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Thread: Spifire Mk 22 Empennage

  1. #31
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    ...Just for the sake of completeness to the whole sorry tale, has the physical point of theft been properly ascertained ?. Who would one report the theft to ?...the Indian Authorities or their British counterparts. I'm sure this would have a huge bearing on the retrieval of the stolen item, and would clear some hurdles for its potential recovery ??

  2. #32
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    It's a very cold case! If the Indian authorities were struggling with the location of a Me109 I doubt there would be much interest in a Spitfire tail !

    The decent thing would be for the current custodians of it to contact the owners of the Spitfire and deal directly to put it back where it belongs.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    ...Just for the sake of completeness to the whole sorry tale, has the physical point of theft been properly ascertained ?. Who would one report the theft to ?...the Indian Authorities or their British counterparts. I'm sure this would have a huge bearing on the retrieval of the stolen item, and would clear some hurdles for its potential recovery ??
    I am curious too. The current assumption is that the theft of the tail happened at Kharagpur in India. but whether any process (Police complaints, Complaints to the University etc) have been followed to report it is unknown at this point. I am also curious as to who the 'caretaker' at Kharagpur was.. was it the IIT College (The original owner)? What is their liability in this matter? did they follow up? did they just raise their hands and say .. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "what can we do?"

  4. #34
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    Yes Jagan .. It certainly looks like an "inside" job emanating from Kharagpore....but it still doesn't explain how the tailplane fillet fairing ended up with SpitfireSpares..

    ...Even if the fillet fairing stayed with the fuselage, it in itself has been "nicked", to be able to come to the market 25 years later !!

  5. #35
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    Ok, we are starting to points fingers here, without all the facts.

    I do know how the fillet ended up with Spitfire spares, and there is absolutely no hint of foul play there. That is all I will say on the subject, as there is an issue of commercial integrity which I will not break. The aircraft has however had more than one owner since being imported into the UK.


    Bruce

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    The aircraft has however had more than one owner since being imported into the UK.

    Bruce
    Bruce,

    Just the one original owner, but two custodians in the UK, the latter being tasked to move the project on for the owner to mitigate and minimise the loss.

    The fillet panel had been placed in the fuselage for transit and reached the UK. I suspect it just got lost along the way and was of little consequence with the tail unit missing.

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  7. #37
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    Please excuse me for any finger pointing, as it wasn't the intention. I must admit, there would have to be a valid reason for the fillet being offered. It's a shame that the current owner (or Jeet Mahal for that matter) have to see this item come to light, when realistically it still belongs to them, and would probably appreciate having the item returned.

  8. #38
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    I have just come across this ancient thread . I can tell you all I did not steal this piece and anyone who suggests it better put up or shut up. I bought this in good faith along with the MOD plate from a well know aircraft restoration company
    . Any suggestion I stole this is a lie , I am not a thief and everything I buy and sell is legitimate. I take great offence to any suggestion to the contrary.
    when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth
    Baz owns the second best Spitfire Replica in the World.

  9. #39
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    Peter Arnold Please state for the record that you suspect me of stealing this piece ?
    Last edited by Graham Adlam; 15th June 2017 at 14:56.
    when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth
    Baz owns the second best Spitfire Replica in the World.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Adlam
    Please state for the record that you suspect me of stealing this piece ?
    Graham, calm down, calm down. Nobody is accusing you of anything. We know the precise route of the fillet panel from India, where I removed it, to it coming in to your possession.

    What we do know is that the complete tail unit of this aircraft, that I removed in preparation for transit to UK and was placed in 'inside safe keeping', was stolen and later was reliably reported having been spotted in an Antipodean Spitfire workshop.

    Mark

    Newport Pagnell this Sataurday with the Spitfire replica?
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  11. #41
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    Mark so there is no suggestion the fillet I own was stolen ? because that was not stated on the previous comments and looks very much like there is finger pointing or suspicion
    going on. The person I bought this from is beyond reproach and I am quite sure you know who I am talking about. It certainly would have been helpful my business be mentioned that this piece was not part of the tail that went missing.
    when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth
    Baz owns the second best Spitfire Replica in the World.

  12. #42
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    I think a bit of misinterpreatation of what Mark12 said has taken place earlier in the thread

  13. #43
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    Graham,

    In post 35, I stated that there was no suggestion whatever that there had been any dishonesty on your part, and that the fillet had been obtained perfectly legally. Since that posting, and Mk12's below mine to back it up, there has been no suggestion otherwise.



    Bruce

  14. #44
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    Indeed the tail section itself is the problem.There is something about Spitfires and Australia that dont mix well.
    "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
    http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12
    Graham...Newport Pagnell this Sataurday with the Spitfire replica?
    Apparently not.

    It seems there are at least two replica Spitfires on the static display circuit painted as EN398 JE-J.

    This one at today's 'Newport Pagnell 1940's vintage weekend' was accompanied by a very convincing 109e.

    The BBMF Hurricane PZ was scheduled to make an appearance at 13:24...and arrived at 13:24.

