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Thread: WWII flights To Lisbon

  1. #31
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    Not about the Lisbon route but a follow-on to the discussion, above, about DDL's Fw-200 Condor OY-DAM. The image below should show the 'neutrality' colour scheme before the later adoption of the all-over orange paint scheme.

    From at least one report, the British authorities thought that the white crosses on the Danish flags might be mistaken for German crosses and insisted on the overall orange finish for DDL's flights to Shoreham, the designated airport for the London service in the late-1939/early-1940 period.
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 6th May 2017 at 13:54.

  2. #32
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    BOAC's Curtiss CW-20 G-AGDI St Louis made it's first trips outside the UK in early 1942 to Lisbon en-route to Bathurst Gambia but no photos exist of it at Lisbon....this is probably at Whitchurch...St Louis also flew the more dangerous routes to Malta and Stockholm in 1942 (pic from the SDASM/flickr collection )

     photo I-G-AGDI-CW-20x800_zpsykcgvnuj.jpg
    Last edited by longshot; 6th May 2017 at 22:16.

  3. #33
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    According to Nils Mathisrud's new book on THE STOCKHOLM RUN, the Curtiss Wright CW-20 G-AGDI made five trips there in 1942. The first arrived at Bromma Airport on 5 April 1942 and last departed Bromma on 11 December 1942.

    A J Jackson says it had been "Ferried to Prestwick by A.C.P. Johnstone on12.11.41 in 9 hours 40 minutes. Used on long haul routes and Gibraltar-Malta run in 1942". He also says that BOAC converted it to a 24-seater but I'm pretty sure I read that it was used to haul freight on the Stockholm run but I'd have to check that.

    I think this photo is better known and wondered where it was taken but I've just found a note that the location is Gibraltar.
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 7th May 2017 at 09:49.

  4. #34
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    I just found a note in my PC files (a note I had forgotten) and these are the two relevant parts:


    It made five return flights between Leuchars and Stockholm, at irregular intervals in 1942. According to one source, the aircraft was used on the UK-Gibraltar-Malta service between May and September that year. Another simply says it did the Gibraltar-Malta run in 1942.

    Referring to a flying boat service that started in March 1942 and flew Poole-Gibraltar-Malta-Gibraltar-Malta-Gibraltar-Poole, the Air Ministry account says that this plane was “helped during May, when the blitz was at its strongest, by the C.W.20 land-plane Saint Louis”. It referred to “occasional flights between Gibraltar and Malta, using the airfield at Luqa”. Luqa was a principal target of the bombing raids and St. Louis “had to be unloaded, refuelled and reloaded in a single night … operations that were always carried out during air raids” when “the only illumination was the reflection of the probing searchlights .. augmented by the glare from a burning building or the flashes of bomb explosions. The usual rule was to continue work until the searchlight cones started to move directly over the airfield, then to jump for cover as the bombs came down”.

    With the expiry of its Certificate of Airworthiness on 21 February 1943, St. Louis flew to Whitchurch, Bristol for disposal. On 24 October 1943, it went from there, to Filton, Bristol, Taken off the aircraft register on 29 October 1943, it was then dismantled/broken up at Filton.


    I probably drew on Peter Moss's account and the HMSO Merchant Airmen booklet.


    Nils Mathisrud says G-AGDI was "scrapped in November 1943".
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 7th May 2017 at 13:19.

  5. #35
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    Curtiss CW-20 G-AGDI St Louis, with BOAC including it's demise
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  6. #36
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    That was terrific - so much detail regarding G-AGDI, longshot. Thank you. Can you please tell me the source?

