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Thread: Best 4.5 gen fighter

  1. #1
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    Best 4.5 gen fighter

    J-10B
    MiG-35
    Typhoon
    F/A-18E/F
    Su-35
    Rafale
    Jas 39
    F-16E

    J-10B for economic

    The J-10B differs from the original J-10A model in several ways: active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, integrated jamming pods, IRST sensor, diverterless supersonic intake (DSI), and an uprated AL-31FN Series III turbofan engine. These upgrades give the J-10B increased engine power, infrared detection against stealthy aircraft and increased jamming capability against enemy missiles. In particular, the DSI has two advantages over traditional engine intakes: it saves weight and is more stealthy against radar. The most important upgrade in the J-10B is its AESA radar, which features a longer range, frequency hopping to foil enemy jamming and higher power to track stealth aircraft (such as the US B-2, F-22, and F-35) at long range. The J-10B also possesses a strong multirole capability-- it can carry both 100km ranged PL-12 air to air missiles and LS-500J laser guided bombs on the same mission. These advanced "4.5+ generation" features places the J-10B in the same class as the F-16 Block 60 (flown only by the UAE), French Rafale, and Eurofighter Typhoon.

  2. #2
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    hello african-american adam, it depends what version of the Gripen

  3. #3
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    Sitting down with pop corn bucket. This topic gonna be fun for trolls.

  4. #4
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    What is the best color?
    Red
    Green
    Blue
    Purple
    Orange

    I pick Green because there are so many shades, and lime colored cars can be bought at the lowest price.......... But Red is obviously been upgraded recently with the addition of such shades as "lust" "oxblood".

    -Sarcasm off-

  5. #5
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    No Information F-16E and F-10B
    Line 209 - compared to the Su-27 in "dogfight"
    Line 221 - compared to the Su-27 in the "long range fight"

    Example: MiG-35 in close combat in 1.64 times better than Su-27

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  6. #6
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    Given that we're all posting in English, you might want to translate that or better yet, have a 2nd sheet with links to the 1st but with headers & row descriptions in English.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  7. #7
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    India: Rafale and Typhoon met MMRCA requirements (Rafale chosen)

    Switzerland: According to leaked reports Rafale scored overall higher than Typhoon and Gripen (however Gripen was chosen mainly due to lower price)

    Brazil: Gripen picked over Rafale and SH.

    Singapore: Rafale and F-15 short-listed (Typhoon dropped); F-15 was chosen over Rafale.

    South Korea: F-15 was selected over Rafale (the French protested: "Rafale won this evaluation but will not be awarded this contract," Robins said by telephone from Paris.)

    Overall the Rafale is an amazing platform. Whether it is "better than" the SH, Typhoon or even the F-15 depends on specific requirements, as demonstrated in several evals.

    F-16E and Gripen E are are smaller, lighter and not quite in the same league as the aforementioned fighters.

    Typhoon; as demonstrated repeatedly it has a huge potential...

    Edit:
    Reacting to the the Chinese J-20 stealth fighter being unveiled earlier his week, the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Western Air Command, Air Marshal SB Deo, said that it was not a cause for concern and that Rafael aircraft being inducted by India also had stealth features.*On a visit to the Ambala air base, Air Marshal Deo said that the Indian government is also seized of the importance of acquiring fighter aircraft with stealth features and this is why the Rafale aircraft being acquired from France has some special stealth features. “The radial cross section of the aircraft is significantly smaller for an aircraft of that size. There are many other features too which I would not like to disclose at this stage,” he said.
    http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...force-3737350/
    Last edited by Loke; 13th February 2017 at 16:36.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    Given that we're all posting in English, you might want to translate that or better yet, have a 2nd sheet with links to the 1st but with headers & row descriptions in English.
    196 wing angle
    197 wing extension
    198 wing loading
    199 fuselage extension
    200 Power steering engine / aircraft weight
    201 deviation of the thrust vector
    202 followed by a radar target
    203 targets simultaneously being attacked
    204 points of suspension
    205 RCS
    206 maximum overload
    207 acceleration
    208 flight distance

    212 top speed
    213 cruising speed
    214 flight distance
    215 Range Radar
    216 followed by a radar target
    217 targets simultaneously being attacked
    219 RCS
    220 range missiles "air - air"

    223 efficiency / cost
    225 generation

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralay View Post
    196 wing angle
    197 wing extension
    198 wing loading
    199 fuselage extension
    200 Power steering engine / aircraft weight
    201 deviation of the thrust vector
    202 followed by a radar target
    203 targets simultaneously being attacked
    204 points of suspension
    205 RCS
    206 maximum overload
    207 acceleration
    208 flight distance

    212 top speed
    213 cruising speed
    214 flight distance
    215 Range Radar
    216 followed by a radar target
    217 targets simultaneously being attacked
    219 RCS
    220 range missiles "air - air"

    223 efficiency / cost
    225 generation
    Your value is so strange, how come F-16 , F-18E , Typhoon has less radar range than Su-27 but Mig-35 has longer radar range ?
    Where exactly are those RCS value come from ? they do look very random
    The cruise value doesn't make any sense either. How come F-16 , F-18 , Rafale , Typhoon all has the same cruise speed as Su-27 but Su-35 is about 40% faster (while we know that Typhoon can supercruisequite fast) ??????
    Same goes for acceleration row : is bigger number mean better or vice versa ? If bigger mean better then there is no ways F-18E get better acceleration than Su-27. However, if smaller mean better then that doesn't make sense either because F-16 can actually accelerate better than Su-27.
    The missiles range air to air is also very controversial, what missiles are we talking about here ? R-27ER ? Meteor ? Aim-120D ?

