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Thread: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    they are selling it to China and India those countries are as much westernized as Turkey. the issue is more can Turkey afford it? as rest of turkey programmes are extremely slow to implement.

    Funding is no issue. The Gulf States (especially Qatar and Saudi Arabia) have been funding Turkey's R&D projects.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraxxus View Post
    Funny "rumor", considering first and only two "evidences" Russians have revealed turned out to be humiliatingly fake... Trying to pass satellite images of Pesmergah trucks in Iraq as ISIS trucks in Syria, and Koc holding operated refinary as AKP/state owned refinary where deliveries were made??? Actually it was quite a disappointment for many here -myself included- as Erdogan himself said he would resign if anyone can show any evidence... Recent "rumor" is just funny. as in utterly stupid-funny..
    I don't think that that's the kind of evidence which is for anyone to see.. Until then it stays just a rumor.. But maybe, from your perspective, you have a better explanation for the sudden twist in relations towards Russia.. let us hear it..

  3. #63
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    UPDATE:

    President Erdogan of Turkey will be making an official State Visit to Russia on 9 and 10 March 2017 to conclude talks and sign agreement for S-400 deal.

    Russian Politics & Diplomacy February 24, 15:05 UTC+3
    http://tass.com/politics/932633

    MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. The date for visit of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Moscow is agreed - March 9-10, press secretary of the Russian president told TASS.

    "Yes, the visit’s date is agreed," he said in response to a request to comment on information from Turkey’s NTV, claiming Erdogan is to visit Moscow on March 9-10.
    "I confirm it," Dmitry Peskov said.

    The Turkish television channel said about a planned bilateral meeting of presidents, and a meeting of the High-Level Russian-Turkish Cooperation Council. The parties to the negotiations plan to discuss a wide range of issues, including supplies of Russian S-400 missile systems to Turkey. The television channel, however, has not named source of the information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    But maybe, from your perspective, you have a better explanation for the sudden twist in relations towards Russia.. let us hear it..
    The "sudden twist" in relations was the disagreement over Syria, culminating in the unfortunate Su-24 incident, and that disagreement has become less pronounced over time. Both parties should be commended for continuing a process of dialogue, working through their disagreements and emerging with a working relationship.
    Last edited by Rii; 24th February 2017 at 14:11.

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    The Turkey-Russia rapprochement and subsequent Strategic Partnership is President Erdogan's sweet revenge from the West for the 15 July coup attempt to overthrow him - he believes the coup was orchestrated by NATO's clandestine groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    The Turkey-Russia rapprochement and subsequent Strategic Partnership is President Erdogan's sweet revenge from the West for the 15 July coup attempt to overthrow him - he believes the coup was orchestrated by NATO's clandestine groups.
    But even if true, such coup attempt wouldn't be executed without a reason.. What could it be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    The Turkey-Russia rapprochement and subsequent Strategic Partnership is President Erdogan's sweet revenge from the West for the 15 July coup attempt to overthrow him - he believes the coup was orchestrated by NATO's clandestine groups.
    Any sources to support the claim that he believes the coup was arranged by "NATO's clandestine groups"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Any sources to support the claim that he believes the coup was arranged by "NATO's clandestine groups"?
    He made statements to this effect on the 2nd day of the coup attempt whilst visiting the Police Special Forces HQ that was bombed by the coup plotters with F-16's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    But even if true, such coup attempt wouldn't be executed without a reason.. What could it be?

    Turkey would not allow the creation of an independent Kurdistan in Syria. This had widespread implications for US interests in the region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    you have a better explanation for the sudden twist in relations towards Russia.. let us hear it..
    Mutual benefits. Neither Russia nor Turkey can achieve what they want in Syria without compomise. Same could be said for US-Turkey relationship as well.

    And US and NATO in general doesn't even try to find a common ground with Turkey. US and NATO -from Turkish perspective- openly betrayes Turkey in favour of one single pro-Kurd armed group, it opens up an opportunities for Russia-Turkish relations, and mutual benefits goes well beyond Syria...

    If it all works well, Russia gets a powerful ally who controls the Russian transition to mediterranean and NATO transition to black sea, and can provide a quick ticket to whole middleeast if WW3 erupts someday.. Such alliance also rips NATO of some hundreds of combat aircraft, more than ten thousand armored vehicles, reducing the NATO's conventional threat to Russia significantly.

