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Thread: BREXIT - Merged thread.

  1. #121
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    Yes, Johnnnie,
    Liam Fox was state educated

  2. #122
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    John

    64% of fewer than a third turnout is surely not very impressive, is it??

    Trek

    I trust you are as wary of HMG "facts" as you are of the opposition's "facts". In my experience "facts" when used in political conflict are always highly selective. I have used the terms HMG and opposition as there is at least no longer any pretence that the referendum is anything other than the Government versus the Leave group. There is no point in the taxpayer funding Government propaganda as well as a Leave campaign's propaganda. Wasteful duplication.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  3. #123
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    No Charrlyboy,
    I am much more wary of brexist 'facts' as they can be so easily disproved whilst at least some of the HMG 'facts' are able to be checked independently.

    And let's face it, when presented with information by people such as IDS, Gove, Liam Fox and Nige and the tousle-haired nitwit, all of whom have track records in obfuscation and doling out dodgy 'facts' about things that I have personal knowledge of, it all boils down to whom do you trust the most....... I can't believe I am saying this but I actually trust Call me Dave and Gideon more on this specific issue.
    Last edited by trekbuster; 7th April 2016 at 13:23.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Alan~ View Post
    Historically it's the younger generation who are less likely to vote.
    I suspect this is what it will come down to in the end. While a slight majority will side with remain, voter turnout will gift a victory for Brexit. Many young won't have registered to vote, and many others will either be watching Glastonbury or be at it, doing general young person things or revising for their exams. And I believe older voters will turn out in unprecedented numbers.

    But it will be a hollow victory.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekbuster View Post
    Yes, Johnnnie,
    Liam Fox was state educated
    Well, there's your answer.

    Johnny G

  6. #126
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    Charlie,

    Don't worry about the qualification, 64% is a whole heap better than anything less !

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekbuster View Post
    No Charrlyboy,
    I am much more wary of brexist 'facts' as they can be so easily disproved whilst at least some of the HMG 'facts' are able to be checked independently.

    And let's face it, when presented with information by people such as IDS, Gove, Liam Fox and Nige and the tousle-haired nitwit, all of whom have track records in obfuscation and doling out dodgy 'facts' about things that I have personal knowledge of, it all boils down to whom do you trust the most....... I can't believe I am saying this but I actually trust Call me Dave and Gideon more on this specific issue.
    Most politicians have 'track records in obfuscation and doling out dodgy facts' - that's a fact ! It just so happens that on this occasion, as an INNER rather than an OUTER, what Oily Dave is saying flavoured by obfuscation and dodgy facts and backed up by some of his lickspittles, happens to suit your particular stance.

    Ask yourself this question: Looking at Oily Dave, would I buy a used car from this person ?
    Last edited by John Green; 7th April 2016 at 14:34.

  8. #128
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    [QUOTE=trekbuster;2305291.... I can't believe I am saying this but I actually trust Call me Dave and Gideon more on this specific issue.[/QUOTE]

    Nor can I!!!
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  9. #129
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    Most politicians have 'track records in obfuscation and doling out dodgy facts' - that's a fact ! It just so happens that on this occasion, as an INNER rather than an OUTER, what Oily Dave is saying flavoured by obfuscation and dodgy facts and backed up by some of his lickspittles, happens to suit your particular stance.
    And how is this different to your own probrexist stance if you reverse the Inner and Nitwits/outers?

  10. #130
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    I would've thought that was obvious.

  11. #131
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    Having read the key "facts" in the Government's brochure it is a mixture of actual facts, contentious and arguable "facts" and a series of assumptions based on the forgoing. All those assumptions being highly debatable, since no one KNOWS what will happen if and when we leave. So as far as giving the people the facts they are seeking those glossy pages are a very long way from meeting those demands.

    All of which comes as no surprise whatsoever.

  12. #132
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    No chage there then
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  13. #133
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    You're right ! That much was obvious when Oily Dave promised that we would be 'safe and secure' in the embrace of Mother EU. Yeah right ! How could he guarantee that, especially after the lethal fireworks in London, Madrid, Bombay, Paris, Brussels, not counting 9/11 ?

    Oily, was somewhat astutely trading on the British public's loss of their famed stiff upper lip, their mental toughness and refusal thru' out their history to submit to mental or physical coercion.

    Clever.

  14. #134
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    I have reflected further on the Government's publication of the EU propaganda sheet and the sheer hyprocrisy of their actions, Similarities can be drawn with the Wilson document published prior to the 1975 referendum which contained soothing blandishments which as we came to understand were neither ever likely to have been realised nor were. The Governnmnt must take us all for fools but this time we are much more perceptively on our guard.

    If the Leave vote does win the day I cannot see how Cameron and his Government can possibly stay in office, so much store have they set in Remain.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehunt View Post
    Having read the key "facts" in the Government's brochure it is a mixture of actual facts, contentious and arguable "facts" and a series of assumptions based on the forgoing. All those assumptions being highly debatable, since no one KNOWS what will happen if and when we leave. So as far as giving the people the facts they are seeking those glossy pages are a very long way from meeting those demands.
    Exactly like the SNP's 'white paper' then? There is one of those weighty tomes in our office still, serving as a paper weight...