  7. #37
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    Since this thread started with KLM DC-3s, I thought this photograph of three of them at Schiphol in the late 1930s might be of interest:
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  8. #38
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    This is another photograph of Schiphol in the 1930s, this time an aerial view. The middle aircraft appears to be DDL's Ju-52 OY-DAL, mentioned in post # 29 above. The one on the right is presumably a DC-2 of KLM - am I correct?
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  9. #39
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    Ian....
    Post#35...CW-20 sources, books like 'Blockade Runners', BA Museum, internet, Air-Britain abix forum for the CW-20's last days....
    Post#37 ...nearest is a DC-3, then 2 DC-2s
    Post #38...yes DC-2 on right
    Last edited by longshot; 7th May 2017 at 23:40.

  10. #40
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    #37: nearest is a KLM DC-3. Then KLM DC-2 PH-ALD "Djalak" (lost Schiphol May1940), then a CSK DC-2.

  11. #41
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    Thanks, once again, longshot, for your response.

    Thank you particularly for the correction re the aircraft types. The two photos come from a book on Art Deco airports and I wasn't too sure about the caption in the first photo (the second had no aircraft details at all). I was once a member of a winning team in an Air-Britain aircraft recognition contest, the youngest and lowest-scoring member, I should add, but a member nevertheless (and I still have the page from AIR BRITAIN DIGEST to prove it) but it was well over 50 years ago and I am more than a little rusty these days.

    I do have the BLOCKADE RUNNERS book (and the more recent STOCKHOLM RUN book) and I have had occasional contact with the BA Museum (not about G-AGDI, though). The AB-IX forums are for A-B members, which doesn't apply in my case. I had wondered if the scan you posted re G-AGDI's service history came from a particular publication.

  12. #42
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    https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/beta/u/0/asset/air-aero-1920-2-folders/5QGHe7NmDpgxAA?ms=%7B"x"%3A0.47294075291685006%2C"y"%3A0.4176570870639006%2C"z"%3A10.378986553059733%2C"size"%3A%7B"width"%3A0.6292660335134237%2C"height"%3A0.5136642467061758%7D%7D

    Ian, check your PMs...
    It shouldn't be overlooked that much of the flying to Lisbon (often en-route to Bathurst, Gambia) in WWII was done by flying boats, from Poole and Foynes (Rineanna) , Eire, but they weren't photographed much. I think this shot of G-AFCK Golden Horn was taken at Lisbon during repairs before it crashed in the river Tagus
    Last edited by longshot; 8th May 2017 at 12:57.

  13. #43
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    I've sent an e-mail, longshot.

  14. #44
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    There is a pretty well-known photograph, taken in either 1943 or 1944, probably the former, showing seven BOAC aircraft on the tarmac at Lisbon (four Daks and three Libs). Though the aircraft are distant, the photo is sharp and most of the registrations can be seen. On the extreme left is G-AGBD, one of the ex-KLM DC-3s. Here it is, a little out-of-focus because of the distance from which it was photographed and the wide angle of the full photo, but clear enough, I think
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 8th May 2017 at 18:01.

  15. #45
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    The photo of G-AFCK, longshot, for which you provided the long google link in Post #42 , appears in one of the A J Jackson books on British civil aircraft with the caption, "'Golden Horn' being launched at Lisbon after wing-tip float repairs, January 1943".

    However, this caption seems to contradict his text which reads, "During a test flight after an engine change at Lisbon on January 9, 1943, 'Golden Horn' suffered an engine fire, crashing into the Tagus with loss of 13 occupants, including Capt. J.H.Lock, pioneer Hillman, Imperial Airways and Railway Air Services pilot.".

    The photograph below appeared over 40 years ago in an issue of AEROPLANE MONTHLY accompanying a Peter Moss series on BOAC in WWII. The caption said, "Short S.26 G-AFCK Golden Horn, minus a float at Cabo Ruivo, Lisbon, in April 1942. This aircraft caught fire in the air and crashed into the River Tagus while on a test flight from Lisbon on January 9th, 1943".

    It would appear that the float problem was in April 1942 and that the engine replacement was in January 1943. If the photograph in Post #42 was just before the crash, then G-AFCK was not being launched following "float repairs"; if it were taken following "float repairs", then surely it was taken some time in 1942, not January 1943. Anyone know any different?
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 8th May 2017 at 18:00.