    Turkey may -on paper- appear to get a less powerful (than NATO) ally, but even the most recent history (read: last 3-4 years) shows Russia is an ally that is actually honorable and dependable... Russia won't just stop selling tank engines or machine guns or helicopter transmission parts (like Austria, US and Italy does right now), because of some internal affairs of Turkey that is no one's business. (Whereas Russia didn't stop shipping BTR and Mi-17 spare parts despite political tension in Syria until Turkey actually shot down a Russian plane. Russia still proceeds with all levels of military cooperation despite being on politically opposite sides in Syria). Russia won't hide behind some excuses like NATO if an ally is in dire need of assistance (as proven by Russia's hard efforts to keep Assad in power)... If such alliance could be forged, I don't think Russia would betray Turkey in totally irrelevant political matters like Aegean islands, Cyprus, Armenian Genocide among others like great majority of NATO countries do...

    If all these good relations break up at a certain point, Russia will still make some good money. If my memory serves me right, even China will get 6 S-400 systems, Turkey hopes to get 12, twice the number.. ~6 billion $ is a good money for Russia, funding the procurement of some 40+ PAK-FAs by itself... Also, its not like S-400 will automatically get useless the second NATO get its hands upon.. all the details regarding S-300 was known to NATO, just like all the details of F-15 was exactly known to Soviets in 1980s... Espionage works even better today, same surely holds true for S-400 and F-22; there is probably nothing west doesn't already know about S-400's specifications. Also, Russia will be knowing the exact capabilities of Turkish ADGM network, and the fact S-400 will not be fully integrated to NATO systems still weakens the NATO in a way... Turkey, in return, will still get an ADGM system it can't produce by its own and doesn't given by anyone else... That is quite beneficial for both sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Turkey would not allow the creation of an independent Kurdistan in Syria. This had widespread implications for US interests in the region.
    Turkey in the end has no saying in what another nation wishes to do with its self determination. There is a Kurdish nation and if the right time to create an independent Kurdistan is now, Turkey can not do anything about it.

    Especially if it serves US interests (as funnily enough Turkey has done for a very long time) .. then it will simply be done eventually.. US foreign policy is not always successful, but it is a train .. and a trainwreck at times...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    Turkey in the end has no saying in what another nation wishes to do with its self determination. There is a Kurdish nation and if the right time to create an independent Kurdistan is now, Turkey can not do anything about it.

    Especially if it serves US interests (as funnily enough Turkey has done for a very long time) .. then it will simply be done eventually.. US foreign policy is not always successful, but it is a train .. and a trainwreck at times...
    Yes, well US would have to make something out of their Syria Policy. Cause up till now that train has derailed, time to get things moving again with Trump would you not say.

    Its no secret that Putin hate NATO, Russia official view is that they will not do any co-op with NATO, but they will seek mutual co-op with NATO countries induvidualy.
    And behold that is what Russia is doing with Turkey. If it would upset the NATO/US balance, then one more straw in Putins hat.
    Last edited by haavarla; 24th February 2017 at 16:23.
    Thanks

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Funding is no issue. The Gulf States (especially Qatar and Saudi Arabia) have been funding Turkey's R&D projects.
    those large scales fundings without dividend return are thing of the past these Gulf states are not as rich as they used to be at higher energy prices plus they are disappointed in Turkish performance in Syria and Irak. Turkey is unable to dislodge Syrian government. Turkey unable to prevent Irak from increasing its oil production that is hitting there pocket books. Now Russia directly deals with those Gulf states to squeeze money out of them. I have read in reputable twitter account that Russia has told them that there is arms embargo for 5 years on Iran so they better get in line to compensate Russian arms industry. ultimately Russia procurement is going at such speed that it will completely block air and sea links of Middleast and EU unless those gulf states fully fund Russian investment funds and with highly efficient procurement and R&D Russia will be the only hegemon left in EU and Middleast. every on else will be weak and dependent.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraxxus View Post
    ...Russia is an ally that is actually honorable and dependable...
    Really? Remember when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons? Russia promised to guarantee Ukraine's borders. Where was Russia's honour & dependability when it annexed Crimea, sent weapons & soldiers into eastern Ukraine, & shelled Ukraine from across the border? The promise had been made with no caveats about Ukraine's internal governance, but it was thrown away the moment that it suited Putin to do so.

