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Thread: Westland Wallace

  1. #1
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    Westland Wallace

    I've been working on a long term project to produce a set of drawings for the Westland Wallace and Wapiti. One area of which there seems to be very little information about, is the Wallace II canopy. The RAF Museum example doesn't have a canopy but it does have the front fittings for the tubular rails on which the pilots forwards sliding canopy travels.

    There are the two well known pictures of the canopy on page 447 of The Armament of British Aircraft 1909-1939 by H.F. King but these lack the close up detail which I need to see how the system works, especially how the rear of the rails are supported.

    Can any one help please.

    Who is now the point of contact at the Westland Heritage group as I managed to carelessly lose these some time ago.

    John
    Last edited by John Aeroclub; 18th April 2017 at 08:53.

  2. #2
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    Hi John

    I have a few Wallace parts if you want to measure them.

    Cheers

  3. #3
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    PM sent

    Cheers

    John
    Last edited by John Aeroclub; 18th April 2017 at 22:35.

  4. #4
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    I thought I had a drawing of a Wallace canopy, but it's an RCAF Wapiti.


    Chris

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    Chris

    Is this a official drawing or is it from the Peter Green plans in a model magazine. If it's an official Canadian source I'd be most interested.

    John

  6. #6
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    Hello, John.

    The drawing I have is on the back cover of High Flight Volume 1 Number 1. It was published by Canada's Wings Inc. in 1980. On close examination, it's probably not the best drawing but there's not a lot to choose from.



    Chris

  7. #7
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    Thank you for this Chris. It is similar to the one that Peter Green drew for Scale Aircraft modelling and although I've seen few photos I'm not happy with the flat deck behind the gun ring also the fin has some of the usual errors.

    Cheers

    John

  8. #8
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    The only photo I can find.

    Dave
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
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    There are a few Wallace GA drawings in the RAF Museum Hendon archive

  10. #10
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    Dave. Thank you, that is superb and it is the first clear picture I've seen of the canopy pushed forwards and what I've suspected in that the "box" behind the observer (which would do him a nasty injury in the event of a crash) is to stow the observers chest type parachute. It also confirms exactly where the Lewis gun barrel channel is. Thank you for sharing.

    Schneiderman Thank you. I have been able to access some wing drawings but I will look again.

    Thanks again

    John

  11. #11
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    Here is a picture from the same publication. Again, not the best, but all I have. John, do you happen to know/remember which issue of Scale Aircraft Modeling that drawing was in?




    Chris

  12. #12
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    These are the Wallace drawings in their catalogue

    MAC Number Drawing Numbers Drawing Title
    10088 58743 G.A. of Westland Wallace Mk.IIPegasus IIM.3engine
    10278 46046 G.A. of chassis
    10279 46062 G.A. of armament
    10440 47830 G.A. of front fuselage
    10494 46106 G.A. of engine mounting - pegasus engine
    10496 47831 G.A. of rear fuselage
    10499 46304 Arrangement of axle chassis
    10500 48584 G.A. of rudder
    10524 37025 G.A. of aerofoil auto slot gear

  13. #13
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    Gentlemen. Again thank you.

    Chris; I had seen that picture before and I tried to work out how the pilot gets in and out. I've come to the conclusion that the pilot was issued the aeroplane and then they nailed him in for the winter. . Unlike the Wallace it doesn't slide and I can't see any obvious hinges and it appears to taper as per the Green drawing. The area where the Canadian Wapiti has the flat is where the normal Wapiti radio was sited. The Green drawing is in Vol 27 No 2 April 2005.


    Schneiderman ; Thank you, these numbers will be invaluable and thank you for producing your book on the "trophy" aeroplanes.

    John

  14. #14
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    John, at the bottom of this page are some photos showing the Wapiti canopy.

    http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian...e_version=true


    Chris

  15. #15
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    From the book of Westland aircraft.

    Dave
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  16. #16
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    Hi Dave I have this book. Both this drawing and the Wapiti drawing are awfully flawed. The cockpit is actually too far forwards and it's too wide. The rudder chord is too narrow (Wapiti same). But thanks for the thought.

    Chris. Thank you. A perfect explanation. The Wapiti wasn't pretty before they added that canopy...

    I have over time had the opportunity to measure every frame of the Wallace and I've drawn this up in my computer. I've also traced a Wapiti tech drawing and overlaid them to see where they touch, so to speak and from frame one to frame 10 they are virtually identical. There are three types of wing, two differing wing staggers, two different u/c rakes, two tailplanes and elevators with different chords, (DH 9 and Westland metal built) on Wapiti's alone. Not to mention the engines.

    It's my belief that the fin and rudder did not change from when it was sorted out on the first production example up to and including the Wallace, despite what several authors have inferred in well known tomes. The rudders have all been drawn too narrow and the Wapiti fuselages too Long in model drawings.

    Although the overall difference in length between a Wapiti IIa (Jupiter VIII) is 20", the difference in fuselage length between Frame 1 and the stern post is 24".(The supposedly missed out 2 ft) this 24" is the difference between the tail plane leading edge fittings of the Wapiti at Frame 10 and those same fittings found on the lengthened fuselage of the Wallace at Frame 11.

    I am also positive that the only long fuselage Wapiti V the RAF had was the former G-AAWA and no production Wapiti V's had long fuselages. The Wapiti V or VII, G-AAWA (or J9728 or PV.6 or P6 or the Everest expedition G-ACBR or finally K3488 as a Wallace) was the Joker in the pack being the original 'Triggers broom' as it metamorphosed several times. I think that it probably ended up as the Westland Westminster.

    John
    Last edited by John Aeroclub; 20th April 2017 at 08:47. Reason: Long not short! and additional info.

  17. #17
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    It is a honour to assist someone as famous in the modelling world as you, John. I'm quite chuffed.


    Chris

  18. #18
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    The drawing looks like the one in Aircraft of the Fighting Powers, many of the drawings in these publications were suspect.
    Robert Whitton,
    Edinburgh, Scotland

  19. #19
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    Chris ,
    Thank you for your input. and I welcome any comments and input by anyone who can pop another piece in the jigsaw of my aviation knowledge. It's like unraveling the Dead Sea scrolls, which incidentally probably contain a reference to G-AAWA.

    I've updated my post 16.

    Cheers

    John

  20. #20
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    Robert,

    Yes they were done by the same team at Harborough publishing (Aeromodeller) The Westland book was one of a proposed series of manufacturer profiles of which only three saw the light of day. Miles, Westland and Bristol. I believe that drawings were done for Hawker, Gloster and de Havilland but the books were never printed.

    John

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