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Thread: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread

  1. #1741
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    @halloweene
    Generally speaking, wing is-by far- the part of the plane that will have the best Cz. Hence larger wings = Better Cz of an airframe.
    No, larger wing does not equal bigger CL. Wing with bigger area need to be thinner and has higher sweep angle so as to not increase drag too much

  2. #1742
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    ing with bigger area need to be thinner and has higher sweep angle so as to not increase drag too much
    That's why delta was created...

  3. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    That's why delta was created...
    Ah, but a delta needs relatively high AoA at low speeds, creating visibility problems in a carrier aircraft, which can in turn force designers to go with a very small nose...leaving a significantly larger aircraft with a smaller radar than an F-16 and no space for a retractable refueling probe...

  4. #1744
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    That's why delta was created...
    And delta wing have lower CL than normal wing, that why it need high AoA at low speed.

  5. #1745
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    And that is the reason because from 1970 onward (with Viggen) they have begun to put canards or even more simpler strakes (like on Mirage 2000) on them.
    So we are discussing on an issue that was solved more than 45 years ago?

  6. #1746
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    And that is the reason because from 1970 onward (with Viggen) they have begun to put canard or also simply strakes (like on Mirage 2000) on them.
    So we are discussing on an issue that was solved more than 45 years ago?
    Close coupled canard, strake help create vortex to increase CL , the same function as LERX on normal wing. So they both have mean to improve their coefficient but normal wing start off from higher value.
    Last edited by mig-31bm; 8th June 2017 at 15:16.

  7. #1747
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    Yes , this allow not just better performances but also help to solve the issue that hopsalot has highlighted, allowing a shorter landing run, more security and the possibility to be used on carrier.

  8. #1748
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    Back on topic,
    first appearance of a LO fighter at Le Bourget since the B-2 imminent:
    http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35...-returns-paris


    Some see a bit of contradiction in the Berlin-Paris pledges and the recent request for F-35 Briefing by Germany
    https://www.lesechos.fr/monde/europe...se-2091403.php

  9. #1749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellogo View Post
    Yes , this allow not just better performances but also help to solve the issue that hopsalot has highlighted, allowing a shorter landing run, more security and the possibility to be used on carrier.
    Help solve is not the same thing as solve...

  10. #1750
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    Well, Rafales operates from Charles de Gaulle without any problem, so it just work.
    Viggen and Gripen take off and landfrom motorways also, so I think we can take it as a matter of fact.

  11. #1751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellogo View Post
    Yes , this allow not just better performances but also help to solve the issue that hopsalot has highlighted, allowing a shorter landing run, more security and the possibility to be used on carrier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellogo View Post
    Well, Rafales operates from Charles de Gaulle without any problem, so it just work.
    Viggen and Gripen take off and landfrom motorways also, so I think we can take it as a matter of fact.
    A matter of fact that it is possible to build a delta winged carrier aircraft?

    I can't tell if you are struggling with the language here or just being difficult.

  12. #1752
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    In the meanwhile canada DM announces (again) a fair competition ahead.

    https://twitter.com/HarjitSajjan/sta...12008670904321

  13. #1753
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    Some see a bit of contradiction in the Berlin-Paris pledges and the recent request for F-35 Briefing by Germany
    https://www.lesechos.fr/monde/europe...se-2091403.php
    Sincerely, Germany has been knocking at FCAS door for years now (even proposing to build a fighter inside it). I wouild more see it as a threat. but of course it isn't compeltely mutuallyexclusive (FCAS and F-35)

  14. #1754
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    In the meanwhile canada DM announces (again) a fair competition ahead.
    One bright note is that we'll see Block 3F in action.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  15. #1755
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    In the meanwhile canada DM announces (again) a fair competition ahead.