    Russia under its current rulers is 'honourable & dependable' only as long as that serves what Putin wants.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    He made statements to this effect on the 2nd day of the coup attempt whilst visiting the Police Special Forces HQ that was bombed by the coup plotters with F-16's.
    Did he repeat those statements? Any links?

    Erdogan makes all kinds of outlandish statements when he is out of balance...

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraxxus View Post
    Mutual benefits. Neither Russia nor Turkey can achieve what they want in Syria without compomise. Same could be said for US-Turkey relationship as well.

    And US and NATO in general doesn't even try to find a common ground with Turkey. US and NATO -from Turkish perspective- openly betrayes Turkey in favour of one single pro-Kurd armed group, it opens up an opportunities for Russia-Turkish relations, and mutual benefits goes well beyond Syria...

    If it all works well, Russia gets a powerful ally who controls the Russian transition to mediterranean and NATO transition to black sea, and can provide a quick ticket to whole middleeast if WW3 erupts someday.. Such alliance also rips NATO of some hundreds of combat aircraft, more than ten thousand armored vehicles, reducing the NATO's conventional threat to Russia significantly.

    Turkey may -on paper- appear to get a less powerful (than NATO) ally, but even the most recent history (read: last 3-4 years) shows Russia is an ally that is actually honorable and dependable... Russia won't just stop selling tank engines or machine guns or helicopter transmission parts (like Austria, US and Italy does right now), because of some internal affairs of Turkey that is no one's business. (Whereas Russia didn't stop shipping BTR and Mi-17 spare parts despite political tension in Syria until Turkey actually shot down a Russian plane. Russia still proceeds with all levels of military cooperation despite being on politically opposite sides in Syria). Russia won't hide behind some excuses like NATO if an ally is in dire need of assistance (as proven by Russia's hard efforts to keep Assad in power)... If such alliance could be forged, I don't think Russia would betray Turkey in totally irrelevant political matters like Aegean islands, Cyprus, Armenian Genocide among others like great majority of NATO countries do...

    If all these good relations break up at a certain point, Russia will still make some good money. If my memory serves me right, even China will get 6 S-400 systems, Turkey hopes to get 12, twice the number.. ~6 billion $ is a good money for Russia, funding the procurement of some 40+ PAK-FAs by itself... Also, its not like S-400 will automatically get useless the second NATO get its hands upon.. all the details regarding S-300 was known to NATO, just like all the details of F-15 was exactly known to Soviets in 1980s... Espionage works even better today, same surely holds true for S-400 and F-22; there is probably nothing west doesn't already know about S-400's specifications. Also, Russia will be knowing the exact capabilities of Turkish ADGM network, and the fact S-400 will not be fully integrated to NATO systems still weakens the NATO in a way... Turkey, in return, will still get an ADGM system it can't produce by its own and doesn't given by anyone else... That is quite beneficial for both sides.
    Wrong -- you equate Erdogan and his cronies with Turkey. Many Turkish will disagree with this.

    Wrong -- US and NATO do try to find commond ground with Erdogan -- actually one could make the opposite statement, that Erdogan does not try to find common ground with the US and NATO... flirting with both China and Russia, and refuse to accept the viewpoints of US and Western NATO countries.

    Anyhow, unless Erdogan changes his tune I predict there will be a "proper" coup in Turkey soon -- and not driven by the hapless Gulen movement but rather another and much stronger and better organized force within the Turkish society. I also predict that the US and other NATO countries will stay well out of the mess (just in case) but that they will quickly work to "normalize" the relationship with the new rulers in Turkey.

    Unless of course Erdogan changes his tune. I think they will give him one last chance to improve himself and get back on track...

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Really? Remember when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons? Russia promised to guarantee Ukraine's borders. Where was Russia's honour & dependability when it annexed Crimea, sent weapons & soldiers into eastern Ukraine, & shelled Ukraine from across the border? The promise had been made with no caveats about Ukraine's internal governance, but it was thrown away the moment that it suited Putin to do so.

