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Thread: RuAF News and development Thread part 15

  1. #3451
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    Its clear after syria that change in procurement.
    http://tass.com/defense/946096
    Russia’s air force operation in Syria and the tasks of border strengthening in the Arctic require adjustments to the approaches to army revamping, Putin added

  2. #3452
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    @ Austin
    We will have to wait till July to get full picture of SAP 2018-2025 rather than relying on unsubstantiated report.
    +1 I also would have added it.
    The article is connected to the acquisition programme that is about to start and that refers to serially produced real items for regular service, not to research work or even prototypes concern.
    The latter is made by design bureaux, the former by Production Concerns/Associations, so its apple vs oranges there.
    And yes, acquisition programs in Russia overlap one with other, actual will finish in 2020 but first items of the new could and will be consigned before of this date.
    That's because in Russia they doesn't work with a cohomprensive decades-long agreement for each new plane like in the west but order instead a batch at time to Production Concern, with a separate contract for each one, so they would sign new ones to be produced under the new program while the old ones are still in execution.

    Being the whole process contract-centered, it can also happen like now that a plane whose development has still to be completed like the PAK-FA have already a deal inked in the old SAP, while another plane that is actually ready and produced for foreign customer like the Mig-35 would instead fall in the new one because it has not the contract ready (and have still to perform acceptance test for the VKS's own version).
    Now, even if the Pak-DA and PAK-DP would have given the maximum developmental priority there is no way in Earth, Hell or Heaven that they will be ready for serial production before 2022 i.e. for when the new SAP would be inked, so if the report is based just on this, it actually means nothing.
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 18th May 2017 at 07:36.

  3. #3453
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    Welp, get ready for more:

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3298425

    The military is planning a serious cutback in the number of helicopters it will procure in the next GPV. The military won't need hundreds of helicopters per year, as it has ordered over 1000 from 2011-2020, and for the first half of the next decade will either buy fundamentally new helicopters (high speed), or modernize existing birds.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  4. #3454
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    ^^ Even if Russian Military reduces purchase as they bought what they need , I think MIC will get compensated with bigger orders from export customer with Mi-38/Ka-62/Mi-28NM/Mi-26T2/Ka-52M/K comming onboard in next 5 years , Mi-17 is still the dark horse winning more orders then the rest of them.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  5. #3455
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    "Russian helicopters" and others are in for a rough few years, the new utility helos won't be serially produced for some time, plus the global market for the type of helos Russia exports is not booming right now. No way they will match the "hot" years from the first half of this decade for many years to come.

    Mi-8/17 sales have been steadily declining, and with the reduction in domestic orders....that does not bode too well for the overall portfolio. Ka-62 and Mi-38 are still mucking through testing, I don't see them making up the difference anytime soon.

    On the other hand Ulan-Ude is going to be making Mi-171A2s, while Kazan might be making another 50+ Mi-17V5s for India.

    The light helos are doing alright (Ka-226 got a big break with India + that means work for Ulan-Ude, and Ansat is finally civilian marketed with the non-FBW version), but unfortunately overall the presence of Russian light civilian helos is pretty negligible worldwide, despite it being the biggest seller type (if not best profit).
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  6. #3456
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    X-band is still the best option for targeting solution. L/S-band is better for early warning and detecting stuff at long range.
    X-Band is best when it comes to compactness versus gains , Likely fighter aircraft will continue to have X band FC radar as main solution.

    But when it comes to SAM where size and power limitation are not as acute as that of aircraft S & L band will prosper and most likely future sytem will be build on these bands/frequency to deal with all types of target including LO.

    Perhaps we might even see compactness coming to VFH Radar , it certainly got more mobile compact and accurate compared to what we saw with 60's Soviet VHF radar.

    I would perhaps bet and say SAM would move to Ku/Ka band seeker where trade off in range for LO target will be compensated by better resolution and burn through capability while most part of their trajectory would be guided by U/L/VHF band radar sensor fused for improved discrimination and range. X Band as missile seeker is coming to an end.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  7. #3457
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    The Russian philosophy seems to be to use 3 different bands, with VHF narrowing the search area for L Band and then X Band taking over after that. The reduction in search volume leads to more intense radiation and higher returns per unit time in the new search area.

