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Thread: Shoreham Investigation Update

  1. #91
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    The police must have known that they had little hope of obtaining any evidence from the AAIB and no doubt behind the scenes enquiries took place to ascertain if it was possible to release anything before the application was made. It is, of course, in the public interest to make the application anyway for justice to be seen to be done if nothing else.This application does not necessarily mean that other enquiries have not already been made. At the end of the day it will all come down to what can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt in a court of law without the help of the AAIB.
    I had just got round to seeing the glass as half full instead of half empty, when some sod came and drank it......

  2. #92
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    Ok, so I'll post it. Updated CAA actions on AAIB initial findings. Links to both Maintenance aspects and airshow management aspects from BADAs website:

    http://www.bada-uk.com/2017/01/airsh...-2015-issue-2/

    FB

  3. #93
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    FB,

    Thanks for the link.

    I saw a piece on South Today this lunchtime about the AAIB recommendations to the CAA, but it didn't mention what exactly what they were.

    Cheers

    Paul
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

  4. #94
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    Dec 2011
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    Also noted recently; the AAIB lists their report as in 'Consultation', although I'm not sure if this is a recent change of status

    Consultation stage - when an investigation is largely complete and a confidential draft report has been sent out for consultation under Regulation 12(1) and EU Regulation 996/2010 Article 16. The consultation process includes the time taken to consider representations and amend the draft report prior to publication.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...investigations
    My Lord, I have a cunning plan...

  5. #95
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    It may be that this is a problem which will, regrettably , solve itself.

    The recommendations ( not unexpected) to increase scrutiny of maintenance schedules, the expanded responsibility of organisers to conduct risk-assessments of the display 'footprint' including off-airfield , and all the other hurdles to be jumped could conceivably combine to sap the enthusiasm of operators and display organisers, such that the already wounded UK Jet 'scene' dwindles to a standstill. It may all just become too damn difficult.

    What have we got ?

    Sea Vixen ( very infrequent flyer)
    2 Grounded Canberras
    3-4 Gnats
    3-4 Meteors ( 2 with Martin Baker)
    Grounded Hunters ( apart from those on military trials)
    Vampire ( up for disposal )
    A number of Jet Provosts

    No more Sabre, T33's, Venoms, Vulcan


    We can only hope that there are still people with the financial reserves, and commitment to somehow keep them flying.

    It could well be that Norway and Sweden end up with a bigger historic jet fleet than the UK, with their Mig 15, Vampires, T33.s, Starfighter, Draken, Viggin and Lansen.

  6. #96
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    ITV News Meridian reported this evening that the AAIB will publish its full Report on the Shoreham Air Crash on March 3.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyskooter View Post
    ITV News Meridian reported this evening that the AAIB will publish its full Report on the Shoreham Air Crash on March 3.
    Confirmed on the AAIB website: -

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...-investigation

    Cheers

    Paul
    The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

  8. #98
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    Best avoid the TV and papers on Friday then.

  9. #99
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    I wonder if the press will make the CAA have even more of a clamp down , the scum and faily dail on their self important "campaigns ".

  10. #100
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    No doubt the media will be rolling out the plethora of "aviation experts" to comment
    Officially now a pensioner

  11. #101
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    And how many will re print, or digitally publish the gruesome crash images?

  12. #102
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    A work colleague, who is also a volunteer at Duxford, mentioned to me that the altimeter may not have been calibrated properly when it was removed from the aircraft previously. Is this credible and perhaps knowledge already? Or is it possibly
    unfortunate rumour?

  13. #103
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    Well it must be true if it`s come from a Duxford volunteer !!!!!!!!!
    Flying must be easy. If it was difficult, groundcrew would have to do it!

  14. #104
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    As the report is not yet published, lets not speculate on what may, or may not be in it. There has been a huge amount of rumour and gossip, including amongst those in the know. There are three more days to wait. Lets leave it until then please.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bump View Post
    Best avoid the TV and papers on Friday then.
    Why just Friday? For a enjoyable life with reduced levels of stress, anger, and anxiety, there is nothing to beat avoiding the TV and papers everyday.
    Work! You don't know what work is. When I was a boy...

  16. #106
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    Armchair AAIB brigade out already, leave it to the professionals

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    A work colleague, who is also a volunteer at Duxford, mentioned to me that the altimeter may not have been calibrated properly when it was removed from the aircraft previously. Is this credible and perhaps knowledge already? Or is it possibly
    unfortunate rumour?
    Straight from the horses mouth eh?! My friends dogs vets wives nephews mother is a volunteer at the local charity shop, she has an idea what happened.....

  18. #108
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    It's nice to see so many posters who think they are smart and sophisticated when they are being crass and vulgar.
    It was just a simple question..