    https://twitter.com/HarjitSajjan/sta...12008670904321
    Not keeping up with their program but wasn't a new type 'competition' broken down into an urgent Super Hornet buy and a competition because as per the current Government, the previous one had neglected an urgent need for fighter recapitalization forcing the current one to pursue an urgent sole source F-18E/F purchase while drafting a more long term competition for the rest of the fleet? It seems that the current government has decided to neglect their air-force's urgent need (of which the officials cannot speak since there is a lifetime gag order) and may pass on an unmet urgent need to the next government, just like they claim the previous one did with them. .
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  16. #1756
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    Some see a bit of contradiction in the Berlin-Paris pledges and the recent request for F-35 Briefing by Germany
    https://www.lesechos.fr/monde/europe...se-2091403.php
    If the Luftwaffe sticks in the KPP´s a LO RCS airframe for the replacement of their Tornado fleet, while toying with a date of around, lets say, 2030, reality is a cold hard place and the F-35 is the only game in town, if not they can go FCAS/Korean/Japanese/Martian/whatever.
    While every single official document on this matter released by the Luftwaffe and the German MOD for the last few years has asked specificaly for an European solution i can easily see the F-35A has the replacement for the Tornado fleet ("only game in town" bit) while working with the French on a Eurocanard replacement.

    Cheers

  17. #1757
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    Not keeping up with their program but wasn't a new type 'competition' broken down into an urgent Super Hornet buy and a competition because as per the current Government, the previous one had neglected an urgent need for fighter recapitalization forcing the current one to pursue an urgent sole source F-18E/F purchase while drafting a more long term competition for the rest of the fleet? It seems that the current government has decided to neglect their air-force's urgent need (of which the officials cannot speak since there is a lifetime gag order) and may pass on an unmet urgent need to the next government, just like they claim the previous one did with them. .
    Yes, they suddenly decided that they had an urgent requirement that forced them to buy Super Hornets for delivery in the early 2020s. (rather than F-35s or literally any other fighter in production, all of which could have been delivered on the same timeline) It now appears they not longer perceive this urgent need...

    The whole thing is just a big excuse to punt of course. An open, transparent, and most importantly -slow- competition will ensure they needn't do anything at all for the foreseeable future while their existing fleet of jets ages out.

  18. #1758
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    Ah, but a delta needs relatively high AoA at low speeds, creating visibility problems in a carrier aircraft, which can in turn force designers to go with a very small nose...leaving a significantly larger aircraft with a smaller radar than an F-16 and no space for a retractable refueling probe...
    Or maybe the F16 has a bigger nose because it's not a carrier capable aircraft.

  19. #1759
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    The machine is so "smooth" that we must make new F-35 pilots specially aware of this. The F-35 will slip into a higher speed if you do not pay attention. That's why it's not uncommon that a pilot without meaning to do so ends up in supersonic speed!
    Google translated from: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/ka...l-luft-rollen/

    Hmm -- does this not imply that the F-35 can potentially (and easiliy) go supersonic without using afterburner?

    Another snippet:

    I have been introduced to "El Gato" during the fall when he learned to fly F-35 with us. "Gato" is an experienced F / A-18 pilot who has gone through the weapons schools of both the US Marine Corps and the US Navy, also known as Top Gun. Let me quote El Gato, after his first flight in F-35A: "... it flies like a hornet, but with four engines ...". (In comparison, the F-18 usually has two engines). Or to quote one of my Italian colleagues, after his first taste of F-35: "I did not think performance like this was possible." (Thus, in a positive sense.)
    I wonder what the Italian pilot had been flying previously!?

    In any case, there is no doubt that the F-35 will deliver on it's promises, in all roles (including a2a). What an incredible machine.

  20. #1760
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    Google translated from: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/ka...l-luft-rollen/

    Hmm -- does this not imply that the F-35 can potentially (and easiliy) go supersonic without using afterburner?
    Really..

    It means that NorAF pilots are used to fly F-16 which is mostly heavy(drag) laden with two wetbags and four AIM's. They get the feel of F-35 increased subsonic acceleration right through the transonic regime.

    But where do you get the "without" AB?

    This is ooooold news. Been debated to death.
    Last edited by haavarla; 9th June 2017 at 10:21.
    Thanks

  21. #1761
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla
    Really..

    It means that NorAF pilots are used to fly F-16 which is mostly heavy(drag) laden with two wetbags and four AIM's. They get the feel of F-35 increased subsonic acceleration right through the transonic regime.

    But where do you get the "without" AB?

    This is ooooold news. Been debated to death.
    This doesn't establish that the F-35 can go supersonic without afterburner, but it is yet another source that shows that it certainly has no trouble going supersonic. (unlike the claims of the various fanboys around here...)