  16. #46
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    Maybe this photo should go in the 'Liberator' thread but the caption says, "Liberator III G-AGFP, alias FL917, flew on the BOAC routes from Lyneham to Lisbon and West Africa until it reverted to RAF ownership in January 1945", so I thought I'd put it here.
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  17. #47
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    Golden Horn's first accident, which damaged the float, was on 26 April 42; it was servicable again on 13 May.

  18. #48
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    The Popperfoto agency got issued some rare Kodak colour film to record Berwick , a frequent visitor to Lisbon....here at the home base Poole
    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...8408?s=594x594

    The flying boat flights to Lisbon were touched on in this thread from 2015 http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...5-BOAC-Special
    Last edited by longshot; 8th May 2017 at 22:28.

  19. #49
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    Thanks for the above two replies.

    I have found another copy of the G-AFCK photo shown in that long google thread (Post # 42) and the caption reads, "Short S.26 G-AFCK, Golden Horn just airborne at Cabo Ruivo, Lisbon, in April 1942". I'm not sure about the 'just airborne' descriptor (maybe a tongue-in-cheek comment - who knows?) and we can't see the port wing to establish whether the float has been refitted or not. The photo may therefore show G-AFCK coming ashore for repair. For me, though, the crowds make it look as though it's about to be relaunched, in which case (as per lazy8's reply), it would be May 1942.

    I look forward to reading the previous thread on the BOAC issue of AEROPLANE, longshot, but it won't be tonight, I'm afraid. A quick glance shows it to be a very detailed thread and I look forward to reading/absorbing it.
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 8th May 2017 at 22:40.

  20. #50
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    I have started to look at the link that longshot posted to a previous discussion about the BOAC special in AEROPLANE MONTHLY in 2015. I was particularly struck by the 1940 advert for BOAC's wartime Lisbon service - or should I say BOA, as that was the nomenclature used. I've seen "B.O.A." in quite a few articles written around that time.

    The top strapline in the BOA advert is: Os vehlos amigos sao os melhores [Old friends are the best] - a reference, I guess, to a treaty going back to the late 1300s and still in force at the time

    The principal contact address is not BOA(C)'s but the local Royal Mail agents, as the airline did not have its own They opened their own office there around October 1942. It was in the Avenida de Liberdade and the headline in FLIGHT magazine was "B.O.A. IN PORTUGAL" but the sign above the door in the accompanying photograph said, more simply, "BRITISH AIRWAYS" (no 'OVERSEAS' at all). I seem to have read very recently that an edict went out from on high that all signs of "BRITISH AIRWAYS" (pun intended) should be expunged in favour of the longer name
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 10th May 2017 at 00:20.

  21. #51
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    Captain Dacre Watson's RAeS lecture about BOAC's early years, has been archived with graphics in PDF form https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...=1494376513982

  22. #52
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    Thank you, longshot, for the link to Capt. Wilson's lecture; I've printed it and will read it later today.

  23. #53
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    BOAC's G-AFCZ 'Clare' frequently called at Lisbon en route Bathurst....here photographed at La Guardia during the Battle of Britain by LIFE's Dmitri Kessel but never publicly seen until the Google digitization of the LIFE material in 2009  photo Clareside800_zps115212c1.jpg

  24. #54
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    It's great photo. I wonder if he took any other shots.

    This photo below is nowhere as good in quality. It is from an April 1940 edition of FLIGHT and shows a Pan Am Clipper moving away from the La Guardia terminal heading for Lisbon:
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  25. #55
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    If you search 'Pan American Clipper' in Google Arts & Culture (best with Chrome browser) https://www.google.com/culturalinsti...ican%20clipper , you get shots of the New York to Lisbon service...here's socialite Eve Curie leading fellow passengers off at Cabo Ruivo pier, Lisbon, early 1940?

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    Last edited by longshot; 5th June 2017 at 14:14.

