currently working though some airline flight schedules for 1966, but, later today, will check out the links you posted. Many thanks, again.

    Meanwhile, here’s something I found earlier. The image is not great quality. It’s from an American newspaper for 29 June 1939 and shows ‘Dixie Clipper’ leaving New York the day before. The captions are self-explanatory. It was a Page One story but this image was on Page Three, where there were other reports about flying boat operations at that time.
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 2nd June 2017 at 17:19.

  5. #125
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    NC25675 was not built as a DC-3A. It was built for KLM with R-1820s. It was due to arrive in Holland July 1939, but delivery was postponed due to issues with the DC-5s that were in the same shipment. Then WW2 broken out in September 1939, and the airline suffered major reduction of routes and suffered financially and operationally. The DC-3, which was officially reserved in December 1939, was officially handed back to Douglas early 1940 and converted to DC-3A for United by April 1940.

  6. #126
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    There is a very good book called Rosie's War about civilian Rosemary Say's escape from wartime France in 1942 after being trapped there in mid 1940. She gets out via Spain and Portugal and flies back to England via Foynes on a ticket paid for by her father.The price was £35..15s..6d which is close to £35.77p. The book is in the first person but actually written by her daughter Juliana Holland. I think Miss Say flew from Lisbon on Boeing 314 G-AGBZ Bristol on the night of 9/10 March 1942 arriving Foynes morning of the 10th* then onto Poole on the 13th March either on Short G class G-AFCI Golden Hind or the shuttle C class G-AEUD Cordelia
    * there was a KLM /BOAC DC-2 landplane later that night G-AGBH but it went direct to Whitchurch.
    I don't know if the fare on the flying boat route was the same as the landplane
    Last edited by longshot; 2nd June 2017 at 21:48.

  7. #127
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    Thanks for the tip about LIFE magazine. I found the following in that 20 Oct 41 issue, the cover of which is shown in Post # 258 (above): three Pan Am Clippers at Horta.
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  8. #128
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    Taken at Lisbon 1939.

  9. #129
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    Once again, a photo I hadn't seen before. Thanks, Duggy. The flying boats came into Cabo Ruivo, a district of Lisbon very close to where the new Oriente railway station is located. At that point, the River Tagus is very wide, more like a river basin. The Vasco de Gama bridge now crosses that stretch of water and that is the longest bridge in Europe at 7.5 miles approx. The Tagus is more like a 5 mile x 5 mile lake there. It's hardly surprising that you can't see the distant shore in that photograph.

  10. #130
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    Not wishing to take anything away from a very nice image, but I'm pretty confident that is a composite photo. It was fairly common practice at the time, and this is a good example of the art. Compare the apparent wing anhedral with the plane of the flat tailplane. It's too much, and the area around the wingroot looks too bland. I'm also having trouble matching the shadows on the nose to the people who's shadows they should be.

    Now look in front of the engines - you can see the far shore. Not much, but it's there. There's also something that isn't part of the aircraft above the engines. Behind the wing, though, there's nothing. I reckon it's simply been edited out because it was too complicated to make it look right. Simple for a good retoucher to add the aerial wires back in to give it an air of authenticity.

  11. #131
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    The photo has not been altered in anyway.
    You obviously do not know your 314's.
     photo Boeing 314 Wing.jpg
    Regards Duggy

  12. #132
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    Maybe there has been some ‘airbrushing’ of the fuselage, as it looks rather ‘smooth’; perhaps the photo was cleaned up to remove any outward signs of ‘wear and tear’.

    I was not concerned about the shadows on the front fuselage and the white uniforms do seem to be reflected on the underside of the wing.

    I agree that, when you drew our attention to the wing and the tailplane, lazy8, they didn’t look quite right but, when I examined a line drawing (see below), I was much less concerned. I think the low sun (possibly coming from the west in the evening, with a warm glow) gives a bit of a false impression.
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 4th June 2017 at 23:47.

  13. #133
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  14. #134
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    Thanks for link, Duggy - all very interesting indeed.

    I think the photo below shows the difference, visually at least, in the angle of the wing and the tailplane:
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  15. #135
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    Since I find it so difficult to read extended documents on-screen, Duggy, I've taken the liberty of placing the text of your attachment into a WORD document - I trust that's OK. The role and actions of civilian crews in WWII fascinated me as a youth and, as is evident in this thread, I believe, continues to do so at this end of my life. I didn't know the story of 'Pacific Clipper' immediately following Pearl Harbor, so that made it doubly welcome.

    There is a reference to a 'video' at the end. Could you please give details of that.

    I notice that it was entitled "Pan Am - The Secret Weapon' and it may be worth saying that, even before Pearl Harbor, Pan Am's role in WWII had been publicised. The LIFE article, in the aforementioned 20 Oct 41 issue, was entitled: "Juan Trippe - Pan American Airway's Young Chief Helps Run A Branch Of U.S. Defense".