    Mark


    Last edited by Mark12; 17th June 2017 at 13:36.
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  16. #46
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    Mark
    One thing puzzled me from the original run of this thread- what is so special about the Mk 22 empennage that its loss reduces the value of the project by 50%?
    Steve

  17. #47
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    I've re- read this thread and am still at a loss as to how the fillet made it back to the UK, but didn't stay with the rest of the A/C; was it (in light of the whole tail section's disappearance) deemed superfluous?

    In other news I now believe the person who took my fuselage frames is a forum member; the only reason I haven't sued him for their return is that it involves a third person, who doesn't need the agro, but the world of $pitfires is full of low life scum, and the more I hear (and see) the less I want any involvement at all.
    Why be your own worse critic, that's what the forum is for.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve6111
    ...what is so special about the Mk 22 empennage that its loss reduces the value of the project by 50%?
    As reported in post#2 it was actually a Mk XVIII tail unit.

    It was purchased for x$ and sold to France for a reported x/2$, without a tail group. Disproportionate, but that was market at the time.

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  19. #49
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    On a lighter (and hopefully less controversial) note....there is a reasonably intact Mk22 Spitfire down-under in the Bull Creek (Perth) RAAF Association Museum.

    http://www.raafawa.org.au/museum/sup...spitfire_1_174

    ...geoff
    ...converting fuel to noise.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuart gowans
    ...am still at a loss as to how the fillet made it back to the UK, but didn't stay with the rest of the A/C; was it (in light of the whole tail section's disappearance) deemed superfluous?
    During the dismantling process a few bits and pieces including the fillet were placed deep in the fuselage for transit.

    When I departed the fuselage and and wings were prepared with multi-rope slings in preparation to lift in to an open top 40ft container.

    With paperwork issues it was some months before the Spitfire was on the move.

    The owner or his agent had opted for individual open frame free standing crating and a long road trip to Bombay and that is how it arrived in the UK...but minus the tail group.

    The assumption at the time was that somewhere in the transit the tail unit had been purloined for scrap by locals.

    The owner directed a further custodian to just sell the project as is and move on and take the hit on the loss. He was a businessman rather than a Warbird Enthusiast.

    The custodian retained the fillet panel, which had little value, by default or as a souvenir, and some years later passed it on to Graham Adlam.

    Mark

    TP367/HS669 arrival in Bedfordshire, 13 August 1994,
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  21. #51
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    Thanks Mark; an answer as comprehensive, as my education!
    Last edited by stuart gowans; 19th June 2017 at 09:34. Reason: altered it again because I can.....
    Why be your own worse critic, that's what the forum is for.

  22. #52
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    And further to my last question it has often been said that something is worth what someone is willing to pay on the day that it is offered for sale. It doesn't have to make sense. And what it was worth last month or next month doesn't matter either.

    To quote Mark12 "Disproportionate, but that was market at the time." Twas always thus. It didn't seem sensible to me and probably wasn't then. I have to assume that back in the day a complete late Griffon Spit was worth a lot but an incomplete one wasn't for some reason. Maybe the expertise for reconstructing a new set of tail feathers for a late Spit wasn't there then? I don't know. It was a long time back.

  23. #53
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    In other news I now believe the person who took my fuselage frames is a forum member; the only reason I haven't sued him for their return is that it involves a third person, who doesn't need the agro, but the world of $pitfires is full of low life scum, and the more I hear (and see) the less I want any involvement at all.
    WTF seriously?
    "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
    http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

  24. #54
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    Steve611, if it was a Business Man rather Warbird Enthusiast and it was close to the end of the financial year and the cigar man had a taxable profit for the financial year and was in the business of buying machinery and the machinery was on a ship that sunk then he could claim the loss as a tax deduction, in other words pay less tax than he ought to, and so indirectly recover his cash. Likewise if the machinery arrived and had missing pieces he could quickly sell it at a loss and get his money back via a tax write off, rather than deal with the complication of trying to sell damaged machinery to tyre kickers at 'fair market value'. All this is theoretical, as in real life this would only be done by the Business Woman, who has now taken over the earth !

    For your pleasure, the tax offset comes from consolidated revenue, which is you and you and you. Somebody else had to contribute tax to give the tax offset to the Business Man, otherwise the traffic lights would not work. So in fact you paid for the difference in price ! This is why the Business Man smokes cigars and you roll your own !

    The only good news in this is that the Business Man is often not a good pilot, so tends to crash. I am still waiting for Trump to elbow some pilot out of the way, with a 'you don't know how to really drive this son' !

    All this talk of antipodean skullduggery is depressing. I don't know anything about this story except for being drawn into it the same way as I am drawn into the marital problems of Brad and Angelina on a magazine cover in a supermarket queue. But I must defend fat, sleepy koalas from the raging British Lion with a thorn in its shoe ! If it wasn't for Park then GB would be tucking into sauerkraut for breakfast ! All this could be amicably settled with a sword fight somewhere, and once somebody's ear has been cut off, a glass of chartreuse. I trust my tax and conflict resolution advice may be useful.

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