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Thread: VTTS Hard Facts Finally Coming Home To Roost?

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADSACK View Post

    Elvington dont have the use of the runway. I gather it is covered in go carts, but we should be grateful that the museum were able to use it for so many years, hence the arrival of the Victor and Nimrod.
    No go karts THey run super car driving days once a month, and the odd other event, but generally it is unused. Except for the aircraft which still regularly use it.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by exmpa View Post
    There's only one problem with that. Down the back were 3 blokes who would be much less enthusiastic than the 2 up the front about investigating infrequently visited corners corners of the flight envelope. So if anyone even contemplated doing it they would have to sell it to SODCAT* first.

    exmpa

    *Society of Directional Consultants and Allied Trades
    Those 3 blokes might not have realized it was rolling. I've been in a Lear & the only indication it was rolling was the spot of sunlight coming through the window moving rapidly across the floor/wall/ceiling
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  3. #363
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    Never flown in the rear of a V have you? If you had you would realise what a ludicrous suggestion that is.

    exmpa
    Last edited by Moggy C; 17th February 2017 at 12:29. Reason: Unnecessary quote of entire post directly above removed

  4. #364
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    It would be nice if you could add some thoughts and details .If it was flown smoothly [is it possible in a V bomber?] ,i guess we have all seen Bob Hoover pour out tea whilst barrell rolling evenly.
    Last edited by Moggy C; 17th February 2017 at 12:29. Reason: Unnecessary quote of entire post directly above removed

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumper View Post
    It would be nice if you could add some thoughts and details .If it was flown smoothly [is it possible in a V bomber?] ,i guess we have all seen Bob Hoover pour out tea whilst barrell rolling evenly.
    It's not about smoothness, it's all about mechanics and physiology. Keeping +ve g applied throughout a Barrel Roll isn't difficult, but applied g will always be >1g. Even if the rate of onset is low this will still be readily perceived by the time the maximum value is achieved. When you address the angular accelerations, keeping them below threshold level (1deg/sec2)on entry and exit would be near impossible. It's the acceleration values that matter, not the final rate achieved. Add to this the fact the the rear crew are travelling backwards in a dimly lit cabin with no reliable visual reference and are then subjected to a manoeuvre that will induce a series of vestibular generated illusions. Do you really think that they won't notice?

    All of the above plus the H2S scanner toppling, radar picture lost, large variations in IAS, altitude and heading changes, change in noise level. I could go on, but you get the picture. This is real world, not the imagined one.

    exmpa

  6. #366
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    Sorry, I still don't understand, as said before, if this can be done in the video link below, ( the commentary says the passengers in the back didn't spill their drinks) what would have been so different in a Vulcan ? Why would the scanner topple, when the ball on the string below the tea stays suspended, even when upside down ?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V9pvG_ZSnCc
    Last edited by Moggy C; 17th February 2017 at 12:29. Reason: Unnecessary quote of entire post directly above removed
    Wide open & turning left

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by exmpa View Post
    Never flown in the rear of a V have you? If you had you would realise what a ludicrous suggestion that is.

    exmpa
    Having a problem with the definition of *might*? I wasn't referring to noises, the instruments in front of their faces etc. I was referring to their fat ass sat in a seat. Feel free to respond with more sanctimonious attitude, you seem like a natural.
    Last edited by ZRX61; 16th February 2017 at 05:44.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  8. #368
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    re;

    I think the chap to whom you refer is a very experienced jet pilot.
    Last edited by Moggy C; 17th February 2017 at 12:29. Reason: Unnecessary quote of entire post directly above removed
    pb::

  9. #369
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    I didn't think he was in PR.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  10. #370
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    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-40898652
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  11. #371
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    "Supporters of the last airworthy Vulcan bomber..."

    Two years too late! Desperate times for Vulcan To The Skip.

  12. #372
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    I didn't think that first sentence worth mentioning!

  13. #373
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    According to reports on various XH558 Facebook pages the Vulcan is now being stored outside for the foreseeable future along with all of its equipment and the dismantled Canberra

  14. #374
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    Just for entertainment, here's a beautifully-flown barrel roll by a German Transall crew

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6qDHyKi8PY

    Barrel rolls are also 'common' in big-Boeing simulators, I'll ask a colleague to watch the g-meter next time he does one.

  15. #375
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    Such a shame how this project is mismanaged. And if the Vulcan is not bad enough, they bought a second victim, the Canberra.