  8. #3458
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    More like L , S and VHF band for Tracking/Survellence ....and S/X band for Acquisation/FC for S-xxx SAM

    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  9. #3459
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    http://dambiev.livejournal.com/829557.html

    A number of interesting photos of Kazakhstan's border guard Mi-171s.

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  10. #3460
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    More like L , S and VHF band for Tracking/Survellence ....and S/X band for Acquisation/FC for S-xxx SAM
    Looks like S/C Band in the info. Interesting, so is the RLM-S a dual band AESA then? Sub-arrays... interesting. Wonder if they're capable of operating independently?

    Wonder why they've gone for 3/8th lambda? Resonant dipoles are usually lambda/2.
    Last edited by Ryan; 18th May 2017 at 19:07.

  11. #3461
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    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  12. #3462
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    Kommersant says SAP 2018-2025 will cost 17 trillion rouble compared to SAP 2011-2020 cost of 19 Trillion rouble

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3299342
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  13. #3463
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    Beautiful, amazing, fantastic helo prototypes...said so, what is the utility of a Mi-24 going 500km at hour without carring any payload?

  14. #3464
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    Some official info on SAP 2018-2025 program

    Under the state program of armaments in Russia will develop the intellectual weapons, new air and ground drones - Rogozin

    05.20.2017 14:07:04
    (Amended version)

    Moscow. May 20. Interfax - The state armament program for the period until 2025 involves the creation of smart weapons, the development of new robots and drones, upgrade space group, said Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

    "New weapons program - is, in fact, an innovative program that includes the new approaches first of all, is the creation of smart weapons, automatic communications and intelligence appeared in our modern communications in the army.." - he said in the program " Vesti on Saturday with Sergeem Brilevym "the TV channel" Russia 1 "(RTR), which was broadcast on the Far East.

    "We appear robotic systems We are completing the development of new unmanned vehicles, and ground and air of course, is a powerful upgrade space group to conduct modern warfare requires space communications, space high-quality navigation and exploration...," - said Dmitry Rogozin.

    "We refuse gradually from the modernization of old armaments Although it must be said that the modernization of -.. It is the same normal as well as the creation of new models, but these upgrades should not be an infinite number of three-four modernization, no more because otherwise it stops.. creating already a new weapons system, "- said Deputy Prime Minister.

    "The fleet we have new ships we are doing today bet on muscular ships -.. Frigates, corvettes near, far sea zone What is not bright target for the enemy, and that brisk, agile, but is able to respond the same way as a large ship ", - said Dmitry Rogozin.

    "We will not have some kind of imbalance in favor of the Navy or the Air Force space, or in favor of the army," - said Dmitry Rogozin of the new state program of armaments.
    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=451616

    Russia begins work on a promising aviation complex long-range aircraft - Rogozin

    05.20.2017 14:29:14
    (Added reference information)

    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=451620

    Moscow. May 20. Interfax - The Russian industry is starting to work on creation of PAK DA (PAK DA), said Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

    "This does not mean that we have abandoned the creation of PAK DA According to it, the work begins." - Rogozin said in the program "Vesti on Saturday with Sergeem Brilevym" to "Russia 1" TV Channel (RTR). The program was broadcast on the Far East.

    According to Dmitry Rogozin, work proceeds on developing a modernized strategic bomber Tu-160m2. "We will re-create this machine is definitely on a new technical basis - with new electronics, new weapons", - said Deputy Prime Minister.

    Rogozin said that the work was begun on the creation of long-term aviation complex of military transport aircraft.

