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Thread: 2017 PAK-FA Thread

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post
    CGI from a few years back.
    Thanks. Disappointing but should have known with TVZvezda.
    Last edited by Ivan Colorado; 12th March 2017 at 17:38. Reason: Spalling

  2. #92
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    Also, you guys talking about that teal/turqoise thing, we saw that back in 2015 already...

    There are multiple types of coatings used and they're clearly engaged in some kind of evaluation program right now, based on how strangely they're being applied between airframes, this 50-5 is a great example:


  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post
    50-5 is a great example:...
    T-50-5R...

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt Anderson View Post
    T-50-5R...
    Of course, my bad.

    Anyway, more 058 @ Zhukovsky:



    Did they switch out the traditional landing lights for some kind of high-power LED array? Compare to the classic housing:



    Haha... Yes, they did. I'm sorry, I've not even noticed that for some reason but somebody must have mentioned it before, because it showed up already in the KnAAPO photos from last November:



    I'm not very good at spotting and keeping track of details, as usual.
    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug; 16th March 2017 at 11:41.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post
    I'm not very good at spotting and keeping track of details, as usual.
    Yeah, like I said... Apparently it showed up on 56 already.

    Anyway, yet another 058 from Zhukovsky:


  6. #96
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    Another pic:

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  7. #97
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    Wasn't it leaked a while back that the aircraft of the second stage would have slightly modified SRAAM bays? They don't look any different here.

  8. #98
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    look better with covered engines. Absolutly Fab!
    Thanks

  9. #99
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    The deleted engine cowling was one of the go-to hangups for the stealth absolutists.

    There. Its covered. One more gimmick crossed off the list.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    The deleted engine cowling was one of the go-to hangups for the stealth absolutists.

    There. Its covered. One more gimmick crossed off the list.
    Mind you there is only two or three more T-50 prototypes left before Pri-serial production starts.

    It should be quite telling, when the last prototypes leave KnAAZ floor and takes flight..
    By then i assure you i'll hangup on every little probe sensor, nob, air-intake mesh, external antennas, engine nozzles etc there is.

    And what do you mean by the word "gimmick"?
    If its only a gimmick as you say, then it should be no reason whatsoever for Sukhoi to cover those engine with Ram and IR-reduced skin.
    Last edited by haavarla; 17th March 2017 at 09:03.
    Thanks

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Mind you there is only two or three more T-50 prototypes left before Pri-serial production starts.

    It should be quite telling, when the last prototypes leave KnAAZ floor and takes flight..
    By then i assure you i'll hangup on every little probe sensor, nob, air-intake mesh, external antennas, engine nozzles etc there is.

    And what do you mean by the word "gimmick"?
    If its only a gimmick as you say, then it should be no reason whatsoever for Sukhoi to cover those engine with Ram and IR-reduced skin.
    joking I could say that you can start now, as the plane will not change from now to pre-production.


    On a more serious note, I'll express my own frustration for not given (via articles, publications and relevant press) any valid insight as to why the plane is designed the way it is. I can remember my younger self reading article after article about the the new stealth technologies when the US planes emerged. Drawings and cutouts explaining why things are the way they are, how every little detail makes a difference.

    Similar for the F-35, although it is a more industrially managed program, the flow of information is there.

    With the T-50... one has to guess often and take it on face value that "things will work out in the end" no matter how odd a design choice may seem.

    pheww.. got this out of ma chest!

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    On a more serious note, I'll express my own frustration for not given (via articles, publications and relevant press) any valid insight as to why the plane is designed the way it is. I can remember my younger self reading article after article about the the new stealth technologies when the US planes emerged. Drawings and cutouts explaining why things are the way they are, how every little detail makes a difference.
    The stealth patent explains quite a bit: http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/250/2502643.html
    Of course reading it through a translator can be confusing and leave some details obscure.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum View Post
    The stealth patent explains quite a bit: http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/250/2502643.html
    Of course reading it through a translator can be confusing and leave some details obscure.
    Could somebody out there do a proper translation from russian for us all? .. would be very appreciated!

    Thanks

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Could somebody out there do a proper translation from russian for us all? .. would be very appreciated!

    Thanks
    +1

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Mind you there is only two or three more T-50 prototypes left before Pri-serial production starts.

    It should be quite telling, when the last prototypes leave KnAAZ floor and takes flight..
    By then i assure you i'll hangup on every little probe sensor, nob, air-intake mesh, external antennas, engine nozzles etc there is.