    All models of the F-16 are known for having strong acceleration. Obviously we can't know exactly which one and which loadout he is comparing against, but the bottom line remains the same. If the F-35 is quick compared to a combat loaded F-16 then it is plenty quick period. (remember, we once had people here claiming that the F-35 wouldn't be able to perform even air policing missions... )

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere
    With the F-35, I am missing speed. I am missing agility. I am missing maneuvrability. I am missing range. I am missing loiter times. I am missing extreme kinematics/acceleration throughout the WHOLE envelope not just from 0 to 200 mph. I am missing ability to enter or disengage a fight at will. I am missing an aircraft instead of an Airbus stuffed with blings.

    Hell, it's not even pretty... !!
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...wn-risk/page20



    Read that, then read what the actual pilot had to say. Guess which one is clueless.

  22. #1762
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    That Hancke Norwegian Pilot basicly said the same thing.
    But again, it doesn't give the F-35A supercruise stamp..

    - but but, it has so much Thrust!
    It also have so much drag. Thrust has to overcome drag, there is no way around this.

    I'm just perplexed that people whom really like the F-35 wont let this go..
    Just face it and move on!!
    Last edited by haavarla; 9th June 2017 at 13:44.

  23. #1763
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    https://www.dodbuzz.com/2017/05/17/t...craft-carrier/

    Donald Trump tells Coast Guard He saved them money on the F-35


  24. #1764
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    But where do you get the "without" AB?
    So are you suggesting they turn on AB without noticing? Do you really thing the F-35 user interface is that crappy?

  25. #1765
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    So are you suggesting they turn on AB without noticing? Do you really thing the F-35 user interface is that crappy?
    There are a couple plausible things he might have been referring to... either while accelerating in AB it is easy to push the plane supersonic without intending to, or perhaps if the F-35 is cruising at high subsonic and goes into a dive it can inadvertently go supersonic.

    In either case it shows the F-35 doesn't struggle to go supersonic.

  26. #1766
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    Donald Trump tells Coast Guard He saved them money on the F-35
    Why bring up an almost month old story that was pretty weak in the first place? Obviously the Coast Guard does not operate F-35s or aircraft carriers, but they are part of the US armed forces and in wartime can (and have been) subordinated to the US Navy.

  27. #1767
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    There are a couple plausible things he might have been referring to... either while accelerating in AB it is easy to push the plane supersonic without intending to, or perhaps if the F-35 is cruising at high subsonic and goes into a dive it can inadvertently go supersonic.
    Good points -- my brain was not working properly...

    In either case it shows the F-35 doesn't struggle to go supersonic.
    Indeed.

  28. #1768
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    OBIGGS problem grounds local jets

    The 56th Fighter Wing at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, has cancelled local flying operations for its F-35A Lightning II fighters after five incidents in which pilots experienced symptoms similar to hypoxia, or oxygen deprivation.

    In a release Friday, the Air Force said that the five pilots reported those incidents over the last month, since May 2. The backup oxygen systems in the F-35As kicked in during each incident, and the pilots followed the procedures necessary to safely land the plane.

    "In order to synchronize operations and maintenance efforts toward safe flying operations, we have cancelled local F-35A flying," Brig. Gen. Brook Leonard, commander of the 56th, said in the release. "The Air Force takes these physiological incidents seriously, and our focus is on the safety and well-being of our pilots. We are taking the necessary steps to find the root cause of these incidents."
    More at the Jump

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...en-deprivation

    Never let it be said that I only report the good news.

    From the same source.. The F-22's OBIGGS problem was a valve on the vest and not the OBIGGS itself.

    The F-22 Raptor also struggled with oxygen problems that led to hypoxia in its pilots, leading the Air Force to ground the planes for five months in 2011. The Air Force in July 2012 said that the F-22's hypoxia problems were caused by a faulty valve on the pilots' life support vest, which was improperly tightening and constricting their breathing.
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 9th June 2017 at 19:51.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  29. #1769
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    Time to supplement OBOGGS with LOX or GOX bottles

  30. #1770
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    The F-35 already does.

    From the press release:

    The backup oxygen systems in the F-35As kicked in during each incident
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    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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