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Thread: BREXIT - Merged thread.

  1. #2041
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    Re:#2039

    The fact that yet again you have not answered the question, "is that your view", might make some draw their own conclusions John. I must at this point admit that I had also drawn a similar inference to Wings43 regarding your post #2036. I would imagine that would not be a surprise to you!

    If you don't want some people to make assumptions you sometimes have to be less subtle, unfortunate but true
    Last edited by trekbuster; 5th March 2017 at 16:01.

  2. #2042
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    Trekkie,

    I'm assuming that you really do not want to be mentioned in the same sentence alongside Wings 43.

    Assumptions ? I'm quite happy for people to make assumptions about me. I feel comforted and re-assured that you think that I am, of all people, in anyway 'subtle' !

  3. #2043
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    Gina Miller at it again

    Seems she still doesn't get it.

    Now she says she will take the Government to court if we leave the EU on WT terms.



    Cheers

    Paul
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

  4. #2044
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    Publicity is perhaps her opiate.

  5. #2045
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    The D.Tel. reports to-day that 'Herr Adolf' Juncker, the president of the European Commission, said that he intends to make conditions for GB's Brexit so harsh that any other country contemplating EU exit will be fearful of a like fate.


    Charming chappie.

  6. #2046
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    He has little choice John. Oh, hang on it comes from the Telegraph - no hint of bias whatsoever then..

  7. #2047
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    In that case this miserable and provocative oaf should say nothing. He is a master of the intemperate sound bite. He brings no credit to his office. With any luck, this bile will come back to haunt him.

  8. #2048
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    I seem to remember that there were those on here who said that the "BBC Brexit Bias" was in our imagination ?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ne-bbc-warned/
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  9. #2049
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    Erm, that's from 70 MP's out of more than 600.

    Elsewhere I read that it was precisely the opposite. During the referendum campaign, 95% of economists suggested that Brexit would be bad. But in an effort to remain as impartial as they could, the BBC gave 50% airtime to the 5% and 50% airtime to the 95%. Somewhat skewed?

    Similarly, Mhairi Black, SNP MP complained that there were more MP's in London alone than the entire of Scotland, despite the population of London being larger than that of Scotland, AND Scotland having its own Parliament. You cant have it all ways.

  10. #2050
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    An insignificant number. 70 MP's ? They count for nothing. We should leave these matters to the Guardian - they'll sort it out !

  11. #2051
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    Tonight I shall be tippling some tipple that's for sure. Never thought that I'd live to see the day. Symbolic I know, but to-day we get our P45 from the EU and they get ? Our letter of resignation. An opportunity for joyous celebration if ever there was one.

    For us, the EU is toast and when the euro finally bites the dust we'll all be drinking to a 'bonfire of the EU vanities'.

  12. #2052
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    Bottoms up John.

    Now let's see what happens.

  13. #2053
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post
    For us, the EU is toast and when the euro finally bites the dust we'll all be drinking to a 'bonfire of the EU vanities'.
    While I wish the Euro didn't exist, and want it to come to an end, I will not be celebrating when it does. The failing European union represents a failure of a metropolitan, neoliberal elite, to listen to its own people, all the while flooding their own halls with corporate lobbyists (over 30,000 of them now). But more importantly, when the Euro fails, it will bring misery and ruin to millions of our fellow Europeans. Rather than jumping up and down on the Euro bonfire, we should, and we will offer the hand of friendship.

    It's actually the European union I feel sorry for in these negotiations. The British government might not have as much weight behind them, but at least they are *relatively* united. Imagine what will happen when 27 countries, who all want very different things out of Brexit, try and get together to present a united front. It is also conceivable that the MEP's and the Members of the Council of eachcountry will want very different things from each other, especially with some of the Eastern European countries.

  14. #2054
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_jza80 View Post
    ... when the Euro fails, it will bring misery and ruin to millions of our fellow Europeans. Rather than jumping up and down on the Euro bonfire, we should, and we will offer the hand of friendship.
    We won't be in a position to offer very much at all. If / When the Euro goes down we will be facing very hard times too.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  15. #2055
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    Out of the welter of dismay, consternation and hardship should come a degree at least of hardnosed realism. For the last forty years, the EU member states have been living a monumental deception. If nothing else, it should ram home to those of us who it affects, the message of political duplicity and chicanery and the wreckage it brings.

    It was Mikhail Gorbachev former president of the now defunct USSR, who commented along the lines of: "I can't understand why the Western democracies are so intent on re-creating the USSR" referring of course to the EU.

  16. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggy C View Post
    We won't be in a position to offer very much at all. If / When the Euro goes down we will be facing very hard times too.

    Moggy
    True, but we will be in a stronger position than those in the euro zone.

    I'm not necessarily convinced about Mays rhetoric about 'global Britain', but we should definitely use this opportunity to get so many of our eggs out of the euro basket, and push as hard as we can for trade with the emerging markets. It is clear that Europes prosperity is going to decline, with no end in sight.

  17. #2057
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    Today is the turn of the EU, who respond to the letter handed to them on Wednesday.

