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Thread: BREXIT - Merged thread.

  1. #2341
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    Nope and still not changed my views, sooner we are out the better, because until we are out we will not be able to forge ahead with our own destiny. As for all the crap about paying to 2020, I just wish someone would have the balls to call their bluff.

  2. #2342
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    I assume all these claims and counter claims are simply for media and public consumption. I don't doubt a great deal of serious negotiation is being conducted well out of public view.

  3. #2343
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    And on what do you base this?, are you involved or on the inside?, or is this just another counter-counter claim?

    However, for the sake of all of us, I really hope that some serious negotiation is underway, but given a weak government, heavily influenced by such parties as the DUP and the Murdoch empire, and weak key figures involved, maybe I'm expecting too much?

  4. #2344
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    AK

    Do you own a 'red herring' factory ? You're probably subsidised by the EU. Your production lines are permanently in top gear ! As a citizen, if I'm to be mis-governed, it is not just better, but essential, that the mis-government springs from the actions of a GB government not an undemocratic, autocratic cabal of foreign powers domiciled in some third rate EU capital.

    I don't wish to imput to you any unworthy motives but, are you quite sure that, for example, and hearkening back to the Cold War, you would not have identified with; "Better Red than dead".

  5. #2345
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    Paul,

    I admire your faith in our politicians.

    I have none. The current Tory party is an utter shambles. The current Labour party is an utter shambles. The others are utterly irrelevant. We have few diplomats with the nouse to negotiate this. Everything we hear from the other side, which is leaking like a sieve, is wholly negative. Sure, I might be more tuned in to that, but I'm starting to see a shift in perception.

  6. #2346
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    Totally agree, you have two parties trying to outdo each other, we are coming out end of, and the idea that the Conservatives are weak should not come into it, the other parties should be supporting them to get the best outcome possible, all this in house bickering is simply about scoring points off each other and nowt to do with what is best for the country... as for the Lib dems and the SNP in denial.... they need to wake up and smell the coffee.
    This is the single most important thing the UK had had to navigate through in decades, and I still cannot believe they are willing to screw it all up simply to make thier hyped up pompus arrogant asses look and feel good.

  7. #2347
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    Rest assured JG that my allegiances are not in that direction and I'm not your red under the bed, far from it. I'm simply looking for strong (and stable?! - the Irony) leadership, that is not under any influence of political pacts or business or media "favours" and thus works for the benefit of the nation as a whole, and it's future. I'm not seeing it here at a crucial time.

    TonyT, that, I'm afraid, is the democracy we live in, for good or bad, and any moves to tell people they're wrong is a step in the wrong direction. Sadly deny all you wish, they are weak, and weaker than before that fumbled election which was a foolhardy attempt to try and gain more strength.
    Last edited by Agent K; 10th August 2017 at 13:24.

  8. #2348
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    Bruce et al

    I'm probably being naive but most of the negotiation of this nature is left to civil servants on both sides. The combination of an EU bureaucracy and a hardened core of remainers both unable to accept the democratic process combined with a weak, vascillating Government has produced a toxic mix which the media and every Brexit illwisher is lapping up, digesting and spitting out with added venom.

    All of which is unedifying to say the least.

  9. #2349
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    If the scientist that discovered graphene thinks it's time to leave the country suggest its time for people to sit up and think.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ene-innovation

  10. #2350
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    With a chunk of its income gone the EU will be less able to splash its largesse around particularly as its administrative costs continue to spiral upwards.

    Mr Geim and his colleagues might seek their funding nearer to home.

  11. #2351
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    I wouldn't describe world beating scientific and medical research as largesse. Rather a strange point of view.

  12. #2352
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    Ak

    Are you inferring that this research will slow down or, entirely stop? Why do you think Mr Geim came to GB in the first place ? He could have gone anywhere.
    Last edited by John Green; 13th August 2017 at 19:13.

  13. #2353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent K View Post
    I wouldn't describe world beating scientific and medical research as largesse. Rather a strange point of view.
    Not at all. The EU receives billions from a minority of its membership and redistributes this largesse to the entire membership in a multiplicity of ways.

  14. #2354
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    John, research in the UK will slow down. Research does not happen until funding is in place. Currently a lot of that funding comes from Europe. That was the situation when Mr. Geim came to the UK. It will not be the situation after UK exit.
    Last edited by Beermat; 13th August 2017 at 20:19.

  15. #2355
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    By the way I am sitting outside a French farmhouse with a view of the Pyrenees in tbe moonlight. The locals just think the English are a bit more stupid than they thought before.

  16. #2356
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    Originally posted by Beermat
    By the way I am sitting outside a French farmhouse with a view of the Pyrenees in tbe moonlight. The locals just think the English are a bit more stupid than they thought before.
    I would imagine the Locals formed that opinion after listening to you ad nauseum Beermat

  17. #2357
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    BM

    Yes maybe, but, independent !