  26. #56
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    In late-1943, John Yoxall wrote an article for FLIGHT about a journey he made in a series of Dakotas, from Britain to North Africa, then to Italy, down to Malta, returning west over North Africa and back to Britain. Most of the time, he travelled in a military Dakota. It isn't quite clear if the final two or three legs back home were by military or civil aircraft but the first part of the journey was by BOAC to Lisbon and then from Lisbon to Rabat, also by BOAC.

    I'm not sure if this will work but I've clipped those parts of the article that relate to travelling by BOAC (you may have to click and then click again to make them large enough to read).
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    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 10th May 2017 at 20:54.

  27. #57
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    Thanks, longshot, for all the Clipper images.

    A friend who used to work for a photo agency rescued a bunch of photographs about to be 'RTP' after digitisation and gave me a few of old New York and the like. One, as I recall, showed a Clipper flying over the Statue of Liberty. I can't think where they are at this moment but, if a lightbulb goes off in my head, I'll extract it, scan it and post it here. The Clipper was quite small in the photograph but it's an unusual shot, I think.

    The Statue of Liberty with the Clipper behind (a drawing and with the Clipper much, much bigger than in the photo I mentioned) formed part of Pan Am's advertising of its Atlantic service. There were two versions; one had the top strapline "WINGS TO EUROPE" and the other, "WINGS TO AMERICA". They had the same bottom strapline, "Via PAN AMERCAN". The designer was Paul George Lawler and they were in use around 1940.

    This poster (the Clipper above the symbol of liberty) was quite subtle compared with some of Pan Am's other wartime posters. There was one featuring a Stratoliner flying over a globe of the world with Pan Am's route network shown; it was headed "Vital to Victory" with the sub-heading, "These World Air-Transport Routes - which are hastening Victory - were pioneered by Pan American before Pearl Harbor" - their underlining! (Can I have the trowel back, please!).

    The full name of the New York end is given, in one book, as the International Marine Air Terminal at New York's Municipal Airport No.2 at North Beach - quite where the name ends and the location begins, I'm not too sure. The first scheduled transatlantic Clipper service, in May 1939, left from Port Washington - was this the same or a different place? It was a mail flight

    Their Atlantic route included a refuelling stop at Horta in the Azores before Lisbon and the Clipper then flew on to Marseille - for a while, at least.

    In March-April 1938, there was a proving flight to Lisbon and Marseille that then flew on to Southampton and Yankee Clipper stayed here a week. Are there any photos of the Clipper in Southampton, I wonder. I'm sure there must be.
    Last edited by ianwoodward9; 10th May 2017 at 22:31.

  28. #58
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    This is an American newspaper clipping from January 1939 reporting the agreement to allow Pan Am (and any other airlines) to start transatlantic air services. There is quite a bit about the soon-to-be-available Boeing 314s
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  29. #59
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     photo AnzacClipperLGA1800_zpsf2oqb2vd.jpg

    Port Washington was inconvenient and several miles further from Manhattan than North Beach which became La Guardia in 1940. Another 'lost' LIFE photo digitized by Google was this 1942 shot off La Guardia by Bernard Hoffman of NC18611 Anzac Clipper which started to visit Lisbon in 1943
    Last edited by longshot; 11th May 2017 at 17:43.

  30. #60
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     photo Clipper800_zpslr1qxvvd.jpg

     photo SikorskyAEA_zpsrysuynuo.jpg

    The same La Guardia set by LIFE's Bernard Hoffman which used to come up by searching Anzac Clipper contained this Boeing 314 take-off shot and of one of Pan Am's competitor AEA's 3 Sikorsky VS-44 s which are recorded visiting Lisbon only once in many Transatlantic crossings ..... one of these has survived but no Boeing 314s have.
    In 2015 I tried to get LIFE's successor TIME's online site interested in their La Guardia photos for the 75th anniversary of it's opening but got no response (these last two shots took afair bit of restoration)
    Last edited by longshot; 11th May 2017 at 18:41.

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