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Thread: 2017 PAK-FA Thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sab3r329 View Post
    Maybe the Indian version will have the more powerful engine along with the composites, while the Russian version will have to make do with the weaker version and be all-metal.

    /sarcasm
    People actually believed variations of this back in the year-two years after the first flight.


    But more seriously, FGFA won't escape the timeline shifts that PAK-FA internal re-work necessitated. Now will any negotiations make Type-30 development magically accelerate.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  2. #62
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    Landing gear bay doors seem to have been modified.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  3. #63
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    Indo-Russia fifth generation fighter aircraft will be completely new, not linked to Sukhoi T 50: Russia

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/57185821.cms

    Rostec has said that it is worrying that faster progress has not been made by the Indian side to finalise the project.

    "We have raised the matter at the highest level and had discussions at Aero India as well. What is worrying is that we are not yet taking the program ahead," Viktor N Kladov, Direct, International Cooperation, Rostec said, adding that he was hopeful that progress will be made this year to sign on the dotted line.

    Russia is keen to differentiate the Indian project with its ongoing T 50 fighter jet program. "The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program," Kladov said.

    Answering a query by ET on whether the Russian side would be willing to work on integrating a western engine to the fifth generation aircraft (Russia has been facing delays due to this), the executive said that such an approach would not be practical due to the history of sanctions by western powers. "Even in our plans to develop a new commercial aircraft to take on Boeing and Airbus, we are insisting on our own engine due to the past sanctions. In a military project these concerns are even more
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Indo-Russia fifth generation fighter aircraft will be completely new, not linked to Sukhoi T 50: Russia
    Sorry but that can't be !??? It would be ridiculous - and even more impossible in mind of budget - to develop a de facto new clean-sheet fighter.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Sorry but that can't be !??? It would be ridiculous - and even more impossible in mind of budget - to develop a de facto new clean-sheet fighter.
    Yes, basically this would indicate that the project is dead.

    Starting a clean slate design today puts IOC in the 2030 range.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Sorry but that can't be !??? It would be ridiculous - and even more impossible in mind of budget - to develop a de facto new clean-sheet fighter.
    As completely new as the Su-30SM is to the Su-30MKI .
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  7. #67
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    In past HAL/IAF chief has mentioned that Indian FGFA will have Type 30 Engine and Better Stealth , other than that 43 other improvements.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  8. #68
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    THE NEW ENGINE PAK FA

    https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/02/20/421325.html
    For the fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA) has developed a new engine, the press service of the United Engine Corporation (UEC). It is called "article 30". Prototypes were built and tested.

    Now the test samples of the PAK FA are flying on engines of the first stage - the AL-41F1 (article 117). This Aviation Turbofan engine with afterburner and thrust vector control, NPO "Saturn".

    "The product is 30", as emphasized in the DCS, it is not modernization, and a completely new engine of the fifth generation. Its main features include a new fan, totally redesigned compressor and a new management system. It 'a lot of innovations, which in some cases do not have a close and unique in the world We believe that with this engine T-50 will be even more breakthrough project, a thrust-weight ratio, more perfect. "- Said the representative Anton Chechukov Corporation.

    "Article 30" Engine allows us to develop a supersonic speed without afterburner, and also has a fully digital control system. From the engine for Su-35S (117S product), it features high tractive force, the new turbine and improved fuel consumption characteristics, and - fully digital control system.


    The first flight, the press service, will take place in the fourth quarter of 2017. Fifth-generation fighter deliveries to the troops could begin after 2018, according to the statement made by the Deputy Minister of Defence Yury Borisov, February 2, 2017.

    Comparing our and the American car, the magazine notes that the first versions of the PAK FA are equipped with two engines with a total thrust of 30,000 kg, and the total thrust of the two Pratt & Whitney F119 "Raptor" - about 32,000 kgs. However, the thrust of our advanced engine fighter - "product 30", saving the samples reached 35 000 kg, the manufacturer, the Yakovlev Design Bureau. Cradles planned to bring it up to 36 000. Obviously, the engines with these or similar characteristics and will be installed in 2017 on the PAK FA.

    At the same time they have the best performance on the speed deviation of the thrust vector for all angles, which allows the aircraft to "spin a top is almost in place," while at the engine F119-PW-100, set to "raptor" nozzle deflected only vertically. Moreover, at the speed of 20 degrees per second, while the speed deviation PAK FA, according to "PM", is 60 deg. / Sec. "Thus, - the magazine - with a maximum take-off weight of 37 tons (when the missiles on board, the PAK FA will be almost a half times higher than that of the F-22) thrust-weight ratio compared with the thrust-weight ratio" Raptor ", and in the middle - will exceed it is almost 10%. " As for the new main US aircraft, single-engine F-35 Lightning II, is under very limited maneuverability of its thrust-weight ratio of only about 20 000 kg.

    In the new engines of the Russian aircraft 5th generation applied unparalleled solutions.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Sorry to say, but that article does not make any sense.
    Thanks

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Sorry to say, but that article does not make any sense.
    +1 Hooray-patriotism, at its best(actually, worst).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    +1 Hooray-patriotism, at its best(actually, worst).
    Can we take the 35 ton kgf figure at face value?
    I mean is this to be found at any press news at UEC web sites.