    Russia under its current rulers is 'honourable & dependable' only as long as that serves what Putin wants.
    It is not about Ukraine but EU considering EU countries role in Russia friendly countries like Syria and Libya. Russia already did Germany favour by that peaceful reunification and Germany violating so many agreements at other places.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    those large scales fundings without dividend return are thing of the past these Gulf states are not as rich as they used to be at higher energy prices plus they are disappointed in Turkish performance in Syria and Irak. Turkey is unable to dislodge Syrian government. Turkey unable to prevent Irak from increasing its oil production that is hitting there pocket books. Now Russia directly deals with those Gulf states to squeeze money out of them. I have read in reputable twitter account that Russia has told them that there is arms embargo for 5 years on Iran so they better get in line to compensate Russian arms industry. ultimately Russia procurement is going at such speed that it will completely block air and sea links of Middleast and EU unless those gulf states fully fund Russian investment funds and with highly efficient procurement and R&D Russia will be the only hegemon left in EU and Middleast. every on else will be weak and dependent.
    Turkey's aim in Syria was never to oust Assad. It knew very well this could not be achieved. Assad was a pretext for Turkey to launch Operation Euphrates Shield under the cover of a UN Security Council Resolution and prevent the Kurdish Cantons from joining to form a "Kurdish Corridor" on Turkey's border.

    As for Iraq increasing oil production- this oil transits Turkish territory and Turkey gets transit fees.

  19. #79
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    only 5% of oil is exported through turkey and even that is moving to alternate routes.

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N1G532F

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Wrong -- you equate Erdogan and his cronies with Turkey. Many Turkish will disagree with this.

    Wrong -- US and NATO do try to find commond ground with Erdogan -- actually one could make the opposite statement, that Erdogan does not try to find common ground with the US and NATO... flirting with both China and Russia, and refuse to accept the viewpoints of US and Western NATO countries.

    Anyhow, unless Erdogan changes his tune I predict there will be a "proper" coup in Turkey soon -- and not driven by the hapless Gulen movement but rather another and much stronger and better organized force within the Turkish society. I also predict that the US and other NATO countries will stay well out of the mess (just in case) but that they will quickly work to "normalize" the relationship with the new rulers in Turkey.

    Unless of course Erdogan changes his tune. I think they will give him one last chance to improve himself and get back on track...
    Turkey is sovereign it can flirt with anyone it wants. Turkey has its own interests to protect just like the US. If the US does not pay heed to Turkish concerns and aids and abets an organisation which Turkey prescribes as a Terrorist group then Turkey is obliged to look at ways of countering this. Russia was happy to abandon the Kurdish cause in Syria in exchange for bringing Turkey into its own orbit. And this is what happened. Erdogan flew to St Petersburg and signed a Strategic Agreement with Russia.

    As for there being a proper coup in Turkey- this today is impossible. Erdogan has purged every single General and Intelligence officer that has the slightest connection to NATO or opposition forces. His men are now appointed to all key positions in the Turkish intelligence and military apparatus. He also has a direct line to the Kremlin. The last move that will guarantee and protect Erdogan is the switch from a Parliamentary regime to a Presidential system like France and the US- he will be Commander-in-Chief and have direct say in everything.

    Above-all, Erdogan enjoys majority support in Turkey from the people. This makes it much harder for those plotting against him.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    only 5% of oil is exported through turkey and even that is moving to alternate routes.

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N1G532F

    Oh I didn't realise you were referring to the planned Kirkuk Oil pipeline to Iran. This won't go ahead and nothing will come of it. Israel-Turkey-Russia are working to prevent this. Yes Russia too because it compromises its Turkish Stream pipeline.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Really? Remember when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons? Russia promised to guarantee Ukraine's borders. Where was Russia's honour & dependability when it annexed Crimea, sent weapons & soldiers into eastern Ukraine, & shelled Ukraine from across the border?
    On all those events, everyone had their cards out in the open. You are mixing up being "honorable" with changing politics... Russia and Turkey could have gone to war over Su-24 shoot down and that still would be honorable. When asked to stop violations Putin himself said "then you will have to accept our aircraft as guests". In a way, they said they won't stop (or care about) those violations and did exactly that... Turkey said they will shoot down anything crossed their borders, and did exactly that... In a way, everyone did exactly as they have told to other party... There is no trickery in that.

