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Thread: Best 4.5 gen fighter

  1. #31
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    at the modest ranges that is A2A, triangulation is done accurately
    the missile will require about five times the G capability of the target to complete a successful intercept.
    -Robert L Shaw

  2. #32
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    best air superiority: want to say Typhoon but probably F-15
    best a2g: F-15
    best multirole: F-15
    best for peacetime: Gripen
    best value for money: Su-35
    best for most air forces: Gripen
    best naval: Rafale
    best looking: Rafale, su-35 tie

  3. #33
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    Best A-A: definitely something that employs the METEOR.
    F-15? No chance..

  4. #34
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    F-15? No chance..
    Why not? It has an AESA radar (unlike EF-2000) with a very advanced sensor suit. Great payload/range and a wide range of weapons.
    History and Military Technology blog

    alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Best A-A: definitely something that employs the METEOR.
    F-15? No chance..
    That would be MIG31 and Su-35 they provide the highest top speed and altitude for missile launches. MIG35 is close second to them.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozair View Post

    I'd like to explore this concept of silver cars not requiring as many washes...
    Personal experience, dear chap, having owned a red Renault, a blue Nissan, a grey Skoda and now a silver Fiat i´ve discovered the joy´s of the silver colour in cars. Been doing photo treks in some fairly decent sized mountains for two and a half decades and silver has some magical properties over capot mud, it stealthifies it (the mud)... more or less...

    Cheers

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by obligatory View Post
    at the modest ranges that is A2A, triangulation is done accurately
    A group of Gripen with directional datalink+ triangulation can geolocate the F-22 with its radar on
    A group of F-22 with directional datalink + radar can geolocate all Gripen
    Big different there

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    Personal experience, dear chap, having owned a red Renault, a blue Nissan, a grey Skoda and now a silver Fiat i´ve discovered the joy´s of the silver colour in cars. Been doing photo treks in some fairly decent sized mountains for two and a half decades and silver has some magical properties over capot mud, it stealthifies it (the mud)... more or less...

    Cheers
    It's called aging and generally comes with an inherent eyesight loss my friend.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    best air superiority: want to say Typhoon but probably F-15
    best a2g: F-15
    best multirole: F-15
    best for peacetime: Gripen
    best value for money: Su-35
    best for most air forces: Gripen
    best naval: Rafale
    best looking: Rafale, su-35 tie
    "General, we are going to war !"
    The General : "thanks god, we have the best fighter for peacetime !"

    Wait, what ? Name:  31.gif
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    The Rafale international forum :
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by a89 View Post
    Why not? It has an AESA radar (unlike EF-2000) with a very advanced sensor suit. Great payload/range and a wide range of weapons.
    F-15s will not field Meteors, AFAIK.. In that regard they will always stay behind..
    BTW, Typhoons, too, start to employ AESA radars. Rafales already have them..

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    F-35 and F-22 are 5. gen and thus not part of this discussion (see first post that specified 4.5 gen... )
    Perhaps you should tell that to OB.. the guy who actually brought them into the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by obligatory View Post
    gripen E ...its directional data link means a stealth fighter is forced to use radar, at which point its no longer stealth and can be detected at greater ranges.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    Personal experience, dear chap, having owned a red Renault, a blue Nissan, a grey Skoda and now a silver Fiat i´ve discovered the joy´s of the silver colour in cars. Been doing photo treks in some fairly decent sized mountains for two and a half decades and silver has some magical properties over capot mud, it stealthifies it (the mud)... more or less...

    Cheers
    Life lesson learnt...

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    best air superiority: want to say Typhoon but probably F-15
    best a2g: F-15
    best multirole: F-15
    best for peacetime: Gripen
    best value for money: Su-35
    best for most air forces: Gripen
    best naval: Rafale
    best looking: Rafale, su-35 tie
    best air superiority: want to say Typhoon but probably F-15
    No TVC
    Lesser turning radius
    Cant cobra

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    F-35 and F-22 are 5. gen and thus not part of this discussion (see first post that specified 4.5 gen... )
    While we are on that subject, when India was flying their various 4th and 4.5 gen fighters with the Raptor, the USAF said that the only thing that could play with the Raptor in dogfighting was the su 30's.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Arguing about who is the tallest midget.
    A priest from the religion of stealth chimes in..

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovy View Post
    "General, we are going to war !"
    The General : "thanks god, we have the best fighter for peacetime !"

    Wait, what ? Name:  31.gif
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    hello studly.
    this might surprise you, but most air forces in the world don't engage in combat and just need an air policer.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    While we are on that subject, when India was flying their various 4th and 4.5 gen fighters with the Raptor, the USAF said that the only thing that could play with the Raptor in dogfighting was the su 30's.
    Nah..... they didn't

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    While we are on that subject, when India was flying their various 4th and 4.5 gen fighters with the Raptor, the USAF said that the only thing that could play with the Raptor in dogfighting was the su 30's.
    Rafale was more than able to play the dogfighting with Raptors.

