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Thread: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread

  1. #1501
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    Jun 2014
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    1,416
    @Loke

    I'm referring to all the exercises cited in this newly opened thread and generally all those in which the F-35 has taken part from when it was declared IOC.
    In no one of this there was a direct confrontaiton between it and other plane of 4,5 or 5 gen.

    Maybe precisely for the reason you cited or for its real contrary: no one want to put him/herself (many Nato MoD are actually women) in the position of being forced to admit that the money spent on its latest uber-costly plane (it apply to all the whole lot) were somewhat wasted or that their own defence industry actually propone a plane that it is markedly inferior to the adversary (or than a.t.c. doesn't offer the advantages promised for its extra cost).

  2. #1502
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    I think you are wrong -- in general Western planes are not sold to adversaries of the West...

    And precisely for that reason it does not make sens to pit Rafale/Typhoon against the F-35/F-22... Better to spend the time and money to train scenarios against the most likely adversaries...

  3. #1503
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    Maybe precisely for the reason you cited or for its real contrary: no one want to put him/herself (many Nato MoD are actually women) in the position of being forced to admit that the money spent on its latest uber-costly plane (it apply to all the whole lot) were somewhat wasted or that their own defence industry actually propone a plane that it is markedly inferior to the adversary (or than a.t.c. doesn't offer the advantages promised for its extra cost)
    Your essentially looking for western airforces to hold exercises to justify your personal confirmation bias. Just as with your hope for all 4.5, 5th generation aircraft manufacturers to release time to climb-accelerate to supersonic numbers to demonstrate what you view as a critical parameter for fighter aircraft, you now want allies to hold exercises pitting the latest fighters from Europe and U.S. in some sort of "Battle Royale" to prove superiority.

    Needless to say, that isn't going to happen. Right now, the focus is on integration. It is critical for the F-35 and F-22 to be inoperable with allies. They want to test the proper force mix, comms, mission sets and how to utilize each aircraft to the best advantage. Later on, as more F-35 units are added, they will likely become the "fifth generation red air" representing advanced adversaries. That isn't the concern right now, integration is. There aren't any LO fighters in service outside of the U.S. (and perhaps the limited IOC of J-20 with China).

  4. #1504
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    Mar 2017
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    It is critical for the F-35 and F-22 to be inoperable with allies.
    Take it you meant 'operable'?

  5. #1505
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    Autocorrection of interoperable. iPhone's may be considered a "smartphone", but they don't raise the IQ of the user.

  6. #1506
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    Jun 2014
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    @FBW
    Seriously man, what have you smoked this evening?
    You are putting in my mouth something that exist just in your head and that costitute EXACTLY the contrary of my ideas and evaluation: I would consider someone asking for those thing you accuse me of desiring some poor, exalted F-16net preteen sucker.
    So please, you and the other from your parts.
    If you are convinced that everything is fine with the F-35 ok, just quit with this paranoid behaviour of seeing in any minimal discording affirmation (that in the case neither exist because with the fact that those sort of Battle Royale are totally pointless we totally agree) a sort of blasphemy and above all STOP PUTTING the RESULT OF YOUR OWN FRUSTRATIONS IN THE MOUTH of OTHER, please.

  7. #1507
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    Jun 2014
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    @ FBW
    and just to clear better the concept:
    Maybe precisely for the reason you cited or for its real contrary: no one want to put him/herself (many Nato MoD are actually women) in the position of being forced to admit that the money spent on its latest uber-costly plane (it apply to all the whole lot) were somewhat wasted or that their own defence industry actually propone a plane that it is markedly inferior to the adversary (or than a.t.c. doesn't offer the advantages promised for its extra cost).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
    or also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 22nd May 2017 at 22:33.

  8. #1508
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    Marcellago- I'm not entirely sure why you had such a strong reaction to someone countering your opinion.

    Myself, and others were trying to explain why the 5th generation US aircraft operate on the same "side" in exercises as European so called "4.5 generation ". It simply isn't about finding out what aircraft is better.