    This contrasts the deceptive attitude of US calling Turkey an ally, but refusing to sell 7,62mm machine guns Turkey requested, on the excuse because they are being used againist Kurds, yet sending the exact same weapons to the enemy of Turkey for free... From where I stand, if a country supports my enemy and not me, then its not an ally at all... US is not an ally of Turkey, period.

    Turkey had to work with Agusta because of NATO ties, and now the Italian supplier doesn't provide transmissions for several months, to a point Turkey had to start domestic production of it... I can name similar issues everywhere.. Every actor in NATO that pretends to be an ally and a supplier just want to put a leash on Turkish industry and make some money in the process... Had Turkey just have given up on NATO and A-129, and preferred Ka-52 instead, I am sure Russia wouldn't have stopped shipping some critical components because the helicopters would be used againist PKK or PYD. Hence my definition of "dependable". Simply put, Italy is proven to be NOT dependable. As far as other Turkish military contracts concerned, same goes for US, Germany, Austria or China... Again, Russia still supplies spare parts for Turkish Mi-17s today, even though Turkish and Russians are standing at the opposite sides of the fronts in Syria, Russians are honoring their agreement. That also speaks dependability to me..

    And all that de-facto arms embargo is connected to Turkish a military campaign againist an internationally recognized terrorist group PKK; by any definition is an internal matter of Turkey. Now imagine the stance of the same Italy or Austria in question, if Turkey was fighting a full scale war with Greece... Turkey has quite many reasons to distrust NATO as a whole and US and EU countries individually. You just can't say that is just unfounded, or you can't blame it all on *******ed-up, overly religious administation Turkey currently has...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Wrong -- you equate Erdogan and his cronies with Turkey. Many Turkish will disagree with this.
    Well, I am Turkish I am anti-AKP to the core, so does my social environment obviously.. I've yet to find one single person that doesn't feel betrayed by US or NATO regarding events I've brought up... I don't know how you could generalize how many would disagree or agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Anyhow, unless Erdogan changes his tune I predict there will be a "proper" coup in Turkey soon -- and not driven by the hapless Gulen movement but rather another and much stronger and better organized force within the Turkish society.
    No... Anyone with brains, education and a shaken nationalism due to NOT feeling a part of this nation anymore will simply move to another country.. Me myself looking forward to move to US for example, but that won't change my objective assesment that US has no problems to set a chain of events that truthfully risk integrity of Turkey, and because of that, I don't consider US as an ally of Turkey to any degree.

    As for the coup, anyone who is civilized and aware enough to see the dangers of AKP regime is also civilized and aware enough to see the dangers of a military coup. There hasn't been a coup in Turkey since 1980 for a reason. And no, some hundreds of brain-washed morons marching into streets of a capital with 5,3 million population with just 4 tanks and ~10 APCs are not making a coup.. They are better defined as a terrorist act, made by using the equipment of the military.

  23. #83
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    Crippling your supply chains to the benefit of the US is the entire point of NATO. Americans are merely incompetent statesmen and let a minor periphery conflict like Syria "open the eyes" of its client states to just how screwed they really were because of said reliances. I am no JSR fan but he is right when he says Russia will make piles off money off its Syria intervention not because it showed it would back Assad "no matter what" but because the US refused to back Turkey "no matter what" and played similar dirty games with Iraq and the Gulf states to the point where everyone involved has a bad taste in their mouth from dealing with the US. So after Syria there isnt a country in the region not looking to diversify away from American suppliers.

    I would also add that the US never ratified the Budapest Memorandum so it is not in fact international law. Ukraine gave up its nukes for subsidized natural gas without which it would have starved to death in the 90s -- and its gas is still subsidized to this very day. Ukraine still does not buy gas from Russia at EU prices when it actually buys gas from Russia.
    Last edited by soyuz1917; 25th February 2017 at 05:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Oh I didn't realise you were referring to the planned Kirkuk Oil pipeline to Iran. This won't go ahead and nothing will come of it. Israel-Turkey-Russia are working to prevent this. Yes Russia too because it compromises its Turkish Stream pipeline.
    pipeline to southern eu is not that important compared to drilling resources in Irak-Iran. those countries are more oriented towards selling to Asia where population has much higher growth. just Bangladesh/Vietnam and Indonesia adds up to 500 million people.


