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Thread: Indian Air Force Thread 21

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakobS View Post
    We can only speculate of course, but if the Tejas were up for the challenge then they would never consider another foreign buy of a single engine fighter.
    I don't disagree.
    Realistically speaking, it is probably difficult to criticise IAF for taking the easy option. Like any other air force, they want everything top rated and now, and it is not really their job to think about the future of aviation sector in their country.
    Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    Regarding super 30 upgrade.

    Vijainder K Thakur‏ @vkthakur
    @raikartikey1 AL-41F is almost confirmed as powerplant. Deal should be signed this year.

    Fwiw.
    https://lenta.ru/news/2017/02/15/al41/
    General Director of United Engine Corporation said a few days ago they were offering the 117S for the Super 30.
    Curious, as the engine is slightly larger so will require some nacelle modification.

    He also said India has fully figured out the Al-31FP production process.
    Between that, and the supposed 117S order, I am still WTFing about the huge 2012 order for 920 Al-31s directly from UMPO......
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikasrehman View Post
    What is wrong with MK1?
    What is it that Bison/Mig27 can do that MK1 can't?
    They exist and can fly missions. As long as they can do that, there is no point replacing them with a plane which is only slightly more capable. You want to invest to something which brings signifant improvement over the old equipment.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakobS View Post
    The logic is quite simple, there are hundreds of single engine jets in the Indian Air Force that needs replacement. It's simply to expensive to replace them with an expensive fighter like Rafale, Typhoon, SH etc.

    The need for the 126 Rafale's is still there even though they are acquiring the single engine jet.
    But now instead of buying 126 Rafales, they are buying 36 Rafales and 90 single-engined fighters (which may yet end up being two-engined fighter). The new "cheap foreign fighter" will have little to no commonality with existing IAF fleet. Where's the saving going to come from?

  5. #125
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    its not too late yet to change the order for rafale M, and then order another 36 rafale M,
    and hand them to the navy

  6. #126
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    I still don't see single engine fighter thing to be anything more than pushing Dassault for a better deal for additional Rafale.

  7. #127
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    After speaking to ex ADA chief at Aero India this time , Seem the key bottle neck for Tejas which even in Mk1 capability the IAF wants to buy is HAL inability to produce in numbers IAF want and its unwillingness to outsource manuf components to SSI.

    The boss of 45 squadron who was at AI seems to be happy with Tejas and is proud of it , He mentioned there were some small issue of squadron deployment of new type but is extremely positive about the aircraft and its capability
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    After speaking to ex ADA chief at Aero India this time , Seem the key bottle neck for Tejas which even in Mk1 capability the IAF wants to buy is HAL inability to produce in numbers IAF want and its unwillingness to outsource manuf components to SSI.
    Sources in HAL said given the Centre's Make in India campaign and to save on time, outsourcing some manufacturing has happened and a few other projects are in the pipeline. The wing assembly has been outsourced to L&T, while 10 vendors will be in the fray for the centre and rear fuselage, for which tenders will be floated soon. "Outsourcing of 33 electrical panels, six mechanical assembly projects making of fin and rudder, etc is under way," they said. - Dec 2015


    Composite structures are produced by TASL

    CSIR-NAL successfully led the National Team for the composite wing development for Tejas. The laboratory has fabricated the composite wing spars, fairings and fairing blocks, fin, rudder, centre fuselage and the landing gear door of the Tejas. CSIR-NAL has earlier supplied 8 sets of carbon fibre components to HAL to the Tejas limited series production and now will be supplying additional 20 sets for the series production for which NAL has tied up with M/s. Tata Advanced Materials Limited, who is the production partner. - NAL

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinblade View Post
    I still don't see single engine fighter thing to be anything more than pushing Dassault for a better deal for additional Rafale.
    the indian tactic isnt working: they went out to buy 120 fighters including ToT for 10 billion dollars,
    and came home with 36 fighters for 9 billion dollars and no ToT.
    time to smarten up

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by obligatory View Post
    the indian tactic isnt working: they went out to buy 120 fighters including ToT for 10 billion dollars,
    and came home with 36 fighters for 9 billion dollars and no ToT.
    time to smarten up
    ToT worth $2.7 bn (30%) via offsets.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    After speaking to ex ADA chief at Aero India this time , Seem the key bottle neck for Tejas which even in Mk1 capability the IAF wants to buy is HAL inability to produce in numbers IAF want and its unwillingness to outsource manuf components to SSI.
    Wouldn't happen IMO if HAL were a company with shareholders. The customer (which did not own HAL) would want penalties for late delivery. Shareholders would murder the board of directors if they took no steps to avoid this.

