There exist no evidence what so ever that the MKI had any problem service wise at Red Flag.
He talked about the Indians not want to risk nick their Hi/low Comp fans at take-off. They was a long way from home base. Didn't have any spare engines with them.
They had to get most value out of each fighter, pilots and ground crew at Nellis. They can't do that if one of the engines get FOD damage and jet get parked during the whole exercies.
Its quite expensive as well going to red Flag. IAF paid over $80mill for the whole Red Flag deployment.
In short, IAF wanted most bang for their bucks. Hense they took some percations on the take-off's.
Last edited by haavarla; 16th February 2017 at 12:12.
To underestimate the Gripen is something of a general notion going around.
Switzerland: Deemed that Gripen upgrades were unsatisfactory in terms of reliability [all of which have been realized as of today in the Swedish 39E package] and had its performance downsized by a factor of 1.3.
Yet, despite having the score downgraded, managed to not only meet the satisfactory levels of performance but still come out as a good choice.
India: Didn't manage to meet the demands of the MMRCA [at the time], but is today the strongest alternative in the competition to complement the Tejas and the MMRCA [Rafale].
Brazil: FAB favored the Gripen over both the Rafale and the Super Bug [in terms of cost/efficiency/capabilities/needs of the FAB] whilst Lula opted for the Rafale in terms of political ties with France [i.e. Bribes]. It wasn't until Dilma went into office that the FAB had their say in the decision and resulted in the choice of the Gripen.
Ofcourse the Gripen has its drawbacks, it's not the perfect fighter for every country nor is it the perfect fighter for all situations. It lacks two engines, heavy ordenence, international fame, range with a large strike payload, it lacks political back-up from Sweden and it is relying on permission from the US to sell it. It is however THE leading fighter in areas of cost/performance, No TVC manueverability, aerodynamic low-drag design and low signature [RCS/IR] for 4.5gen fighters (Gripen A had an RCS of 0,1m2 in official verified documents released by FMV, and each evolution A -> C -> E has only recieved more signature reducing measures of which Gripen E will recieve the biggest leap yet. The MiG-35 doesn't even come close no matter how far Russian propaganda wants to spin the MiG-35.
In Switzerland, it was dead last any way you look at it. The only thing where it was better was price. It was selected by politicians who, basically said: "for what we need, that sum will be enough".. but, basically, they conducted a competition where they wanted to replace a Porsche 911 by something better. They got propositions from two supercars and a WV bug... politicians chose the bug (barely caricatural here, I admit )
In Brasil, once more, it is its price that got it chosen, nothing else
Thread title says fighter. If you're talking purely air-air, Typhoon. /thread.
If you mean multirole, either Rafale or SU30 at the moment, though Typhoon will be on par with both in the not too distant future. (with each obviously having their respective strengths) If you mean interceptor, then again, Typhoon.
Last edited by paralay; 16th February 2017 at 16:55.
No surprise it was not shortlisted.
It is not replacing Tejas, it is complementing it (if selected).
Now it is replacing Rafale to get the numbers up,
Switzerland compared Gripen C vs competition. They selected Gripen E.
In Brazil, the Rafale did not provide enough bang for the buck, and the US screwed up by spying.
They compared the versions tested and in round 2 they compared proposed evolutions, including what would turn out to be the Gripen E.Switzerland compared Gripen C vs competition. They selected Gripen E.
In Brazil they didn't have enough buck to get the bang.In Brazil, the Rafale did not provide enough bang for the buck, and the US screwed up by spying.
In Brazil they didn't have enough buck to get the bang.
apparently the former president assessed brazils economy as sufficient to buy rafale,
he even went as far as proclaiming rafale had won and would be bought.
for some reason, probably a lingering bribe investigation, he decided to back off and defer the decision to next government, whom decided to hand over the decision to the industry, whom favored gripen
Then he just says"our better pilots" fought "them again. Then we kicked their a$$ brah"
So the Raptor is a lesser trained pilot away from being in trouble against a su 30 and this is somehow a vindication for the Raptor ? I think it speaks volumes for the abilities of the su 30 and 35.
Last edited by KGB; 17th February 2017 at 02:04.
Western observers had a keen eye on the operation in Syria to see just that. To see if Russia would have engine problems. None of the sort. Jets are getting put though the ringer with no engine problems at all.
The general said when US does those exercise with India in the past, they only sent their operational pilot with not alot of experience while India often sent their best. So India was able to win more time in close combat. However, when they used pilots with similar experience level, US side was able to dominate with F-15 carrying fuel tank while Su-30 is in clean configuration ( not that i buy what he said but if you think this video even remotely close to support your point then ......well i have no word ".
He did talk about an inexperience Raptor pilot being in trouble in close combat, but it is not against Su-30 but rather against F-15/F-16 in their own exercrise , he even mentioned that how they developed tactics against TVC opponents
Last edited by garryA; 17th February 2017 at 03:34.
or maybe just to "change his mind", not buy and let the next government do the opposite?
the fact that he supported rafale and went as far as proclaiming it a winner even before evaluation was
over still points toward dassault bribe, dont you think ?
I knew someone would com to a Godwin Point (bribes), but the example is hilarious. (i) there were politicla and strategic reasons for Lula support to Rafale. (ii) SAAB bribed Lula's son... Last year... So many years after SAAB's bankrupcy.
...So: you maintain that SAAB has bribed Lula & family members to buy Rafale ?
its odd to me, but, whatever floats your boat, and it was a failed bribe anyway,
Lula just cashed in and dropped the agenda
The USAF Col. in the video get into detail, with hand gestures and a video reference about su 30 vs Raptor.
We have a USAF col on the record saying that the export version su 30 (not 35) can do anything that the Raptor (not F 15) at an airshow yet we are questioning what aircraft is the best 4.5 gen ?
And I know airshows are not everything. But it still speaks volumes of the su 30 and 35.
But then garryA goes on about fuel tanks, better pilots and tactics blah blah blah. Better pilots ? Ok. The de-rated su 30 was dancing with the Raptor. If you want to talk better pilots, how about we take Russia's best pilots in their su 35's and compare. How about that ?
KGB, let's get this straight. You are using the much maligned debriefing from col. Fornof (not that he was wrong, just that his debrief was based on impressions) to support the idea that the Su-30 Mki is as maneuverable as the F-22? Did you get the part about F-15's drilling their brains out with guns going in the vertical? Good non-example. What's next hud footage of the Rafale killing the F-22 to prove the maneuverability of the Su-35 vis a vis the typhoon? They are pilot impressions from exercises, experience counts more than the platform.
Last edited by garryA; 18th February 2017 at 06:06.
He was still director of requirements and testing USAF warfare center in 2008( looked it up).
Last edited by FBW; 18th February 2017 at 12:19.
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