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Thread: Chinese air power thread 18

  1. #601
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    J20 Induced in PLAAF

    China’s new generation stealth fighter jet, the J-20, is serving in the People’s Liberation Army air force, according to state media.
    Video footage from CCTV Channel 7 on Friday night showed J-20 fighters joining the PLA air force with Y-20 transport planes and H-6K bombers. CCTV did not say how many J-20 fighter jets were serving in the air force.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    Note, they only say it is in service they do not say what degree of service (IOC etc), which obviously they do not ever release to us.

    I imagine J-20 at this stage has entered service in the sense that the air force is using them in the IOT&E stage.

  3. #603
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    Can someone refresh my memory, what is the status of Chinese Flankers + J-10 as far as phased arrays and in-service numbers are concerned?
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by xena View Post
    I am crazy? Is my monitor calibration wrong? The H6 is light grey
    Semantics.

    There are many shades of grey military aircraft out there. And these greys are quite common. It makes more categorical sense to call the H6 white because it is way more distinctly light than typical light grey aircraft. Plus language is the most effective as it gets simpler and more efficient. So rather than say light-grey it is faster to say or type white.

    So yeah. I suppose it is technically a very light grey. Take a bow. And there has to be a point where a certain shade brings a color from grey to white. But I am going to keep calling it white because it makes the most sense to call it white. And if your kids soccer ball rolled underneath a parked H6, and your kid asked you where his ball went, you'd probably say, under the *white* jet over there.

    Last edited by KGB; 10th March 2017 at 04:45.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Can someone refresh my memory, what is the status of Chinese Flankers + J-10 as far as phased arrays and in-service numbers are concerned?
    J-16 (AESA) - 20?
    J-10B - (PESA, will be upgraded to the 10C AESA) - ???
    J-10C - (AESA) - 50?

    Not sure about the actual numbers. Maybe 20+ J-16, 100+ J-10B/10C (maybe closing in on 150). Again, I am not sure about the numbers. Best if you check with Deino.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Artwork dated December 2010.

    Are you really basing your belief that you think J-20 is coloured dark green based off artwork made of J-20 back when we didn't even have clear pictures of it? Or is this some kind of roundabout way of saying that Tom Cooper's initial J-20 art had an incorrect colour?

    More importantly, why is Tom Cooper's art from December 2010 even relevant considering all the clear pictures we've had of the various J-20 prototypes and LRIP aircraft over the past 6+ years. Does Tom Cooper's art of J-20 made when we had no clear pictures of it, take precedence over every other picture we've had of it?
    It was the 2010 prototype #2001 that has been rumored to be green. So the part about 2010 fits.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    you better tell your boss, Tom, his artwork used the wrong color, unless you think this is not dark green


    H6 bomber is a tricky one, i would say it is either a dirty white or a very very light grey
    Cool. I picked the same H6 photo before I knew that you posted this one.

    I'll try and help you out on the green J 20. Just a couple weeks ago, I seen some clear cut evidence of the green one but I havn't been able to locate it yet.

    Here is a plastic model kit J 20. Color description: dark green
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trumpeter-m.../dp/B01344H7YU

    This pic, if you focus on the vert stabs, you can see that its green

    Last edited by KGB; 10th March 2017 at 05:00.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Note, they only say it is in service they do not say what degree of service (IOC etc), which obviously they do not ever release to us.

    I imagine J-20 at this stage has entered service in the sense that the air force is using them in the IOT&E stage.
    Yes. But it is somewhat noteworthy. If there was any risk at this level that the plane would be a failure, that won't have happened yet.

    @KGB: I can only invite you to stop the vodka for its known detrimental effect on your eyesight (color blind).
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 10th March 2017 at 04:57.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Artwork dated December 2010.
    durr, of course it is dated dec 2010.
    the first J-20 prototype was the dark green one. naturally all the photos of the dark green j-20 will be late 2010-2011


  10. #610
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    Name:  J-20 2001 vs 2101.2.jpg
Views: 516
Size:  64.0 KB

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    durr, of course it is dated dec 2010.
    the first J-20 prototype was the dark green one. naturally all the photos of the dark green j-20 will be late 2010-2011

    If that image really looks dark green to you I think it may be of interest for you to consult an optometrist or an ophthalmologist.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    Yes. But it is somewhat noteworthy. If there was any risk at this level that the plane would be a failure, that won't have happened yet.
    I suppose. But tbh we would've known ages ago if it was a failure not to mention recent developments over the last year that have been more indicative.
    A quick verbal statement on CCTV about J-20 "entering service" is not that significant in that regard given the accumulation of other events in J-20's development else over the last few years.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    Name:  J-20 2001 vs 2101.2.jpg
Views: 516
Size:  64.0 KB
    what color is this?


  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    If that image really looks dark green to you I think it may be of interest for you to consult an optometrist or an ophthalmologist.
    Its not easy to see but its green. It is not us that need to get our eyes checked. Its you.

    Plus I posted the model J 20 kit on Amazon that is listed as dark green
    Last edited by KGB; 10th March 2017 at 05:08.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    what color is this?

    Does it matter what colour the art is? I could paint one which is orange, but that doesn't mean the real plane was orange.

    Doesn't it bother you that the most convincing pictures you have for your position are drawings/art rather than photos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    Its green. It is not us that need to get our eyes checked. Its you.

    Plus I posted the model J 20 kit on Amazon that is listed as dark green
    This is such a confusing strand of discussion. Whatever. It's green. It's orange. It's purple. Whatever.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Does it matter what colour the art is? I could paint one which is orange, but that doesn't mean the real plane was orange.