    Ridiculous situation.
    Sum ergo cogito

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    After speaking to ex ADA chief at Aero India this time , Seem the key bottle neck for Tejas which even in Mk1 capability the IAF wants to buy is HAL inability to produce in numbers IAF want and its unwillingness to outsource manuf components to SSI.

    The boss of 45 squadron who was at AI seems to be happy with Tejas and is proud of it , He mentioned there were some small issue of squadron deployment of new type but is extremely positive about the aircraft and its capability
    This thing about the inability of HAL to churn them out in high enough number is something I cannot get my head around. They have been churning out fighters for decades. Sure enough those were licenced assemblies but with flankers, aren't they producing them from raw materials now? What is so different about Tejas? And if there is a problem, surely India should be looking for consultation/assistance in this area which would probably be a lot easier to get than asking for trade secret technologies in engine manufacturing etc.
    Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    ToT worth $2.7 bn (30%) via offsets.
    The offset clause has been there for years. I don't think it necessarily means ToT. They might just decide to manufacture bits and bobs in India from supplied kits.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikasrehman View Post
    The offset clause has been there for years. I don't think it necessarily means ToT. They might just decide to manufacture bits and bobs in India from supplied kits.
    The Rafale deal had a 50% offsets clause. 20% local workshare + 30% ToT.

    Among other things the ToT agreement is being used to revive the Kaveri. HAL expect to test it on a Tejas protoype in 2019/2020.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikasrehman View Post
    This thing about the inability of HAL to churn them out in high enough number is something I cannot get my head around. They have been churning out fighters for decades. Sure enough those were licenced assemblies but with flankers, aren't they producing them from raw materials now? What is so different about Tejas? And if there is a problem, surely India should be looking for consultation/assistance in this area which would probably be a lot easier to get than asking for trade secret technologies in engine manufacturing etc.
    Lic building an aircraft like 21,27 , Jags, Su that has been build in host country for years and under their expert guidance , handholding ,spoon feeding, CKD/SKD what not etc and building the one you designed for the first time are two different things.

    Life wont be so smooth for HAL there would be a steep learning curve under ADA guidance and HAL may have to improvise and learn or relearn things as they start building Tejas in numbers to production standards , Time will tell even if they will meet their own deadlines. We can only hope they wont disappoint the IAF and will do their task well on time and more numbers


    HAL has been taken to task by CAG for their low rate production of Dhruv

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle8006048.ece

    While the Cheetah and Chetaks are ageing platforms, in need of replacement, the low production rate of Dhruv’s, eight a year, by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) is limiting their induction in large numbers. It is yet to induct the armed Dhruv variants two years after the unit has been raised.
    Last edited by Austin; 19th February 2017 at 16:41.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  16. #136
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    Some more pics

    HTT-40



    IAF Rudra- ALH MkIV



    IAF Tejas Mk1



    IAF Jaguar DARIN 3


  17. #137
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    IAF SuryaKiran display team


  18. #138
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    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/57260971.cms

    "To speed up deliveries, Russia's S-400 air defence system may come without offset package"
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  19. #139
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    whats the rush ?
    pakistan imam having a bad hair day and decide to see how it works out mano-o-mano vs india ?

  20. #140
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    Deal for two A50 for phalcon finally signed

  21. #141
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  22. #142
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    HAL HTT-40 walkaround



    Specifications: Honeywell TPE-331-12B with 1100 SHP
    Ejection Seat: Martin Baker zero-zero ejection seat (compared to the PC-7 Mk2's zero-sixty ejection seat)
    Glass cockpit
    Max speed: 450 kmph
    Max altitude: 6 km
    Climb rate: 6 m/s
    max g load: +6g/-2.5g

    75 out of 90 LRUs made by HAL, 15 by private sector and 10 imported, mainly the engine, ejection seat and propeller from Hartzell Propeller Inc.

    Very high level of private sector participation in building.

    3 prototypes and 2 static test specimens

    Weaponized variant later

    Price estimated to be 42 crore INR ~6.2 Million USD
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 22nd February 2017 at 21:10.

  23. #143
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    Beautiful pic of IA Cheetah with the HAL LUH that will replace it in service


  24. #144
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    more eye candy

    LCH





    LCH and couple of Dhruvs


    LUH

  25. #145
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    Su-30MKI











    and the best one


  26. #146
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    Sarang display team with Dhruv ALHs






  27. #147
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    Suryakiran display team








  28. #148
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    Netra AEW&C






  29. #149
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    Tejas






  30. #150
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    Rafale in IAF colors..grey all over


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