    We cannot hold bilateral talks with member states, and they will decide when we have done enough to move on to the next step. They will be controlling the process 100 per cent.

    Surprised?

  18. #2058
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    Name:  UK.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  199.7 KB

    UKIP are celebrating............. hanging the union flag upside down and between 2 dustbins........ says it all really........... although some here would have you believe they will score sweeping victories at the next election....

  19. #2059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    They will be controlling the process 100 per cent.
    Who?

    The delegation? the commission? the council? the parliament? national governments?

    Their poker face is a united front, but behind the scenes there is going to be an incredible amount of squabbling going on about what each of these groups want out of the negotiations, and the 30,000 corporate lobbyists who run the show are going to be at loggerheads with the federalists about access to an extremely important market. As Angela Merkel and Viktor Oban have frequently shown, any EU agreements and treaties can simply be ignored by member states when it suits them, and the EU is fairly powerless to stop them.

  20. #2060
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    Please explain why that is upside down?

  21. #2061
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_jza80 View Post
    Please explain why that is upside down?
    because....... the white seam that goes next to the pole is on the right hand side and the red cross stripe should touch the pole (which here is at the bottom) hence it's upside down! I'd never have displayed it like that in my cub scout/ATC days, it would be the other way up!

  22. #2062
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    If that 'white seam' was in fact supposed to go on a pole, you would be correct. But look at the top of the 'seam'. It is clearly just a one sized flag, and the bottom 3/4 of that edge has folded over exposing the white backing which superficially resembles a seam. There are fixings on all 4 corners, showing this was never meant to be mounted on a flag pole.

    If you look closely, you can even see where the print on the folded over section doesn't align with the rest.

  23. #2063
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_jza80 View Post
    Who?

    The delegation? the commission? the council? the parliament? national governments?

    Their poker face is a united front, but behind the scenes there is going to be an incredible amount of squabbling going on about what each of these groups want out of the negotiations, and the 30,000 corporate lobbyists who run the show are going to be at loggerheads with the federalists about access to an extremely important market. As Angela Merkel and Viktor Oban have frequently shown, any EU agreements and treaties can simply be ignored by member states when it suits them, and the EU is fairly powerless to stop them.
    Lets wait and see - clearly Tusk's proposals are, at present, just that. He also stated that he wouldn't be looking for punitive sanctions against the UK.

    I suspect those doing the negotiations will be a fairly small number of people, working on behalf of all of the remaining member countries. I suggest it would be in all of their interests not to be fighting against one another, and to show a united front.

  24. #2064
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    It would undoubtedly be in their interest but in the real world, the EU is comprised of 27 very different countries, and even within those countries, there will be various forces vying for influence on these negotiations.

    But as you said, let's wait and see. These are historic events without precedent, and with various external influencing factors in the next few months (various European elections), who knows what the state of play will be in 2 years.

  25. #2065
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    Mrs May has to very emphatically, let it be known that she has an alternative, a plan B, should the path of the 'negotiations' become a shade too rocky, and that she will not hesitate to use it.

    That, and that alone, is the key to a successful outcome for GB.

  26. #2066
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    If you are referring to the "no deal" option John, I fear that you are a little naive and behind the times. There was no mention of it in her infamous letter and apparently the UK has acknowledged it isn't really an option available to the Govt. But of course if your only sources are the Torygraph and the Fail...

  27. #2067
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green View Post

    That, and that alone, is the key to a successful outcome for GB.
    This is precisely what is so wrong.

    We should not be looking for 'a successful outcome for GB'. We should be looking for the best outcome for the EU and and for the UK.

    And it will be a Brucie-bonus if the Scots stomp off afterwards.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  28. #2068
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    D. Cameron's 'negotiations' with the EU were a failure because he was seen by the opposition to 'negotiate' from weakness rather than strength. He was seen to lack a willingness to confront, Mrs. May has to avoid that particular trap.

    Her stance from the beginning, has to let it be known, in whatever style of language she chooses, that the bottom line is for GB simply to leave the arena once it becomes clear that the EU will not budge from their intransigence. Just as soon as she has been tested and shown not to waver, then the pressures applied by EU industrialists, bankers and the military will become intolerable to the EU negotiators who will then, reluctantly, present a more amenable and conciliatory attitude. How far they will go to accommodate GB is anyone's guess. The difference will be between hard headed EU economics and political ideology. One or the other will exert greater influence.

    "best outcome for the EU" ? Who cares apart from the greasy liberals. The escalating disaster facing the EU is entirely of its own making and not unconnected with political hubris.

  29. #2069
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    That may be your hope John, but the approach you suggest is not what is likely to happen. The UK is in a weaker bargaining position than you suggest. You might not like it, I might not like it for different reasons but the outcome is in the deep unknown at the moment
    Last edited by trekbuster; 1st April 2017 at 11:32.

  30. #2070
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    Yes, I think that you are correct, it is very uncertain. I do tho' believe that my summary isn't far from what will happen. My belief is that EU 'political ideology' will have the upper hand.

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