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Thread: Restoration of Spitfire NH341

  1. #31
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    Today, we gain another flying Spit, but seemingly lose an airworthy Meteor ( a hugely significant and rare type) , and whilst the Spit may be 10 times the ££value of a Meteor, sadly on this day, I think we are rather worse off.
    Hopefully one day Meatboxes,Cranberries and a fair few newer jets will get the same treatment..Even today the USAF,s "legacy fleet" of 4th gen fighters are getting long in the tooth and will eventually be classified as "historical..We have technology and techniques today that people could only think as Science fiction back in the 1980,s when Warbirds started getting popular.Preserve what we have now for in 50 to a hundred years time what would we have to do to get a Desert Storm F18 into the air again?
    "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
    http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

  2. #32
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    The Meteor isn't lost per se. When did it last fly? Yes, it's moving to another country, but at least it will be regularly flown once more. Somebody in the U.K. could have taken it on, but nobody came forward.

  3. #33
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    I also raed the other day that MJ271 has started it's road towards airworthiness. Good news!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeBro View Post
    I also read the other day that MJ271 has started it's road towards airworthiness. Good news!
    MJ271 was on show to the privileged guests at last Saturday's event.

    My understanding is that MJ271 will now be rebuilt as a single seater.

    We can anticipate that 2019 should see it flying.

    Mark

    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12 View Post

    My understanding is that MJ271 will now be rebuilt as a single seater.

    Mark
    Thank goodness for that. Just a personal view, but I think the two seater conversions are horrendous. With the exception of the Grace Spitfire.
    I realize that having a seat in the back is a good revenue earner, but I just don't think they look right.
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  6. #36
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    I too think enough is enough when it come to two-seaters. And as for the two-seat Hurricane... It's looks horrid.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  7. #37
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    I am wondering with all these 2 seater spitfires to choose from, will it bring the price down for flights?

    Jason
    "For you Hilts one month solitary watching Downton Abbey"

  8. #38
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    The purpose of the trainer conversion was to.be a viable machine.
    Hence why the instructor was afforded the best possible view by raising his seating position.

    As for looks - the yellow scheme G-AIDN used to wear gives type the most justice!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgit158 View Post
    I am wondering with all these 2 seater spitfires to choose from, will it bring the price down for flights?
    I think the price will stay the same as the running costs won't change, I am looking at having a flight in 2018 and have been told the following prices for 2018,

    Boultbee £2750 for 30 minutes.

    Biggin Hill £2450 for 30 minutes.

    Classic wings £2450 for 25 minutes.

    Aero Legends £2750 for 20 minutes.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggy C View Post
    And as for the two-seat Hurricane... It's looks horrid.

    Moggy
    I always thought it was one like this that was being restored?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Daren Cogdon

    Spitfire fanatic

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Alan~ View Post
    Thank goodness for that. Just a personal view, but I think the two seater conversions are horrendous. With the exception of the Grace Spitfire.
    .
    And PT462 and MH367, plus PV202 in its original warbird incarnation.
    Daren Cogdon

    Spitfire fanatic

  12. #42
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    I would be interested to see one of the tandem Spits painted as a Russian Mk IX UTI.

  13. #43
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    This type of thread always goes the same way and reflects human nature in all its bizarre forms. Compromise is the best course.
    You have the right to like/love/loathe it. But accept that others do also.
    Accept it is a wonderful and beautiful achievement. Accept we have more original library type versions in museums to pore over if that is what you want. Accept others opinions but don't force yours on everyone. Accept that continual repetition of your opinion won't mean it is heard or necesssarily wanted. Most of all, accept that this is a tired argument and move on.

  14. #44
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    The hangar 11 IX will be painted as such (but not an UTI obviously).

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketeer View Post
    Accept that continual repetition of your opinion won't mean it is heard or necessarily wanted.
    Oh Lord! Isn't that the truth.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  16. #46
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    Need that 'Like' button...

  17. #47
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    The fact that these are essentially totally new builds - and all parties know it - makes me wonder why the CAA wouldn't allow you to just resurrect a no longer extant airframe of your choice?
    Doesn't seem logical.
    Have YOU used the "Will it be at Legends" joke yet today?

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D View Post
    The fact that these are essentially totally new builds - and all parties know it - makes me wonder why the CAA wouldn't allow you to just resurrect a no longer extant airframe of your choice?
    Doesn't seem logical.
    The CAA aren't stopping that at all - what makes you think they are? If you want to build a brand new ??? With a sequential serial number it's totally possible. All you have to do is buy the rights to the aircraft, which for most British types will probably link in some obscure way to BAE, obtain every single drawing for the aircraft including material specs and processes. Then of course you have to get all the approvals to become a manufacturer and design authority for the type, employ the staff to meet the legislative requirements. Then you'll need to maintain responsibility for the type, the continued monitoring of systems and incorporation of inspections when issues arise.

    All in all, probably many multiple times the value of the aircraft you wanted in the first instance, and that's if you can actually get the rights to the aircraft in the first place, which is highly unlikely with most types!

    The CAA however are certainly not stopping you from doing this. Too often I have to say, the uninformed do use the CAA as a reason for not doing something, often they are very wrong.