    Most Russian Aviation related manufactors(Saturn, Salut etc) does not update their news websites in English very often, but they do so in Russian.
    Last edited by haavarla; 21st February 2017 at 06:58.
    Thanks

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Can we take the 35 ton kgf figure at face value?
    I mean is this to be found at any press news at UEC web sites.
    20 % more thrust over 117 Engine comes to ~ 17.5-18 T , So yes easily 35 Tons

    https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/02/15/420257.html

    Official statement
    Разрабатываемый для истребителя 5-го поколения Т-50 двигатель будет иметь тягу примерно на 20% больше, чем у двигателей предыдущего поколения, сказал журналистам генеральный директор Объединенной двигателестроительной корпорации (ОДК) на выставке Aero India 2017 в Бангалоре (Индия) Александр Артюхов.

    "Речь идет об увеличении тяги порядка на 20%", - сказал Артюхов на брифинге российской делегации, отвечая на вопрос, будет ли мощнее двигатель для Т-50, чем двигатель АЛ-41ФП,
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    20 % more thrust over 117 Engine comes to ~ 17.5-18 T , So yes easily 35 Tons

    https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/02/15/420257.html

    Official statement
    Something tells me the Obj 30 engine will have a larger fan diameter vs the F119 engine..
    Thanks

  14. #74
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    50-8 showed up at Zhukovsky:


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post

    Landing gear bay doors seem to have been modified.
    I wonder if we're going to see even more sawtoothing and other "stealthy" things ahead? Evidently not even the doors that have been the same for 7 years were actually final. I've kept saying it, the development of this bird is indeed highly unlinear.
    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug; 5th March 2017 at 13:40.

  16. #76
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    I'd imagine the progress in these areas will continue. But the stealth absolutists will still find little gimmicks to get hung up on and blow out of proportion.

    The persistants of these gimmicky attacks has already done reputational damage to the Pak Fa. They know this. Which is why they keep doing it.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I'd imagine the progress in these areas will continue. But the stealth absolutists will still find little gimmicks to get hung up on and blow out of proportion.

    The persistants of these gimmicky attacks has already done reputational damage to the Pak Fa. They know this. Which is why they keep doing it.
    What are you saying here??
    It sounds like you mean Sukhoi has been done reputational damage and then started to further evolve the PakFA..

    I can assure you Sukhoi don't give a crap @ss about This forum, F-16.net forum or any other forum says otherwise.
    Last edited by haavarla; 5th March 2017 at 18:56.
    Thanks

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Sorry but that can't be !??? It would be ridiculous - and even more impossible in mind of budget - to develop a de facto new clean-sheet fighter.
    Maybe the UAE project and FGFA will be rolled together into one.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Something tells me the Obj 30 engine will have a larger fan diameter vs the F119 engine..
    I'll will bet on similar fan diameter but with a reduced bypass ratio instead, like it was done with the F100-PW-229 version.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I'd imagine the progress in these areas will continue. But the stealth absolutists will still find little gimmicks to get hung up on and blow out of proportion.

    The persistants of these gimmicky attacks has already done reputational damage to the Pak Fa. They know this. Which is why they keep doing it.
    the importance of stealth technologies are decreasing with time. by practicing against various kind of drones some of them very small.

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/20170...drones-crimea/
    Russian Jets Intercept Growing Number of NATO Drones Near Crimea
    Russian vigilance indicates that stealth technologies are not effective against Russian air defenses, the source stressed.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    the importance of stealth technologies are decreasing with time. by practicing against various kind of drones some of them very small.
    Noone can deny utility of stealth. The idea is "is it worth aerodynamics, costs etc. compromises"?

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    Noone can deny utility of stealth. The idea is "is it worth aerodynamics, costs etc. compromises"?
    Until we have another Vietnam, nobody really knows where the happy medium is.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    Noone can deny utility of stealth. The idea is "is it worth aerodynamics, costs etc. compromises"?
    That stealth is old story it takes time to relegate into dustbin.. Wesley Clark not even mention it. Trump is channeling funding to nuclear weapons and ships and want to get the cheapest deal on F35. Once you go into cheapness it mean it's not important.
    http://nypost.com/2017/03/05/retired...gaining-on-us/

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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t-50-8_08.jpg 
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ID:	251865

    Seems that they've added a lot more RAM to the plane (light/pale turquoise is the RAM and the dull white is normal paint).

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTX-Horus View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t-50-8_08.jpg 
Views:	756 
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ID:	251865

    Seems that they've added a lot more RAM to the plane (light/pale turquoise is the RAM and the dull white is normal paint).
    How do you know the dull white is not RAM? Do the Russians have a radar transparent topcoat for their RAM in various colours?

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    How do you know the dull white is not RAM? Do the Russians have a radar transparent topcoat for their RAM in various colours?
    The turquoise areas also don't correspond to the areas where one would expect RAM to be applied.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopsalot View Post
    The turquoise areas also don't correspond to the areas where one would expect RAM to be applied.
    You do not expect RAM to be applied to the wings??

  29. #89
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    So at 3:22 is the first footage of the PAK-FA test firing from its internal bays?

  30. #90
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    CGI from a few years back.


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