    AK

    Research in GB ? They come here primarily because we speak English - at least some of us.

  18. #2358
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    Because we're English speaking, because there is funding, because there is an established and strong level of talent within business and the universities. But without funding then no amount of the other will count.

  19. #2359
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    Hook, Line and Sinker BAZV

  20. #2360
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    I have better things to talk about. But you might be surprised at the rather good reaction the oversized EU sticker on my van gets. French people tell me, unfairly perhaps, that leavers are stupid, I have nothing to add to that opinion, never mind repeat ad nauseum. Brexiters heads are getting buried deeper and deeper into the sand. A little bit of outside perspective only highlights this.

    My company, among lots of other things, writes software that helps researchers find funding. Without funding a researcher cannot work. He or she has to eat, live somewhere etc. There is indeed no magic money tree for any of this. There is currently quite a lot of the necessary money available in the UK and a significant proportion of it is from the EU. It has nothing to do with anyone speaking English, and everything to do with the quality of our institutions combining with the level of funding sources. Which we are about to reduce. Stupid? As I say, I have nothing to add when a local says that. Except that maybe plenty of smart people voted leave as well.

    It doesn't make leaving many such complex yet co-operative systems of mutual dependency and benefit for some vague notion of national self-determination any less apparently silly to foreign people. What can I say? Just reporting opinions.

    Not calling anyone stupid personally, so can you lay off the personals please?
    Last edited by Beermat; 15th August 2017 at 22:42.

  21. #2361
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    Nothing personal BM
    I am sure you are aware that many many french (and other countries within the EE Ewe) are deeply unhappy with the direction that the EU has taken.
    The EU are not going to change anything by pressure from an insignificent little Island like ours - therefore if we want change we have to leave.
    Please do not make the 'mistake' that 'leavers' hate europe - far from it - most leavers love europe and most of its citizens -'leavers' just hate 'The EU' (you know - that totally undemocratic waste of money).
    I am sure you can see the difference between hating the EU and hating Europe(eans)

  22. #2362
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    Yeah, true enough.
    Last edited by Beermat; 16th August 2017 at 12:29.

  23. #2363
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    Spot on bazv. And just to pick up on a point Beermat. This EU funding is heavily contributed by the UK, which will cease, depleting EU funds. Do all these researchers know that they will not be helped by the UK, from the cash no longer required for financing the EU?

  24. #2364
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    "quality of our institutions.."

    At one time, many years ago - maybe. The last figures published by the OECD showed that we were at the very bottom of the international educational league table.

    There would be little impediment to any anti Brexit Britisher who wishes to leave this miserable misbegotten yet independent island to go and live in the golden future which I'm sure most right thinking people believe is the EU.

    Off you go - all of you.

  25. #2365
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    I'll probably go via the Irish border, I will then be able to come and go as I please. Not quite the Fortress UK, that keeps Johnny foreigner out, that I fear the Brexit crowd intended.....
    Last edited by Agent K; 16th August 2017 at 15:32.

  26. #2366
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    John, you clearly know nothing about our research-centred HEI's. They are international institutions that provide research positions to people largely regardless of the nation in which they recieved their education up to that point. So your tedious repetition of your untruth that we are at the bottom of an OECD education table is irrelevant. And you and I and anyone else who cared about this silly claim when you first made it know that we are only bottom of any table if you put the bar for inclusion in the table just below the UK score.

    Paul, they do. The high level of funding is provided through specific programmes which divide into schemes and calls. These are unweildy and complex and a system that just about works to get the money to the right places and people has been arrived at only recently. It can not be re-invented instantly to channel treasury money the same way, even if the will was there to do so.
    Last edited by Beermat; 16th August 2017 at 12:31.

  27. #2367
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    Spot on bazv. And just to pick up on a point Beermat. This EU funding is heavily contributed by the UK, which will cease, depleting EU funds. Do all these researchers know that they will not be helped by the UK, from the cash no longer required for financing the EU?
    The problem I see is not the funding in the UK for research... as the UK puts in more than it recieves out of Europe, it is the Governments commitment to continue that funding, because as sure a black is black they will try to cut it and divert it elsewhere.

    I'll probably go via the Irish border
    Thats a pipe dream and will never happen, it simply cannot as you then have no exit from the freedom of movement across borders, they know it, we know it, but everyone is in denial.
    Last edited by TonyT; 16th August 2017 at 12:15.

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  29. #2369
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    Perfect! Some of my best friends are on the other side and many others are citizens of member states of the EU. And nothing stands in the way of enjoying life together.

    EU is an anathema Europe is fun!

  30. #2370
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    TonyT - 'everyone is in denial' is a fair summary.

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