  16. #376
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    Hi All,
    Silly question time again - If they are having such a bad time in getting '558' under cover is it feasible that the RAF could donate a hanger that would be torn down otherwise when vacating one of the recent bases ? Or is just cheaper to build a new one ?

    Seems such a shame that an aircraft that gave so much in and out of service will be left outside when it should be inside open to all weathers because of poor management of the project indeed the whole hanger issue as Fouga23 suggests unless they can store everything in weather proof protection and at an ex 'Vulcan' dispersal......

    Geoff.

  17. #377
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    I think the biggest cause is that they didn't have a solid retirement plan from the beginning. Now there are 2 aircraft sitting outside, and meanwhile the big kahuna still gets his (large) paycheck.
    I also doubt they are at the right airport for long term preservation plans.

    Meanwhile, as an example of how it's done, Vulcan restoration thrust just got a permanent hangar for XL426!

  18. #378
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    re:

    that was some good news and unexpected!
    pb::

  19. #379
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    I don't think he gets paid anymore, it ended when they fired everyone. I foresaw this years ago and said so, a commercial airport is never ever going to work as a home, commercial factors will always come first, and once dead its just another lump of rotting metal parked outside along with a myriad of others. Paint your name on it...... Sounds like the poor old A1 lightning.
    Last edited by TonyT; 12th August 2017 at 13:34.

  20. #380
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    Please don't wish that fate on it!

  21. #381
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    The problem is that VTTS have been acting like they still have something unique, whereas they don't! There are other ground running Vulcans out there! They even have better paintjobs. These other Vulcans are also far easier to access, both in terms of location and in terms of cost.

    I've seen a photo earlier today on Facebook of the Canberra outdoors. They've put a cover over the cockpit, but the horizontal stabilisers are off and sitting on the ground.

  22. #382
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    There's a post on the VTTS FB page from some bloke quoting ridiculous prices people are expected to pay to visit XH558.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  23. #383
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    As we know, Vulcans can move by road ( Hendon ) though with much hassle and cost.

    It surely needs to be moved soon to a respectible venue with hangarage, such as Elvingon just 40 miles away. (sorry if this has already been said, have not read 13 pages !)

    Outside storage destrroys aeroplanes and whatever happens it must be fast, as it wont be long before it is just another knackered, fading Vulcan with flat tyres and water in the cockpit.


    As a stand-alone exhibit in its own personal museum I am certain it can NEVER pay its way as it is simply not that much of an attraction.

  24. #384
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    I feel it's quite sad that it has come to this, after so many of us got so much pleasure from seeing her fly.
    The "Vulcan Effect" certainly increased numbers at airshows. As others have said, XH558 is now just another
    Vulcan to look at on the ground. Would I pay to go and see her ?, probably not.
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  25. #385
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    Yes it is sad but there's no guarantee that any of the alternative resting places endlessly rehearsed here would have been any better. Hangerage is not guaranteed at Elvington and in any case Lindy remains outside, running and well cared for.

    Most of us and millions of non enthusiasts enjoyed her displays over those years and as Alan said crowds were boosted by the Vulcan effect such was her drawing power.

    All good things eventually come to an end.

  26. #386
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    This sadly demonstrates the arrogance of some at VTTS (not all): those with experience, knowledge and good common sense advised against placing XH558 at Doncaster but were shouted down. Too late for navel gazing now I guess, so hopefully the Canberra (and Swift?) can be rescued even if '558 is destined for the next Cockpitfest.


  27. #387
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    However strongly the anti Doncaster brigade argued for alternatives there is no evidence that any would have been any better.

  28. #388
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    The problem is that VTTS have been acting like they still have something unique, whereas they don't!
    That absolutely nails it for me. It is now just A.N.Other retired big old jet that will eventually, despite any and all best efforts, deteriorate. There are preserved Vulcans all over the place, including as has been said ground running examples that the public can actually SEE, for a small fee; the arrogance of what they still try and charge to see '558 must surely be utterly unsustainable in the long term, as is any idea of having public taxi runs at Doncaster, or building an aviation academy around it, as if it is some kind of holy artefact.

    Basically, it's screwed.

  29. #389
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    Other than being the last one to fly, is XH558 special in any other way?
    If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space!

  30. #390
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    There is plenty of evidence that other sites would have been better! Look at all the other museums that have Vulcans who don't have to resort to yearly media campaigns to raise money to ensure their existence. There has never been an Anti Doncaster lobby - there have been concerned people looking at a commercial airport that will either flourish and expand reducing the opportunities for 558 or become another housing estate. To believe that you could transition from a flying attraction into a successful exhibit/academy was massively optimistic.

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