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Thread: TAI Hurkus-C Close Air Support (CAS) aircraft to enter service

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    TAI Hurkus-C Close Air Support (CAS) aircraft to enter service

    TAI AIMS TO DELIVER ARMED HÜRKUŞ-C TO THE TURKISH FORCES IN 2017
    http://quwa.org/2017/01/18/tai-aims-...orces-in-2017/

    As per local Turkish media (e.g. Millyet), Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) aims to deliver the Hürkuş-C close air support (CAS) aircraft to the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) in 2017.

    The Hürkuş-C is the weaponized variant of the Hürkuş turboprop-powered training platform, which first flew in August 2013. TAI is positioning the Hürkuş as a replacement for legacy basic jet trainers such as the Cessna T-37 Tweet. The Hürkuş’ civilian version, Hürkuş-A, also achieved European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification in July 2016.

    Turkish Defence Minister Fikri Işık and the Undersecretary of Defence Industries (SSM) Ismail Demir visited TAI to oversee the manufacturing of a Hürkuş-C prototype.

    With a payload of 1,500 kg across seven external hardpoints, the Hürkuş-C will be armed with Roketsan’s UMTAS anti-tank guided missile and Cirit 70 mm laser-guided rocket system. The Hürkuş-C will also be equipped with a tactical data-link system, electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) system, self-protection system, and an armour reinforced airframe.

    On the grounds of lower operating costs in comparison to the F-16, the TSK will reportedly deploy the Hürkuş-C as part of its counterinsurgency (COIN) efforts. TAI may also market the Hürkuş-C to prospective overseas customers, placing it in direct competition with Embraer and its EMB-314 Super Tucano.

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    Last edited by Bayar; 12th February 2017 at 16:56.

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    Is it going to be equipped with internal machine guns? It would be nice to finally a new CAS aircraft with such armament.

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Get_It View Post
    Is it going to be equipped with internal machine guns? It would be nice to finally a new CAS aircraft with such armament.

    Cheers,
    The Hurkus-C has an external payload capacity of 1.5 Tons.

    Roketsan of Turkey has developed wing mounted machine gun pods which are integrated into the anti-armour weapons mounts directly under the winglets. Thus, the Hurkus-C has 2 wing mounted machine gun pods. The rationale for this was the quicker reload time with external mounted POD's.

    The Hurkus-C is designed more as an anti-armour (both light and heavy armour) aerial platform. It can carry Advanced Targeting and Navigation Pods together with fire-and-forgot ATGMs.

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    Last edited by Bayar; 13th February 2017 at 01:32.

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    Does the EO/IR turret have a laser designator which will allow Hurkus-C to use Cirit missiles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Does the EO/IR turret have a laser designator which will allow Hurkus-C to use Cirit missiles?
    Yes. The Hurkus-C uses the ASELSAN ASELFLIR-300T Electro-Optical Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Targeting System: See http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/capa...rgeting-system

    The ASELFLIR300T consists of:

    High Resolution Infrared Camera
    Laser Range Finder/ Designator (LRF/D)
    Laser Spot Tracker
    Color Day TV Camera
    Spotter TV Camera.

    Laser Range Finder and Target Designator:
    Range: up to 20 km
    Wavelength: 1064 nm
    Repetition rate: up to 20 Hz

    Laser Pointer- Wavelength: NIR
    Laser Spot Tracker- Wavelength: 1064 nm




    However, in addition to this as the Hurkus-C will have advanced data-links and network centricity- one aircraft in a squadron of Hurkus-C's can carry an ASELPOD Advanced Targeting Pod Electro-Optical Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Targeting System and the remaining aircraft can obtain target data from this single aircraft. Alternatively, F-16's providing escort roles to the Hurkus-C and/or AWACS aircraft can provide target data to the Hurkus-C's.

    The Hurkus-C will provide a cheaper aerial platform for asymmetric warfare.
    Last edited by Bayar; 13th February 2017 at 04:24.