    "In the medium military transport aircraft the decision was made today in Sochi. We will do it. He will be with us at the turn of 2023-2024's. At the end, we are planning to raise in the air light transport aircraft. It is important for our army, which is compact, of course, be able to instantly be from transfer to any theater of war, where there is some kind of threat, "- said Deputy Prime Minister.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  15. #3465
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    ^^ What is the Medium Transport Aircraft program he is reffering to IL-214 or IL-80 ?
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  16. #3466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    A book/series of essays sure to give JSR palpitations:

    Jamestown -- Russia in Decline

    The essays on Russia's relations with China in relation to the Far East, Siberia and Central Asia are probably the most thoroughly interesting, while the mortality statistics from the pieces on Russia's demographics are the most immediately shocking.
    I have my own superior understanding of the world. Chinese immigration follow Jewish immigration. There is no chance of Chinese immigrating to Russia on mass scale. Russia and CIS are already overpopulated for its size . It need to exploit Middleast and Africa and use much greater force.
    At lower commodities prices so many countries will be converted to Chinada and Chinralia.
    https://www.ft.com/content/0003ce56-...a-6027b8a20f23
    Chinese group in talks to aid struggling jet maker Bombardier
    Russia alone has the scientific capacity and labor productivity to survive lower commodity prices and develop real modern weopons and without creating debt.

  17. #3467
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    did those pics posted.
    http://rostec.ru/en/news/4520081
    Myanmar has taken delivery of an initial batch of three Yakovlev Yak-130 'Mitten' advanced jet trainer/light-attack aircraft from Russia, senior Russian defence industry officials told at the LIMA 2017 exhibition in Langkawi

  18. #3468
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    Guys we missed a huge event- 40 years since T-10 took to the skies!
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  19. #3469
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    Rogozin on aircraft carrrier vs ground force spending. bomber is more important.
    https://sputniknews.com/politics/201...itary-program/
    We have not given up our plans on the prospective air complex for long-range aviation. The work on [the complex] is beginning," Rogozin told Vesti v Subbotu program, adding that the first PAK DA could be produced by 2023-2024.

  20. #3470
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    Looks like more money will be spent on Ground Forces in 2018-2025 compared to others , In SAP 2011-2020 Ground forces received least money.

    I am not sure if this is due to the experence of Ukraine and Syrian conflict but Rogozin in interview calls US a Sea Power and Russia Continental one https://sputniknews.com/politics/201...itary-program/
    "If we talk about building aircraft carriers — technically and technologically the Russian defense industry is capable of creating such a ship. There is a technical project and the work on it has never stopped. But there is a question to the military whether they need such a ship. Unlike the US, we are a great continental power, and [therefore] we have different priorities," Rogozin said.
    I see Russia does not have a large Standing Army , May be it has biggest Land Mass but does that Make Russia a Great Continental Power ?
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  21. #3471
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    @Austin
    It's just normal than in overlapping armaments programs the focus would shift between one and the other branch of an armed force, also for a question of availability of new technologies, so in their first new big one after the fall of the Soviet Union and two decades of procurement crisis they prioritized strategical deterrence and air force, now they would shift to land forces also because Armata, Kurganets and Boomerang are almost ready.
    Real bad news are about the Navy: there the embargo and above all the severing of ties with Ukraine have struck deep and hard.

    Your last distinction between mass and power are instead quite absurd, Russia is still one of the nations with the largest armed forces in the world.

  22. #3472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Looks like more money will be spent on Ground Forces in 2018-2025 compared to others , In SAP 2011-2020 Ground forces received least money.

    I am not sure if this is due to the experence of Ukraine and Syrian conflict but Rogozin in interview calls US a Sea Power and Russia Continental one https://sputniknews.com/politics/201...itary-program/