    Doesn't it bother you that the most convincing pictures you have for your position are drawings/art rather than photos?
    1. it matters what color the art is because it means other people acknowledge it is dark green too
    2. real photos were posted above you, but if you can't see that, then i'm not surprised you can't see the actual color either. don't blame us because you're one of those guys who sees the dress as white and gold when everyone is telling you it is blue

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    If that image really looks dark green to you I think it may be of interest for you to consult an optometrist or an ophthalmologist.
    and note that the magazine and model drawings based on the early prototype also show dark green, no matter how hard you try to spin it.
    see a doctor please.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    and note that the magazine and model drawings based on the early prototype also show dark green, no matter how hard you try to spin it.
    see a doctor please.
    And who cares about what colour magazine and model drawings were?
    Is the question what colour the magazine and model drawings were, or what the colour of the actual plane was? I thought the issue was the latter, rather than the former. If we are debating over what a few magazine and model drawings initially thought the colour was -- then yes, clearly they incorrectly displayed and listed it as green.

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    And who cares about what colour magazine and model drawings were?
    Is the question what colour the magazine and model drawings were, or what the colour of the actual plane was? I thought the issue was the latter, rather than the former. If we are debating over what a few magazine and model drawings initially thought the colour was -- then yes, clearly they incorrectly displayed and listed it as green.
    nobody cared, until I mentioned it casually to KGB
    then suddenly some one's panties got tied up in a knot. for some reason the color dark green highly offends them

    2001 is clearly dark green, the only reason it's called into question is because there's no clear day time shot of it due to China's eternal pollution

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    1. it matters what color the art is because it means other people acknowledge it is dark green too
    2. real photos were posted above you, but if you can't see that, then i'm not surprised you can't see the actual color either. don't blame us because you're one of those guys who sees the dress as white and gold when everyone is telling you it is blue
    1: drawings based on initial poor quality pictures
    2: if these look green to you, then screw it, clearly it's orange








  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    nobody cared, until I mentioned it casually to KGB
    then suddenly some one's panties got tied up in a knot. for some reason the color dark green highly offends them

    2001 is clearly dark green, the only reason it's called into question is because there's no clear day time shot of it due to China's eternal pollution
    Okay man, whatever. Green, orange, red. Call it whatever colour you want.

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    Okay man, whatever. Green, orange, red. Call it whatever colour you want.
    The above pics are dated what ? and it is flying isn't it.. (i know its 2001) There is another pic that I seen just the other day that was awfully green. Still havn't found it

  23. #623
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    since some people are obviously color blind, hopefully they are not illiterate either.

    from Hui-Tong
    The J-20 (K/JJ20?) #2001 technology demonstrator made its maiden flight on January 11, 2011 over the city of Chengdu, wearing a distinctive dark green color scheme and powered by two AL-31F turbofan engines.
    http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/

    from Live leak
    The J-20 #2001 prototype was photographed when it was preparing for high-speed taxi trial at the CAC airfield in late December 2010, wearing a distinctive dark green color scheme
    Read more at https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b5d_...LOozd9Aqsga.99
    old chat from sino defense
    I will repeat myself (as I enjoy nagging ) that we probably will not see J-20 in yellow primer on the tarmac, ever.
    We have seen two color schemes of J-20, 2001 and 2002 in dark green, 2011 and onwards in lighter grayish green. We have seen all other prototypes of J-10 and J-11 in yellow primer but never J-20, why?

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    you better tell your boss, Tom, his artwork used the wrong color, unless you think this is not dark green


    H6 bomber is a tricky one, i would say it is either a dirty white or a very very light grey


    You take a first rough sketch of the J-20 from 2011 as final testimony that the J-20 is green ?!!! Come on ! Just look at his latest drawings at ACIC and by the way, why do You think he's my boss.

    Even more on the H-6, their tail tip is white and You can clearly see the difference to the rest of the body, which is grey.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    A quick verbal statement on CCTV about J-20 "entering service" is not that significant in that regard given the accumulation of other events in J-20's development else over the last few years.
    I don't have the SA on this subject you might have. You're probably right.

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzo View Post
    This is such a confusing strand of discussion. Whatever. It's green. It's orange. It's purple. Whatever.
    Ignore list is made for situations like this.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Ignore list is made for situations like this.
    Too true. But sometimes my morbid curiosity gets the better of me. My own fault, in this case.

  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    I don't have the SA on this subject you might have. You're probably right.
    Fair enough.

    If I had to point out one big public event involving J-20 over the last year that says something about the air force's confidence in it, it would be the appearance of two J-20s at Zhuhai Air Show last year.

    It is quite unprecedented for such a new and frontline combat aircraft to make such a high profile public appearance so early before it had yet to even enter any sort of service that that stage. For J-10, it only made its first appearance at Zhuhai in 2008, which was five years after it entered service as part of "IOT&E" in 2003, whereas for J-20 it made its first appearance at Zhuhai even before it entered service as part of its "IOT&E".

    Of course part of that is probably greater willingness to be open/transparent on behalf of the military as well compared to before.

  29. #629
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    in the old thread when the j-20 was first unveiled.. dark green was mentioned

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/archi.../t-105427.html

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    since some people are obviously color blind, hopefully they are not illiterate either.

    from Hui-Tong


    http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/

    from Live leak


    old chat from sino defense
    It's really funny that You still prefer to repost older reports regardless how dated and probably wrong they are instead of looking and thinking on Your own.

    IMO this whole stupid - or at least completely sense-less - discussion is more on semantics and individual perception but on facts. The J-20's colour esp. on the 2001 & 2002 demonstrators is indeed unique and depending the image You pick up it is indeed a bit greenish (maybe olive), dark grey, charcoal or whatever. But again it is more a matter of light than that the colour is true green like grass ! :-)

    The H-6 however is at least IMO clearly light-grey with white tail-tips.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

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