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    impressive light bird. The short span tick wing makes for it perfectly (see the slow speed pull-up after the barrel-roll).

    However two things strikes me:
    - with 560+kph max speed clean, the carriage of an under-slung bulky turret will slow the plane down to the 450 range clean what could prove impractical. Wouldn't it be more wise to pair this twin seat connected aircraft with a drone?
    - Forget the F16 escorts. If you launch some Viper, they will be better at taking any sort of targets than wait for the Hurkus to do so...

    It's the same problem with all the 1500shp coin aircraft: the time when strafing was enough for most of the case involved are gone. The Pucara did proved even long ago that you need much more power and fuel to really do COIN.

    I remember seeing the A29 seating exposed vulnerable in Colombia since they did not have the range*payload *speed to be meaningful while being safely based out of disputed area. You can't expect too much with so few power. If you look at the Tern concept, you can see that ~5000SHP has become the norm with range in hundred of nautical miles .

    Anyway, still an impressive declination of the concept.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 13th February 2017 at 07:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    impressive light bird. The short span tick wing makes for it perfectly (see the slow speed pull-up after the barrel-roll).

    However two things strikes me:
    - with 560+kph max speed clean, the carriage of an under-slung bulky turret will slow the plane down to the 450 range clean what could prove impractical. Wouldn't it be more wise to pair this twin seat connected aircraft with a drone?
    - Forget the F16 escorts. If you launch some Viper, they will be better at taking any sort of targets than wait for the Hurkus to do so...

    It's the same problem with all the 1500shp coin aircraft: the time when strafing was enough for most of the case involved are gone. The Pucara did proved even long ago that you need much more power and fuel to really do COIN.

    I remember seeing the A29 seating exposed vulnerable in Colombia since they did not have the range*payload *speed to be meaningful while being safely based out of disputed area. You can't expect too much with so few power. If you look at the Tern concept, you can see that ~5000SHP has become the norm with range in hundred of nautical miles .

    Anyway, still an impressive declination of the concept.
    The Hurkus-C is also integrated with the TAI ANKA UAV platforms which have the ASELFLIR-300T, Synthetic Aperture Radar and Satellite uplink. The beauty of network centricity.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    I remember seeing the A29 seating exposed vulnerable in Colombia since they did not have the range*payload *speed to be meaningful while being safely based out of disputed area. You can't expect too much with so few power. If you look at the Tern concept, you can see that ~5000SHP has become the norm with range in hundred of nautical miles .
    Where did you get that idea?!

    The Super Tucano with the colours of the Colombian Air Force is nothing short of a massive and spetacular sucess. The Colombian Air Force is quite publicly pleased (thats an understatement).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    Where did you get that idea?!

    The Super Tucano with the colours of the Colombian Air Force is nothing short of a massive and spetacular sucess. The Colombian Air Force is quite publicly pleased (thats an understatement).
    That the CAF is pleased with what they have is one thing. Still the close-in basing wouldn't have supported any other kind of fight. I wrote it earlier but the inherent performance of this kind of plane lead to a de-facto balance b/w forces: no massive raids, no retaliation or base attacks.
    In Colombia, a large country with still vast inhabited zone without much infrastructure, a long range strike using Tucano leads to anything short of a meaningful payload, ridiculous time on station and vast delays in a TiC context. Please, refer to the plane own set of performances.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 13th February 2017 at 18:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    That the CAF is pleased with what they have is one thing. Still the close-in basing wouldn't have supported any other kind of fight. I wrote it earlier but the inherent performance of this kind of plane lead to a de-facto balance b/w forces: no massive raids, no retaliation or base attacks.
    In Colombia, a large country with still vast inhabited zone without much infrastructure, a long range strike using Tucano leads to anything short of a meaningful payload, ridiculous time on station and vast delays in a TiC context. Please, refer to the plane own set of performances.
    These type of aircraft are used against asymmetric threats primarily (well at least in Turkey's case). One would note that the Turkish Land Forces will be commissioning these aircraft not the Turkish Air Force. They are also great tank busters and excellent against border security. Cheaper running costs too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    These type of aircraft are used against asymmetric threats primarily (well at least in Turkey's case). One would note that the Turkish Land Forces will be commissioning these aircraft not the Turkish Air Force. They are also great tank busters and excellent against border security. Cheaper running costs too.
    So, we'll have to consider their performances in comparison with attack helos, not jets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellogo View Post
    So, we'll have to consider their performances in comparison with attack helos, not jets.
    We cannot deny that they will take some load off TuAF F-16's when used in the anti-terror/asymmetric threat/border patrol/coast guard roles.