    There seem to be so many random value in the table without proper references

  10. #10
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    Yes, it is not perfect.
    You can check and suggest corrections

    http://www.paralay.com/paralay_tab.xls

  11. #11
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    to me, it looks more like some guide table for a video game...

  12. #12
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    Popcorn for me please

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBW View Post
    What is the best color?
    Red
    Green
    Blue
    Purple
    Orange

    I pick Green because there are so many shades, and lime colored cars can be bought at the lowest price.......... But Red is obviously been upgraded recently with the addition of such shades as "lust" "oxblood".

    -Sarcasm off-
    Silver. You dont need to wash the car often when you´ve bought a silver one...

    Cheers

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    Silver. You dont need to wash the car often when you´ve bought a silver one...

    Cheers
    You don't need to wash your car often regardless of color unless you're German


    Oh and the best 4.whatever gen. fighter is of course the F-15.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  15. #15
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    F/A-18E/F, of course. The most mass produced, combat proven and equipped with AESA radar and whole bunch of the latest weapons and targeting/recce systems.
    Last edited by Scar; 13th February 2017 at 23:01.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    Popcorn for me please
    Help yourself

  17. #17
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    gripen E is hard to beat on many points, but especially on bang for buck.
    its directional data link means a stealth fighter is forced to use radar, at which point its no longer stealth and can be detected at greater ranges. If the stealth fighter doesnt flip on radar, it still comes out second best,
    because skyward G isnt less than any other IRST, while gripen frontal cross section is less and therefore radiate less

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by obligatory View Post
    gripen E ...its directional data link means a stealth fighter is forced to use radar, at which point its no longer stealth and can be detected at greater ranges.
    That's being overly simplistic as it does not take into account LPI modes or "why" the radar was used in the first place. For an "information sponge" like the F-22/35, the radar may only ever be used to get a precise range for a track that was originally created using the ESM, EOTS, etc and would only radiate for an extremely brief period of time. There are plenty of RedAir pilots that will talk about going against the F-22 and never getting any hint on their ESM that the F-22 was targeting them. Keep in mind that the F-22 does not have an IRST so the only way to get an accurate range is to use it's radar.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  19. #19
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    hence 'directional data link', F-22 wont ever get a whiff on gripen E, while gripen E otoh uses latest IRST,
    F-22 never got an initial track from ESM, and i'll have skyward G over EOTS for A2A.
    gripen E otoh will undoubtedly get an initial ESM track on F-22, since F-22 has no other means than to radiate,
    and to use djcross beaten slogan "if it radiates it dies"
    Last edited by obligatory; 14th February 2017 at 01:06.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    That's being overly simplistic as it does not take into account LPI modes or "why" the radar was used in the first place. For an "information sponge" like the F-22/35, the radar may only ever be used to get a precise range for a track that was originally created using the ESM, EOTS, etc and would only radiate for an extremely brief period of time. There are plenty of RedAir pilots that will talk about going against the F-22 and never getting any hint on their ESM that the F-22 was targeting them. Keep in mind that the F-22 does not have an IRST so the only way to get an accurate range is to use it's radar.
    Pleaae don't bring common sense into this.

    I'd like to explore this concept of silver cars not requiring as many washes...

  21. #21
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    Su-35

  22. #22
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    All I know is that its not the J 10.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    F/A-18E/F, of course. The most mass produced, combat proven and equipped with AESA radar and whole bunch of the latest weapons and targeting/recce systems.
    No super cruise.

    No TVC

    su 35.

  24. #24
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    Pretty obvious the F-15K offshoots are better than anything else listed. MiG-31 is my pick for running counter-air sweeps. If the US or Israel actually used the F-15K offshoots without export handicapping I'd be sure to cite it instead.
    Go Huskers!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Pretty obvious the F-15K offshoots are better than anything else listed. MiG-31 is my pick for running counter-air sweeps. If the US or Israel actually used the F-15K offshoots without export handicapping I'd be sure to cite it instead.
    What F-15K offshoots?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    That's being overly simplistic as it does not take into account LPI modes or "why" the radar was used in the first place. For an "information sponge" like the F-22/35, the radar may only ever be used to get a precise range for a track that was originally created using the ESM, EOTS, etc and would only radiate for an extremely brief period of time. There are plenty of RedAir pilots that will talk about going against the F-22 and never getting any hint on their ESM that the F-22 was targeting them. Keep in mind that the F-22 does not have an IRST so the only way to get an accurate range is to use it's radar.
    F-35 and F-22 are 5. gen and thus not part of this discussion (see first post that specified 4.5 gen... )

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    F/A-18E/F, of course. The most mass produced, combat proven and equipped with AESA radar and whole bunch of the latest weapons and targeting/recce systems.
    er, sorry, but by your standards, among the american fighters the F-16 comes ahead..

    total mass production, 4500 f-16s built for about 1500 hornets if wiki numbers are anywhere close to reality

    both combat proven, AESA radar today, weapons at least as various if not more (with users like israel for example) and so on...

  28. #28
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    Obviously the J-20

  29. #29
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    Arguing about who is the tallest midget.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by obligatory View Post
    its directional data link means a stealth fighter is forced to use radar, at which point its no longer stealth and can be detected at greater ranges. If the stealth fighter doesnt flip on radar, it still comes out second best,
    because skyward G isnt less than any other IRST, while gripen frontal cross section is less and therefore radiate less
    ESM is very bad in ranging a moving airborne target so Gripen would need a way to generate firing solution and F-22/F-35 can also be linked together so only one would need to transmit

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