    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...serve-in-iraq/
    Russian company discovers huge oil reserve in Iraq


    https://sputniknews.com/military/201...ms-deliveries/

    Moscow is addressing the issue of new military equipment deliveries to Iraq's armed forces.
    He noted that Russian-Iraqi military technical cooperation "is developing quite effectively."

    "Russia provides considerable support and assistance to Iraq in the fight against the Daesh terrorist organization banned in Russia," Frolkin said.

    Turkey and Israel cant exist without Gulf money. Turkey and Israel make a lot of noise in the news but practical worth is zero as far as Russia is concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Turkey would not allow the creation of an independent Kurdistan in Syria. This had widespread implications for US interests in the region.
    You're forgetting one thing.. Russia, too, has interest in independent Kurdistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Wrong -- US and NATO do try to find commond ground with Erdogan -- actually one could make the opposite statement, that Erdogan does not try to find common ground with the US and NATO... flirting with both China and Russia, and refuse to accept the viewpoints of US and Western NATO countries.
    Is Turkey somehow obliged to accept the viewpoints of US and Western NATO countries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Anyhow, unless Erdogan changes his tune I predict there will be a "proper" coup in Turkey soon -- and not driven by the hapless Gulen movement but rather another and much stronger and better organized force within the Turkish society. I also predict that the US and other NATO countries will stay well out of the mess (just in case) but that they will quickly work to "normalize" the relationship with the new rulers in Turkey.
    A much stronger and better organized force within the Turkish society? And what exactly is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Unless of course Erdogan changes his tune. I think they will give him one last chance to improve himself and get back on track...
    You guys are hilarious.. whenever Turkey starts to flirt with Russia, you find it justified to remove the ruler by force.. But if Ukraine starts to flirt with NATO and Russia does the same, then you are outraged.. Double standards much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    pipeline to southern eu is not that important compared to drilling resources in Irak-Iran. those countries are more oriented towards selling to Asia where population has much higher growth. just Bangladesh/Vietnam and Indonesia adds up to 500 million people.


    Turkey and Israel cant exist without Gulf money. Turkey and Israel make a lot of noise in the news but practical worth is zero as far as Russia is concerned.
    Turkey has a lot of influence in Iran due to the large portion of Azeri's there. Israel and Turkey's role in the region can never be underestimated. Today you have a pro-Iranian Government in Iraq but can you guarantee tomorrow?

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    Israel and Turkey has as much role as long as Gulf countries have extra funds for them. Turkey and Israel are incompetent fools as long economics, science and military are concerned. They always need external help from skill labor, spare parts to tourism to foreign fund flow. both has leaders that are embarrassment due to there loud mouth.

    http://abc.az/eng/news_22_02_2017_102189.html
    Russia and Iran involve Azerbaijan and Armenia into competition for transit of Russian and Iranian electricity
    http://in.reuters.com/article/azerba...-idINL8N1G52PG
    Azerbaijan, future gas supplier to Europe, faces shortfall at home


    Azerbaijan began importing from Iran last year

    * Gas prices have doubled for many Azeris

    * Industry sources report supply hitches

    * Country not seen renegotiating export deals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    From "'Anyone threatening our air forces will be DESTROYED" (Putin) and "Turkey demonstrates it's solidarity with the terrorists." (Lavrov) to "Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale" in one year and two months!

    AH, geopolitics, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"...

    And... Why do Turkey needs S400´s?! To fight whom?
    They need them to fight the Russians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    ...
    You guys are hilarious.. whenever Turkey starts to flirt with Russia, you find it justified to remove the ruler by force.. But if Ukraine starts to flirt with NATO and Russia does the same, then you are outraged.. Double standards much?
    So you are saying Ukraine is just another part of the Russian federation? not a different country? :S

    BTW I don't understand why the Ukraine government would think that the Russian federation would do nothing while they were flirting with NATO.
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