    And what do you mean by the word "gimmick"?
    If its only a gimmick as you say, then it should be no reason whatsoever for Sukhoi to cover those engine with Ram and IR-reduced skin.
    A stealth gimmick can be best defined as a bolt-on or non structurally integral stealth LO feature. And it becomes a gimmick when f-22 fans use the absence of these features to question the stealth designation of the Pak Fa.

    And the uncovered engines was a prime example. Although it wasn't a mainstay of every F 22 fans "The Pak Fa is not stealth because X Y & Z" list, it was on some of them.

    The next gimmick I expect to see crossed off the list is either the non saw toothed engine exhaust tips or this little inanity that people have with the canopy leading edge.

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    joking I could say that you can start now, as the plane will not change from now to pre-production.


    On a more serious note, I'll express my own frustration for not given (via articles, publications and relevant press) any valid insight as to why the plane is designed the way it is.
    I have the same sentiments about the F 22. Why why oh why, if the goal is stealth, would they have vertical stabilizers that stick out like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

    You evidently have very little understanding of stealth.

  17. #107
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    New pics apparently:



    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    A stealth gimmick can be best defined as a bolt-on or non structurally integral stealth LO feature. And it becomes a gimmick when f-22 fans use the absence of these features to question the stealth designation of the Pak Fa.

    And the uncovered engines was a prime example. Although it wasn't a mainstay of every F 22 fans "The Pak Fa is not stealth because X Y & Z" list, it was on some of them.

    The next gimmick I expect to see crossed off the list is either the non saw toothed engine exhaust tips or this little inanity that people have with the canopy leading edge.
    I understand where you come from.
    But you do understand its not that black and white when it comes to VLO features?

    I don't think many on this forum would say; - PakFa does not have lots of saw-tooth plates, thereby its not a stealth platform.
    Its not some on-off switch.

    But i have some high expectation for Sukhoi to address some feature of the PakFa layout. The air-flow mesh on the air-intake are some of them.

    And pls stop using words as gimmick when addressing features on jetfighter, if its RCS or aerodynamics or whatever. It sounds so.. wrong.. (i was about to say unintellectual).
    Nothing jet fighter manufactors put on their jets are a gimmick, so just drop it.

    There are trade-off's all the time, all the way, always!
    Just remember, the added skin over the engine housing adds weight. And weight is a direct enema to any fighter jet.
    Thanks

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I have the same sentiments about the F 22. Why why oh why, if the goal is stealth, would they have vertical stabilizers that stick out like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

    You evidently have very little understanding of stealth.
    To be fair, i think its has something to do with the computing power(software algoritms), and general knowhow of then year FBW system that lead to the F-22 "large" verticals.
    Today you could most likely do a redesign on both F-22 and Flanker to reduce the verticals and still retain much of their agility and controlability.
    Thanks

  20. #110
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    One more:



    Again, some main landing gear bay door changes are visible.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    New pics apparently:

    Are there some changes to the SRAAM cowlings?
    In a lack of better word, they seems "beefed" up..
    Last edited by haavarla; 17th March 2017 at 18:50.
    Thanks

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    I have the same sentiments about the F 22. Why why oh why, if the goal is stealth, would they have vertical stabilizers that stick out like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

    You evidently have very little understanding of stealth.
    Who between us can say that he really know how stealth work? We can only read carefully what is published and try to get some general glimpses about it.

    F-22 was designed a lot of time ago, they made a superb work on it but as time goes by new things are developed, so something that actually comes cheap would have been absolutely unthinkable just twelve years ago, when it entered service.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla View Post
    Are there some changes to the SRAAM cowlings?
    In a lack of better word, they seems "beefed" up..
    RAM causing a bulging appearance IMO.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    RAM causing a bulging appearance IMO.
    Could be. Or perhaps they needed to make them ticker to withstand the harsh air-flow when they open up.
    Thanks

  25. #115
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    It is interesting to note that all "emitting surfaces" are covered with turquoise blue color... Including the underwing canoe

  26. #116
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    Bigger pic already posted:

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellogo View Post
    YES.
    no

    Damn idiots just blurred this old CGI.

  28. #118
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    From 10/3/2017 article.

    In addition, the Indian side is demanding that the FGFA project should directly aid a separate program, India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project, as well.
    https://sputniknews.com/military/201...ghter-dispute/
    Last edited by Freddy; 18th March 2017 at 01:06.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    no

    Damn idiots just blurred this old CGI.
    My bad, too much waiting for it.
    On a side note I justwonder how tiny both horizontal than vertical control surfaces look on the Pak-Fa.
    Just a little more than some canards, I guess
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 18th March 2017 at 09:52.

  30. #120
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