    I very much doubt I misunderstood your posts ( despite the language barrier), as you repeated it several times over the last few pages. I'm sorry I don't agree with your opinion on the purpose of NATO exercises like Atlantic trident. However, please don't assume it's about defending the F-35, that would be a mistake on your part. It IS about clearing up your misunderstanding of the purpose of exercises, whatever your views on the F-35, Rafale, Typhoon.

    Nothing paranoid about it at all. Your views are clear, i disagree with them based on what I know and have read. That is the point of forum discussions, if you have information to counter what I have said, please share. If you are offended simply because i don't share your opinion, I'm sorry by you need to have thick skin when you post.

    Edit- i went back and read all your posts from the start of the discussion about exercises in order to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you. There are several contradictions and simply wrong assumptions in your posts;1. Yes the F-35 was a shooter in exercises, as several poster corrected your assumption. 2. Yes, the Typhoon, Rafale, and F-22 have faced each other in exercises. 3. As with the F-22, early exercises with the F-35 will focus on integrating them with allied forces (yes I see that you stated that, but then repeated how the F-35 has only faced "heritage" fighters). The "fun" dact exercises will come later. 4. No airforce is worried their latest fighter is inferior based on an exercise, generally even allies aren't going to expose the full capabilities of radar and EW systems in those types of exercises (why do you think every other Red Flag is generally US only?)
    Last edited by FBW; 23rd May 2017 at 00:13.

  9. #1509
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    Aug 2012
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    3,047
    Seriously man, what have you smoked this evening?
    You are putting in my mouth something that exist just in your head and that costitute EXACTLY the contrary of my ideas and evaluation: I would consider someone asking for those thing you accuse me of desiring some poor, exalted F-16net preteen sucker.
    So please, you and the other from your parts.
    If you are convinced that everything is fine with the F-35 ok, just quit with this paranoid behaviour of seeing in any minimal discording affirmation (that in the case neither exist because with the fact that those sort of Battle Royale are totally pointless we totally agree) a sort of blasphemy and above all STOP PUTTING the RESULT OF YOUR OWN FRUSTRATIONS IN THE MOUTH of OTHER, please.
    Get a grip.

  10. #1510
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    2,303
    @hops- still amazed how pointing out that his opinions just aren't reflected by the actual exercises was offensive. Loke said the same thing.

    In any case, good article from AFM (posted over at f-16.net by spazinbad):
    http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/...d-Succeed.aspx

    Not sure the F-35 program would have succeeded without Bogdan, he might have been the turning point. Venlet just didn't grasp the urgency or PR nightmare looming. He was like the befuddled police officer waving people by a train wreck, "move along, nothing to see here".

    Edit- not entirely fair to characterize Venlet that way, he helped turn the program around. He just didn't have the charisma or ability for straight talk Bogdan did. Program went off the rails under Heinz and predecessors.
    Last edited by FBW; 23rd May 2017 at 02:41.

  11. #1511
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    Jun 2014
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    1,416
    FBW
    Maybe because in all my post I have said the same thing that you?
    And in the most neutral and anodine language that I can find, and you accused me "to just confirm my personal bias" iif this is not getting persoNal, man I didn't know what it can be.
    The same about my supposed desire of having such OK Corral duel, when in ALL my post I have expressed the contrary opinion that all the focus is instead in what you suddenly discover just now i.e. the integration between actual front line planes and not between one and the other of them.
    I remember I have written a post clearlyexpressing my great satisfaction for the results of it given that my own country Air Force , together with Uk is going to operate Typhoon and F-35 together...
    I just permitted myself to publish a clearly ironic post (I have also erased a part of it, where I said that such a duel thing could interest just armchair generals like us and maybe the production firms) and you not just missed it completely but use it for a frantic tirade , putting your own though on my account.
    So, sorry for being Human and sometimes reacting on the spur of the moment but yes, you totally misunderstood me.
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 23rd May 2017 at 06:48.

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