    FB

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerM View Post
    I think the price will stay the same as the running costs won't change, I am looking at having a flight in 2018 and have been told the following prices for 2018,

    Boultbee £2750 for 30 minutes.

    Biggin Hill £2450 for 30 minutes.

    Classic wings £2450 for 25 minutes.

    Aero Legends £2750 for 20 minutes.
    That is like "CompareTheMartlet.com"

  20. #50
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    Interesting that two of those operators use original, manufacturer factory converted Mk.IX TRAINER Spitfires and the other two will or do utilise airframes converted during their respective restoration/reconstruction/rebuild/resuscitation. It would therefore seem that if you want to fly in the original factory converted Aeroplane, you pay less!

  21. #51
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    So what is the actual operating costs involved, and how much of the asking price of these Spitfire flights is profit?
    Work! You don't know what work is. When I was a boy...

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideslip View Post
    So what is the actual operating costs involved, and how much of the asking price of these Spitfire flights is profit?

    That is quite a question, and there are all sorts of ways of arriving at the figure which suits you best ( a bit like a tax return!)

    For instance, do you include the cost of the capital tied up in the enterprise, or the expences incurred in the restoration, or hangarage, or 50 hour checks?

    If you expect one of the 'ride in a Spit' operators to come on here and roll out their business plan, I think you have a long wait !

    I suspect during a run of good serviceability it is moderately profitable but not riches beyond the dreams of avarice !


    Furthermore, demand for Spitfire rides is probably fairly inelastic, so there are inherent limits to expansion.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerM View Post

    Boultbee £2750 for 30 minutes.

    Biggin Hill £2450 for 30 minutes.

    Classic wings £2450 for 25 minutes.

    Aero Legends £2750 for 20 minutes.
    Obviously missing is a cost for ML407

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  24. #54
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    It doesn't seem that long ago that 30 minutes in 'IDN, hands on and aeros, was a £20 contribution toward the fuel. That is £230 in today's money.

    Mark

    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fournier Boy View Post
    The CAA aren't stopping that at all - what makes you think they are? If you want to build a brand new ??? With a sequential serial number it's totally possible. All you have to do is buy the rights to the aircraft, which for most British types will probably link in some obscure way to BAE, obtain every single drawing for the aircraft including material specs and processes. Then of course you have to get all the approvals to become a manufacturer and design authority for the type, employ the staff to meet the legislative requirements. Then you'll need to maintain responsibility for the type, the continued monitoring of systems and incorporation of inspections when issues arise.

    All in all, probably many multiple times the value of the aircraft you wanted in the first instance, and that's if you can actually get the rights to the aircraft in the first place, which is highly unlikely with most types!

    The CAA however are certainly not stopping you from doing this. Too often I have to say, the uninformed do use the CAA as a reason for not doing something, often they are very wrong.

    FB
    As a mere "uninformed" I´m thankful that you took the time to reply. ;-)
    However what you haven´t managed to do is answer my question.
    Which was to say that the people - ahem - "restoring" (I´ll spell it out - building new) these aircraft aren´t doing any of the things you describe.
    They´re building new but just not admitting it as they have an ID to hide behind. And everyone knows it.
    Not saying there´s anything wrong with that BTW, but as i said, why not just pick a no longer extant ID and build that?
    Have YOU used the "Will it be at Legends" joke yet today?

  26. #56
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    I'm not sure this will answer the question, but if you have an ID, you can repair the aircraft, even if you don't start with much. If you state that the aircraft is new, then you need manufacturing approvals, which is a whole,different ball game. Semantics, I know.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I'm not sure this will answer the question, but if you have an ID, you can repair the aircraft, even if you don't start with much. If you state that the aircraft is new, then you need manufacturing approvals, which is a whole,different ball game. Semantics, I know.
    That´s just it isn´t it - semantics! :-)
    Oh well, good luck to anyone with the where with all to be able to do it.
    Have YOU used the "Will it be at Legends" joke yet today?

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I'm not sure this will answer the question, but if you have an ID, you can repair the aircraft, even if you don't start with much. If you state that the aircraft is new, then you need manufacturing approvals, which is a whole,different ball game. Semantics, I know.
    It's semantics with significant impacts in practice.

    Note that The Vintage Aviator Ltd is a certified Aircraft Manufacturer.
    http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/about-us
    Certification

    NZCAA part 148 (manufacturing)
    The Vintage Aviator Ltd is approved to manufacture aircraft components under the following ratings:
    M1 - manufacture aircraft
    M2 - manufacture aircraft components
    M3 - manufacture parts or appliances
    APPROVED MAGNETIC PARTICLE INSPECTION
    APPROVED DYE PENETRANT INSPECTION
    APPROVED EDDY CURRENT INSPECTION

  29. #59
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    [QUOTE=Mark12;2379564]It doesn't seem that long ago that 30 minutes in 'IDN, hands on and aeros, was a £20 contribution toward the fuel. That is £230 in today's money.

    Mark

    When I flew in the Chino Planes of fame P51 it was $650 for 20min's I was lucky enough to get 1hour 10min for my $650!!

  30. #60
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    Time for a gratuitous photo of some two-seat Spitfires, one with a Graceful modification and the other a hunchback !
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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