    I see Russia does not have a large Standing Army , May be it has biggest Land Mass but does that Make Russia a Great Continental Power ?
    Russia has borders with most countries, far more then the US. US is surrounded by friendly nations, especially Canada, to some degree Mexico. Invading the US is impossible without a navy. Thus US has largest navy for protection and power projection. Russia needs powerful army, airforce and air defence forces. Attacks on Russian come mostly through air and land. It would be stupid for any country to invade Russia without huge land forces and neighbouring countries forming a starting point. Different priorities. Russia should concentrate on its airforce 1, army 2. Then go with a strong submarine and attack force that could handle larger surface forces without the same money outlay as US does with 10 carriers. Then get 4 carriers when the economy is back on its feet with a strong attack destroyers frigate fleet. But in the end nobody's going to invade Russia with a nuclear force that it has. So this strategic force is now stronger then the US even. But power projection in minor and major conflicts come into play with normal non nuclear forces

  23. #3473
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    That shift of doctrines from USA military structure did start back in Soviet times. See Tu-22M with Kh-22, add Bears and Tu-160 too. Soviet did draw a direction where their Navy would be a last stand, and the Strategical/tactical mini clubs of their Airforce were to strike first at US Carrier groups.
    Rogozin is only confirming what has been Russia military Doctrines for many Decades.
    Thanks

  24. #3474
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    one would think Rogozin should be out of his job after the mess at Vostochny cosmodrome.i take his words with a pinch of salt.this reminds of another guy who should be unemployed -vitaly mutko.

  25. #3475
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    Looks like more money will be spent on Ground Forces in 2018-2025 compared to others , In SAP 2011-2020 Ground forces received least money.

    I am not sure if this is due to the experence of Ukraine and Syrian conflict but Rogozin in interview calls US a Sea Power and Russia Continental one https://sputniknews.com/politics/201...itary-program/
    "If we talk about building aircraft carriers — technically and technologically the Russian defense industry is capable of creating such a ship. There is a technical project and the work on it has never stopped. But there is a question to the military whether they need such a ship. Unlike the US, we are a great continental power, and [therefore] we have different priorities," Rogozin said.
    I see Russia does not have a large Standing Army , May be it has biggest Land Mass but does that Make Russia a Great Continental Power ?
    its not about doctorine but technological change. One refuelling of T-50 or Su-34 will give more than 7000km range. Those Su-30 limited to 5600km with one refuelling. i am not counting the improvements in bomber and UAV technology for range and loitering time.

    Improvements in AWACS/Radar and space survellence will further decrease the likely hood of suddent attack. these are all platform improvements.

    the range, speed and stealthness of cruise missiles increaing. i will not be surprized with 20,000km range cruise missiles. so why create ships that are more target of opportunity with manpower in one place and ships also slow, the same 30knots for decades. while fighter cruise speed nearly double.

  26. #3476
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    @Austin

    Why is Russia a continental power ?

    It has the biggest tank force in the world. The 2nd best air force in the world (Best wholly owned ie its paid for) It can build everything for its military inside its own borders. Whether its for space, deep water or air.

  27. #3477
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    What he means with Continental power, its the same as Regional Power.

    Russia do not have 180 military bases around the world. They do not have 10 super carriers and lots of smaller carrier fleet to travel the world.

    Hense, Russia is a Regional power, and not a global power in terms of their military.
    Thanks

  28. #3478
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    Regional power is a better way to put it , Although they enjoy Strategic Parity with US and others.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  29. #3479
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    What he means with Continental power, its the same as Regional Power.

    Russia do not have 180 military bases around the world. They do not have 10 super carriers and lots of smaller carrier fleet to travel the world.

    Hense, Russia is a Regional power, and not a global power in terms of their military.
    you dont need 180 bases or aircraft carrier to deliver round the clock the cruise missiles and billisitic missiles. it needs highly efficient industrial chain and effective R&D. with high quality people in force structure. Ruaf dropped more bombs and cruise missiles in Syria than all the rest of coalition combined. and that despite that Ruaf logistics are going zigzag to avoid this wide Turkey.
    out of those 180 bases how many can support armoured division to hold the ground if the local government is overthrown?.
    i can bet if Russia goes back to libya and Afghanistan it will be alot more effective than any one else.

  30. #3480
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    New Russian ORION combat drone spotted in Protasovo airfield

    https://twitter.com/CentreAST/status/867702456356134913

    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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