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    A typical example is the EU obsession with man made global warming.
    Climate instability. 'Global warming' is a label used by people who do not agree/are not convinced/publicly argue against with the phenomenon.

    In the interests of balance; 'Climate change denier' is equally as poisonous and value-laden


    For myself, I will be voting to leave

    There have been some advantages to belonging to the EU. (It may be a national past time to scoff at health and safety gone mad but the UK H+S record did used to be horrific; flipping again though I do like the NZ-style 'Danger of Dith' signs discreetly put up next to items which in the UK would be fenced off and painted yellow)

    UK central government does not like spending outside of Metropolitan London and/or vote winning areas, and paradoxically I can see less UK tax money spent outside of the chose areas if it is left to our government


    But:

    I like decentralised government

    Removing the convenient 'a bigger parliament made me do it' excuse might actually force some accountability

    Many* of the (small and petty) laws we rage at have actually been tacked onto the end of euro-bills as they pass across UK government servant desks. Remove the euro-bills remove that stealth legislation



    *Citation needed, I am sure
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  17. #137
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    I saw this posted elsewhere

    When you get your Tory initiated, printed in Germany "stay in the E.U." Information leaflet that has
    cost us, the tax payers, £9,300,000 please put it in an envelope and send it to the address below.
    Do not send it to Downing Street without a stamp because that will cost the taxpayer another
    £2.00 each for Downing Street to receive it. Send it to the address below and it'll cost Cameron
    and his chums at least £0.38p for each one.

    (Yes I know, it's not only Tories who wish to stay in Europe)

    Joanna George
    FREEPOST RSBB-XRZT-ZTXE
    The Conservative Party Foundation
    30 Millbank
    London
    SW1P 4DP
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  18. #138
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    Thanks, Alan. Perfect timing as I was close to putting it the letter box without postage!!
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  19. #139
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    Haven't had ours yet, I feel a bit left out
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  20. #140
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    Ah - I reckon they've got your number!!
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  21. #141
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    Mine is winging its way !

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Removing the convenient 'a bigger parliament made me do it' excuse might actually force some accountability
    Indeed; I see the prospect of the UK leaving the EU as a losing proposition for both parties, but there are upsides.

    Firstly, it seems clear that the English people won't throw off their shackles and awake to the crimes being perpetrated against them by eminently domestic forces (namely the Tories and the monied interests they represent) until they have nobody else to blame for their woes. In the meantime, the EU is just too good a punching bag.

    And secondly, by dealing a considerable blow to an already rickety and deeply flawed insitution, namely the EU, it is at least one more step along the path - if not forwards along the path -- to a truly just transnational institution, i.e. one that embodies radical democratic principles and doesn't eat its own as happened with Greece. If the EU has to collapse and a lot of water pass under the bridge before that just institution can come to pass, so be it. I'm more of a reform-mined, work-within-the-system type myself, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.
    Last edited by Rii; 13th April 2016 at 06:16.
    Brief and powerless is Man's life; on him and all his race the slow sure doom falls pitiless and dark.

  23. #143
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    What 'shackles' and 'woes' would they be - exactly ?

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    Mine is winging its way !
    Just got mine, it will also be on its way back very shortly. With some added weight
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  25. #145
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    Just received an e-mail from the Petitions somebody or other, which says that as a consequence of the number of signatures to a protest about the Govt's EU Referendum propaganda leaflet, a debate before Parliament will be held on the 9th May, next.

    Better late than never.

  26. #146
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    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wrong Forum!

  27. #147
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    What a surprise...

    Not!

    Now French voters call for FREXIT after Germany face demands for EU referendum.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KCP...&nohtml5=False
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wrong Forum!

  28. #148
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    Not to mention the Dutch and Czecs.
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  29. #149
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    JG - " Trekkie,

    Very obviously the product of State school 'education' !"


    As was I. What exactly was your point? By the way, one doesn't leave a space before punctuation. Additionally, 'state' in the context of 'state school' does not require a capital.
    Last edited by Beermat; 14th April 2016 at 13:03.
    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
    It's all good. Probably.

  30. #150
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    My prediction...for what it's worth...not much:

    No one is going to exit anything.
    People today are too wrapped up in security (the non-military type) ... and for people born into the modern world of social welfare (what some might call the "nanny state" and a "health & safety above all else" mindset), that means more government.
    The more layers of bureaucracy, the more regulations, the more secure they feel. Most won't notice any loss of freedoms or sovereignty...if they do they'll gladly exchange that for a cheque every month.

    People may complain a lot, talk a good game on the internet or at the pub, but at the end of the day few will be brave enough to vote against the status quo.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 14th April 2016 at 14:15.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

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