    As a side note I think this is the first time winglets have been incorporated into a combat aircraft.

    The Turkish Army by commissioning 100 of these will significant increase their anti-armour capabilities.
    Last edited by Bayar; 17th February 2017 at 07:38.

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    TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES REVEALS HÜRKUŞ-C CLOSE AIR SUPPORT AIRCRAFT
    http://quwa.org/2017/02/17/turkish-a...port-aircraft/

    Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and Turkey’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) have revealed the prototype of the Hürkuş-C close air support (CAS) and lightweight attack aircraft.

    The Hürkuş-C is the armed variant of the Hürkuş turboprop-powered trainer, which flew in August 2013. TAI secured European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification for the Hürkuş-A in July 2016, the civilian version of the Hürkuş platform.

    As per the Turkish defence ministry, the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) will have the Hürkuş-C in its inventory in 2018. Like its competitors, such as the Embraer A-29 Super Tucano and IOMAX Archangel, the Hürkuş-C is positioned to provide CAS coverage in low-intensity combat environments.

    The Hürkuş platform is powered by a single Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-68T turboprop engine, which provides a power-rating of 1,600 shp and maximum speed of 574 km/h. TAI is aiming to supplant the PT6 with the domestically developed TUSAŞ Engine Industries (TEI)’s turboshaft engine.

    The Hürkuş-C has a payload of 1,500 kg, which can be utilized through seven external hardpoints.

    In the photos released by the Turkish MoD and TAI, the Hürkuş-C prototype was showcased with the Roketsan UMTAS anti-tank guided missile (ATGM), Roketsan Cirit laser-guided rockets, an electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) pod (likely the Aselsan Common Aperture Targeting System or CATS), and external fuel tank.

    Notes & Comments:

    The TSK’s apparent interest in the Hürkuş-C indicates that it is confident in using lightweight turboprop-powered attack aircraft in counterinsurgency (COIN) environments. This has been an increasingly common trend among air arms, especially in the developing world (i.e. Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa). The U.S. Air Force is also examining the utility of these platforms for its own CAS requirements.

    The main rationale for using Hürkuş-C-like platforms stems from the desire to lower the cost of air power, especially in low-intensity combat theatres where anti-air warfare threats are minimal, if not a non-factor.

    In these areas, flying a fast-jet such as the Lockheed Martin F-16 could cost tens of thousand dollars per sortie (at minimum) to deliver precision-guided munitions. Those same munitions could be deployed from a Hürkuş-C-like aircraft for a markedly per-sortie cost of several thousand dollars, if not lower.

    Commercially, the Hürkuş-C is vertically linked to the Turkish defence industry. The aircraft is supplied by TAI. Aselsan is likely providing the EO/IR solution via its CATS system, which can laser-designate targets at up to 25 km (to guide the UMTAS ATGM and Cirit rockets), and avionics. Roketsan is supplying the air-to-ground munitions. In time, the PT6A turboprop will be replaced by TEI’s engine.

    In effect, Ankara has control over the Hürkuş-C, which should give it considerable flexibility in marketing the product, albeit in a saturated space (with the A-29 as the market leader).
    ...

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