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Thread: Military Aviation News

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    Austria looks for new fighter as Eurofighter retirement looms.

    Eurofighter: These Are the Potential Successors

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    Austria looks for new fighter as Eurofighter retirement looms.

    Eurofighter: These Are the Potential Successors
    They are looking at lower performance fighters with economic operating costs. Basically supersonic air policing fighters. The best fit would be the golden eagles, in TA-50 and FA-50 guise for both training and operational duties.

  10. #3430
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    I am sure that the Teja will fit right in the equation.

  11. #3431
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    I am sure that the Teja will fit right in the equation.
    I would rather trust the koreans to deliver goods on time rather than the indians.

  12. #3432
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    Although it is no surprise to see an bad news story for Typhoon from that website, it does beg the question, who will buy the Austrian Eurofighters (which must be veery low hours considering how horribly expensive they are to use)?

  13. #3433
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    Although it is no surprise to see an bad news story for Typhoon from that website, it does beg the question, who will buy the Austrian Eurofighters (which must be veery low hours considering how horribly expensive they are to use)?
    Part them out for spares for Eurofighter partners or buy them and store them to be able to do so in the future? Over the years I have heard a number of comments regarding the high price of Typhoon spares.

    Shame that Tejas is not being produced in numbers so that some could be delivered to Austria within a reasonable time frame, allowing India to offer them to Austria.
    Last edited by Spitfire9; 5th July 2017 at 11:51.
    Sum ergo cogito

  14. #3434
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    who will buy the Austrian Eurofighters (which must be veery low hours considering how horribly expensive they are to use)?
    That 80,000 per flight hour seems bloody expensive. I don't believe it can be the marginal cost, i.e. the difference between the plane sitting on the ground for an hour & flying. I reckon their doing the same as here in the UK, & dividing total operating cost by hours flown. That has the effect of making the cost per hour go up as you fly fewer hours & IIRC the Austrian Eurofighters have relatively low flight hours, to keep costs down.

    That said, they should have bought Gripen first time round. It did everything they wanted, & for less money.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  15. #3435
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    Although it is no surprise to see an bad news story for Typhoon from that website, it does beg the question, who will buy the Austrian Eurofighters (which must be veery low hours considering how horribly expensive they are to use)?
    Nobody. They're Tranche 1 aircraft which Germans scammed on them, existing Eurofighter operators have no use for them and nobody else wants them for same reasons why they're not a success in Austria.

  16. #3436
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    The difficulty with this is that a CPFH which includes the cost of buying the aircraft, setting up everything needed to operate, them etc. is only useful when deciding whether to buy A or B. Once one's bought A, all that's a sunk cost. You can't get it back. So you should ignore it, & only consider the marginal cost, i.e. the difference between leaving the aircraft in hangars & flying them. and to work out if it's better to keep them or replace them, compare that with the total cost (including purchase price, conversion costs, etc.) of an alternative.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  17. #3437
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    Tejas is suggested for yet another fighter replacement program...

    Last edited by Fedaykin; 6th July 2017 at 11:57.
    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

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  18. #3438
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    Yama: Nobody. They're Tranche 1 aircraft which Germans scammed on them, existing Eurofighter operators have no use for them and nobody else wants them for same reasons why they're not a success in Austria.
    If you take a look at what happened you will find Germany did not scam them into buying Tranche 1 aircraft! Typhoon won the contest with an offering of Tranche 2 aircraft but there was a change of Government in Austria. The new government had campaigned on cancelling the order on taking office only to find the contract was too tightly tied up to do that so instead arm twisted EADS and the Eurofighter partners into selling them a stripped out variant of the Tranche 1 aircraft as a face saving exercise. For all the almost absurd amount of capabilities the Austrians stated they needed in the contest they ended up with a BVR air superiority fighter with short range air to air missiles and no defensive avionics. Defensive avionics that were discretely added later anyway, they didn't really save any money but ended up with a less capable and more expensive to run Typhoon variant.

    There is blame to be laid at the Eurofighter partners door for being so obsessed about getting a first export order (when Saudi Arabia was almost certainly in the bag sooner or later) that they put forward an almost un-refusable offer that even included some work share when the customer clearly had expectations beyond their actual needs!

    The Austrian airforce also need to accept some blame for not matching their expectations against their actual experience,their wish list of must have capabilities were almost comical especially when their Draken and F-5 didn't have those features. Considering up to that point they had operated 1950's vintage point defence fighters and hadn't even operated with a basic IR air to air missile until fairly recently one might consider that there might be issues cost and operationally taking on a late generation multi role twin engine air superiority fighter with the latest avionics!

    Of the final short list Gripen was the better choice but here is the rub I actually don't think any of the final options were suitable to their actual needs. They would have been better off looking for some low mileage F-5 and having them upgraded by the Swiss. There were still examples around that were available with plenty of hours on them!

    As for now, a sad end to a silly story really! Personally I think a variant of the M-346 FA with Grifo radar or the F/A-50 with EL/M2032 are a far better and affordable fit. Luckily the Tranche 1 Typhoon will have many thousands of airframe hours left so it isn't as if they would have to face a gap in capability...lets hope they don't mess it up!
    Last edited by Fedaykin; 6th July 2017 at 12:30.
    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

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  19. #3439
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    Good point but a subsonic trainer would be an aberration and certainly a soft spot in European skies.
    We have discussed this extensively already so no point going forward with this here.

  20. #3440
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    M-346 is low supersonic, from brakes off in a QRA situation it might well struggle to get up to an unresponsive airliner at cruise altitude. Then again it will be a darn sight more effective than the Saab-105 they are currently using for air policing. Their Typhoon are only available during business hours and their Saab-105 are doing more flight time in the role currently.
    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

  21. #3441
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    Again:
    Performance

    Never exceed speed: Mach 1.2 (1,470 km/h, 793 knots)
    Maximum speed: 1,059 km/h (572 knots)

  22. #3442
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    They would have been better off looking for some low mileage F-5 and having them upgraded by the Swiss. There were still examples around that were available with plenty of hours on them!
    The Swiss don't have an upgrade program for the F-5. They had and still have airframes with many hours left though, that's true. But what Austria wanted was a modern fighter, that's why F-16, EF and Gripen were shortlisted.

    Re. M-346, Austrian defence minister made it clear a jet with supersonic performance is required. Although technically, the M-346 is supersonic in a dive and the level of stupidity in Austrian politics knows no boundaries, so you never know. Announcement is apparently due tomorrow.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

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