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbiesmurf View Post
    It's nice to see so many posters who think they are smart and sophisticated when they are being crass and vulgar.
    It was just a simple question..
    100% agree with that

  20. #110
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    Having a go at volunteers at Duxford, or indeed in general is not really fair. They do their best and some are indeed highly knowledgeable about what they do. I worked in aviation maintenance for 47 years and there was always somebody who "knew" what happened with regards to an accident somewhere. Rumours were a near daily part of the job but there were indeed a few people over the years who did actually know what happened in certain events. Sad, true, and worrying to think they had information which could or could not have been helpful in preventing the accident in the first place

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by rutley View Post
    I worked in aviation maintenance for 47 years and there was always somebody who "knew" what happened with regards to an accident somewhere.
    Quite true. They are often also aware of issues which are not made public.
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by rutley View Post
    Having a go at volunteers at Duxford, or indeed in general is not really fair. They do their best and some are indeed highly knowledgeable about what they do. I worked in aviation maintenance for 47 years and there was always somebody who "knew" what happened with regards to an accident somewhere. Rumours were a near daily part of the job but there were indeed a few people over the years who did actually know what happened in certain events. Sad, true, and worrying to think they had information which could or could not have been helpful in preventing the accident in the first place
    To try a qualify a statement by linking it to Duxford does not validate it, it still is speculation at best. If, however, it is fact that has leaked from the AAIB and investigation then one shouldn't publicise this as coming from Duxford. That person has broken trust and confidence and you have by publicising it here.

    I am close to and know a good number of excellent volunteers at Duxford who spend thousands of their free time and hours each year helping the museum. That doesn't necessarily qualify them to interpret rumour/data/speculation and present it as fact.

  23. #113
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    In the past I spent a number of years on a forum that discussed aviation accidents.
    Contributions came from all sorts. LAME's, engineers, pilots, both military and commercial, FOF'ers, NTSB even. Of course a lot had no hands on experience in the aviation. We even had one gentleman who's expertise was making sausages.
    It was a boistrous site, however, everyone was free to ask even the most basic questions and would get a decent and honest answer. Speculation was seen purely as that, to be read and put forward as a possibilty, not fact. It would however not to be derided even when the report was released and proved certain thoughts wrong. I contributed gladly on that site as I knew that my thoughts would be taken with gravity and respect. I wouldn't do it here, not because I too am curious but because I don't agree with the nay-saying 'superior knowledged' persons who seem to enjoy pointing out that they are better..
    Which site was I on? That point is moot, because, well, it crashed too...

  24. #114
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    So its £18 to get into Duxford (£16-something minus donation, but everybody pays it, right?) for an adult, and they don't even pay their staff? Mon Dieu!

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    So its £18 to get into Duxford (£16-something minus donation, but everybody pays it, right?) for an adult, and they don't even pay their staff? Mon Dieu!
    Yes they do https://iwm.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mo...vacancy/4/adv/ but i suppose there are volunteers http://www.iwm.org.uk/connect/volunteers/iwm-duxford , i suppose some people who want to be involved and have time on their hands do enjoy it.

  26. #116
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    "So its £18 to get into Duxford (£16-something minus donation, but everybody pays it, right?) for an adult, and they don't even pay their staff? Mon Dieu! "

    What a stupid statement, of course there is a permanent team of management and staff who get paid. But there is also a lively volunteer contingent too, of people who want to give something (of their time and skills) rather than take. These include DAS (who own and manage the airliner fleet - including Concorde), Friends of Duxford, preservation workers, and many others.

    Having volunteers allows IWM Duxford to do more than it would purely with a smaller all paid workforce and in light of the year on year reductions by government of funding, becomes more and more important to allow it to grow and develop to its remit.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent K View Post
    What a stupid statement.
    I don't consider it stupid. I can walk in off the street at Hendon and not pay a penny, so the notion of volunteers working there makes sense. Duxford demands the best part of twenty quid from me, so it seems entirely reasonable to assume they can pay all of their staff. If you are good at something, never do it for free.

  28. #118
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    Then you'd be paying more to visit Duxford.

  29. #119
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    If you are good at something, never do it for free.
    Why not.............???

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    I don't consider it stupid. I can walk in off the street at Hendon and not pay a penny, so the notion of volunteers working there makes sense. Duxford demands the best part of twenty quid from me, so it seems entirely reasonable to assume they can pay all of their staff. If you are good at something, never do it for free.
    They do pay all their contracted staff, you're creating an issue that doesn't exist. I've not heard one volunteer state they should be paid for what they do. You're missing the point.

    You also clearly don't understand financial models in general and also the costs involved to run and develop Duxford. During this decade it will have seen government income reduce by over 50% and you're suggesting that they increase their costs significantly by paying volunteers? At a time when the permanent staff levels have been decreased through severance and other packages in order to sustain this reduction in fixed income. Should all volunteers be paid then the entrance fee would more than double and you'd lose so much mor than you'd gain by people stopping visiting and income decreasing.

    Volunteers volunteer because they want to give something to a cause they feel passionate about. If they were required to be paid then that opportunity would not exist. It's more than just about money. I do hundreds of hours a year voluntary work and it has given me great opportunities, I have made lifelong friendships, I have been to places and done things I never would have, it gives me a great break from my busy work life and commute and above all that the satisfaction in raising funds and helping the cause I feel so passionate about is very rewarding. I don't want to be paid for this.

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