    That article included a Pan Am route map, not two months before Pearl Harbor, which may help others reading the account of Pacific Clipper's 'adventures' - or, at least, parts of it:
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  16. #136
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  17. #137
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    Thanks for the video, Duggy. Very interesting to see.

    I don't know if you are familiar with this document ["The Wartime Atlantic routes of Pan American Airways"] or its contents but, in case not, here it is:

    https://www.wasc.org.uk/NewFiles/Pan...troduction.pdf
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 6th June 2017 at 14:18.

  18. #138
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    And, for those more interested in KLM's DC-3 flights to and from Lisbon, this bit of newsreel footage shows one of these in the opening sections:

    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/am...n-no-1-arrives

    It shows a KLM DC-3 arriving at Whitchurch, though the airport is not given by name. And is that a Flamingo taking off from Whitchurch towards London at the end? To Heston, perhaps?

    Here are a couple of stills from the newsreel footage:
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 6th June 2017 at 14:15.

  19. #139
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    The Flamingo is likely heading for Hendon, 24 squadron. The pathe software won't play on my Android tablet (Google technology) but Pathe have put all their online archive on youtube (Google technology)
    https://youtu.be/x9VYULwnJ5U ..

    The newsreel of Ambassador Winant arriving shows a KLM/BOAC DC-3 on finals
    https://youtu.be/t27RTNYY-4I

  20. #140
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    Thank you, longshot. That was the British Movietone News clip. This is the Pathe News version of the same event:

    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ne...dor+In+Britain

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TohL7pHavMg
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 6th June 2017 at 16:11.

  21. #141
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    I've brightened the shot of the US Ambassador's KLM DC-3 landing. Where was it filmed?
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  22. #142
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    Thanks Ian for the ["The Wartime Atlantic routes of Pan American Airways"],appreciated mate.
    I had not seen that.

  23. #143
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    You're most welcome, Duggy, but I only 'found' it; John Wilson did all the work and put it on-line.

    A different matter: there is well-known photograph of BOAC aircraft on the apron at Portela Airport, which opened on 15 October 1942. The photo was taken at least a year after that. I've cut out the grass and the sky and limited it just to the aircraft. There is at least one other photograph taken the same day; there are probably more. Perhaps the actual date is known by somebody reading this, in which case, please let me know.
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  24. #144
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    Just to add that, in the above photograph, the aircraft are (from Left to Right):

    DC-3 G-AGBD (formerly of KLM); DC-3 G-AGFY (with Liberator G-AGFR behind); Liberator G-AGFS (with DC-3 G-AGHS behind); DC-3 G-AGFZ; and an unidentified Liberator G-AGF?.

    I have a view as to which this unidentified Liberator may be but I do not know for sure. Does anyone know its registration?
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 6th June 2017 at 23:59.

  25. #145
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    Photo was taken between 15-9-43 and 11-3-44 (when 'FZ was written off).

    Note the difference in elevator clamps. The C-47s have the standard clamps on the elevators, the KLM DC-3 has a gust lock in the cockpit fitted to the controls, with the elevator in full up position. All KLM prewar DC-3s were fitted with these, easily removed before flying. Post-war, they were replaced by the standard external clamps on the C-47s. Famous KLM captain Gerrit Geysendorffer was killed along with his 16 passengers and 5 cocrewmembers on take off from Copenhagen in January 1947 when the aircraft took off with the clamp still fitted. After this, the clamps were modified to be attached to the rudder clamp, which is nearly impossible to miss if still fitted during taxying. ONe of those killed that day was singer Grace Moore, after which Elvis' Graceland was named, incidently.

  26. #146
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    Thanks for your information, ericmunk, 15 September 1943 being the day that G-AGHS was registered.

    I shall check the elevator clamps, now that you've pointed it out.

  27. #147
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    This thread is getting more interesting all the time!! Good stuff ......
    Jur

  28. #148
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    I hope the link below shows you something new and that you find it as interesting, Jur.

    It's another bit of old news film, this time about KLM air hostesses in 1939. Unfortunately, the newsreel footage is cut off after about 2 minutes but it does feature a few shots of KLM aircraft.

    I'll put up the two links first and, later, post a few stills from the film with comments.


    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ai...ss-1/query/KLM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWxoozrHjkg

  29. #149
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    This is a still from the above newsreel. I have lightened it quite a bit to try to identify the aircraft.

    The DC-3 is clearly PH-AST. Behind it is DC-2 (PH-)AKT.

    On the right is, I think, another DC-2. The end of the registration, under the wing, looks like it should be "(PH-)ALF" but, since that aircraft crashed in July 1937 and the newsreel comes from 1939, then it is presumably PH-ALE. If I'm correct, then this is the KLM DC-2 that became G-AGBH and has featured in an earlier post here.
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  30. #150
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    Another still.

    At the end of the newsreel is a clip of DC-3 PH-ASP landing. At one point it flies ‘over’ what appears to be a Ju-52, the registration of which is not too clear but ends in “GV”, I think.

    Could this be SABENA’s OO-AGV?

    And, if I’ve got this wrong, don’t hesitate to say, I shan’t be at all offended.
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