  19. #49
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    Black

    I've aways wanted a black car but buying second hand has always meant that colour is the lowest on my list of criteria

    I've got a black car now and it deals with potholes and speed bumps better than any of my previous ones. And it's easy to get in and out of, has plenty of headroom and carries me, wife, three boys and approximately a ton of youth football kit easily

    Black cars are best
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBW View Post
    What is the best color?
    Red
    Green
    Blue
    Purple
    Orange

    I pick Green because there are so many shades, and lime colored cars can be bought at the lowest price.......... But Red is obviously been upgraded recently with the addition of such shades as "lust" "oxblood".

    -Sarcasm off-
    Rofl
    Latencia Profecionalis

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    hello studly.
    this might surprise you, but most air forces in the world don't engage in combat and just need an air policer.
    I know, I just though it was funny to have "best fighter" and "peacetime" in the same sentence

    BTW, the Gripen C was described as unsatifactory for Air policing due to weak aircraft endurance and performances by the Swiss eval...
    The Rafale international forum :
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    Rafale news blog :
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Black

    I've aways wanted a black car but buying second hand has always meant that colour is the lowest on my list of criteria

    I've got a black car now and it deals with potholes and speed bumps better than any of my previous ones. And it's easy to get in and out of, has plenty of headroom and carries me, wife, three boys and approximately a ton of youth football kit easily

    Black cars are best
    But no claim about washing less?

    Now just need everyone to acknowledge that my red car goes faster...

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozair View Post
    But no claim about washing less?

    Now just need everyone to acknowledge that my red car goes faster...
    Doesn't matter.
    Nothing beats my imaginary Yellow Porche standing in my driveway.

    Take that all you window lickers!
    Thanks

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by garryA View Post
    Nah..... they didn't

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I really don't see how that video supports your point. At around 6:20 he literally said their F-15 unit dominate Su-30 in close combat. Language barriers?. Moreover, India doesn't have Typhoon, Gripen, F-15, F-16 or F-18 either, probably didn't even have rafale at that time

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    if i recall correctly, that video, combined with the reports mostly said.. Mig-21 bison was deadly

  27. #57
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    the video didnt support KGB, on contrary he said that while the teen fighters had a small window of opportunity
    to nail an F-22, if the F-22 pilot was rookie, but the same pilots had an easy time doing an Su-30 in.

    a few interesting quotes from that officer: F-22 can maintain 28 degree at 20k ft,
    while F-15 can maintain 15 degree. the jammer coupled with mig-21 inherent low RCS made amraam useless
    and the teens had to resort to guns, but su-30 was so large RCS so jamming couldnt mask it.

    in previous exercises the indians had sent their best pilots and did very well against US fighters,
    but when they sent their average pilots they didnt stand a chance.

    the russian engines required so much maintenance so the indians didnt actually qualify to participate in red flag,
    but it was overcome by sending up su-30 first so they wouldnt keep the runway busy for others,
    which was fine since su-30 has such a large tank so it works out
    the missile will require about five times the G capability of the target to complete a successful intercept.
    -Robert L Shaw

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralay View Post
    No Information F-16E and F-10B
    Line 209 - compared to the Su-27 in "dogfight"
    Line 221 - compared to the Su-27 in the "long range fight"

    Example: MiG-35 in close combat in 1.64 times better than Su-27

    Attachment 251337
    It's fantastic to see how the Russians underestimate the Gripen. Would come as a nasty surprise if, God forbid, a conflict were to break out.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralay View Post
    196 wing angle
    197 wing extension
    198 wing loading
    199 fuselage extension
    200 Power steering engine / aircraft weight
    201 deviation of the thrust vector
    202 followed by a radar target
    203 targets simultaneously being attacked
    204 points of suspension
    205 RCS
    206 maximum overload
    207 acceleration
    208 flight distance

    212 top speed
    213 cruising speed
    214 flight distance
    215 Range Radar
    216 followed by a radar target
    217 targets simultaneously being attacked
    219 RCS
    220 range missiles "air - air"

    223 efficiency / cost
    225 generation
    Even more funny, how the Russians claim the MiG-35 has a lower RCS than the Gripen. I mean, sure, propaganda and sale pitches. But come on, really? Is it using "plasma stealth"?

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    F/A-18E/F, of course. The most mass produced, combat proven and equipped with AESA radar and whole bunch of the latest weapons and targeting/recce systems.
    "I'd rather go to war in a Typhoon than in a F-18 (Super) Hornet”
    https://theaviationist.com/2011/12/05/typhoon-malaysia/


    (the Danes seemed to disagree, they scored the Typhoon and the SH roughly the same in survivability and the SH somewhat higher than the Typhoon in mission effectiveness -- India ranked Typhoon above the SH since the SH was not shortlisted in the MMRCA whereas the Typhoon was -- in other words it really depends on the requirements )
    Last edited by Loke; 16th February 2017 at 10:58.

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