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Thread: Russia moving tac air troops to Syria

  1. #6601
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    And now back to the SYRIAN news;

    https://youtu.be/HSvO0gImWNE

    Words are the SDF has reach an agreement with SAA around RAQQAH and along Efreities River. Thus SAA now has free range towards Deir Eir Rezor without worring about SDF anymore.
    Looks like US has eigther come to their senses or they are out of luck(influence) in Syria. FSA is soon history as well.

    Earlier the US general for special forces said during an Seminar in Aspen that US Air Assets are under constant locked down(painted) by Russian Ground defence and VKS forces over Syria. Guess this started after the Su-22 shot down. .
    Last edited by haavarla; 26th July 2017 at 16:31.
    Thanks

  2. #6602
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    I have a feeling both the US and Russia will backstab the SDF after the Rakka Operation. Geo-strategically both Russia and the US will be scrambling to appease get Turkey onboard.

  3. #6603
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    On top of all this some claim that there is a Quid pro quo and that Turkey will be giving something in addition to the $2.5 billion. Perhaps some concessions in Syria. It is also no secret that Turkey will be using the first S-400 systems in Syria (most probably the "Kurdish Corridor").
    Most of Western jets fly in Kurdish corridor. they will be long gone before Turkey learned S400 system operations.

    This in turn means that Turkey is gearing up for a massive show down in Syria. One also notes that Turkey has begun modernizing a large chunk of its tank fleet after it lost numerous Leopard's and M-60T Sabra's.
    Turkey isnt capable of showdown when it is massive. the tanks are outdated and complex. they will barely survive 100km outside maintainance area.

  4. #6604
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    Turkey keeps ferrying reinforcements to Syrian border.



    Turkish Tank modernization (40 M60A3, 40 Leopard II A4 and 120 M60T tanks) had commenced in January and should be finished soon. : http://www.defensenews.com/land/2017...grade-contest/
    Last edited by Bayar; 27th July 2017 at 07:30.

  5. #6605
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    I have a feeling both the US and Russia will backstab the SDF after the Rakka Operation. Geo-strategically both Russia and the US will be scrambling to appease get Turkey onboard.
    The country is total war torn. Its been going on for years now. You think they want to keep fighting..
    If the Russians and SAA can find a deal with SDF after ISIS is gone then they will take it. Assad gets back all his Oil fields at least 90% of them. SDF could transfere more territories over to SAA in the North in order to create a buffer zone between them and Turkey.
    I am more worried about the pockets of FSA. Will the ceasefires hold after ISIS?
    Last edited by haavarla; 27th July 2017 at 09:28.
    Thanks

  6. #6606
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    @haavarla (my quote buttons have disappeared for some reason)

    Turkey-Russia-Iran-Syria (Assad) are all working together in Syria now. Turkey even has back-door communication with President Assad through a guy named Dogu Perincek.

    Turkey's priority is to keep Syria intact and maintain its mixed demographics (rather than its division into ethnic/sectarian groups). Hence, why it is taking moves to counter any Kurdish independence movements in Syria. If the Kurds get independence then the Turkomen will want theirs etc. Russia, Iran and Syria's objective is also the same. The Turkey-Russia-Iran-Syria (Assad) axis know that Washington/SDF have different plans for Syria. Thus, any agreement between the SDF and SAA or Russia is temporary and for tactical reasons only.

  7. #6607
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    Its much more complicated then that..
    Before the failed coup in Turkey, Iridogan was on US agenda(and his own), which was certainly not on Assad and Russias side!
    Now fast forward Ered, found him self out of thrust worthies friends, and saw no other opertunity than to let go os US interest, and adjust his own interest.
    Putin, the Clever thug would not for splitt second pass on a chance to help Turkey splitt from NATO. Pragmatic and opertunistic as he is, he has told Ered everything he want to hear.. weapons deal, energy deal.
    But what is Putin's big goal, see NATO crumble.

    So don't think for a second that Ered and Putin has the same agenda in M.E.
    Thanks

  8. #6608
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    Have you every thought that Turkey was bullied into abiding by the US agenda in Syria due to pressure?

    When President Erdogan came to power and invited President Assad to Ankara relations with Syria were amazing. He was even mediating between Syria and the US. Then the US began to threaten Turkey with internal issues unless he abandoned his soft approach with Syria.

    Erdogan did. But then Washinton turned on Erdogan. This is what prompted Erdogan to shift to the East. Beacause with Washington he was dammed if he did and dammed if he didnt.

    Could it be that Turkey like Mr. Putin now wants to also weaken NATO in response to the coup attempt?

  9. #6609
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    Bayar, is that an A400M those troops are travelling on?

    It's such a civilised way to fly - no wonder they look so happy and relaxed.

    I wonder how the interior compares to other transports around the world?

  10. #6610
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    Turkey is technologically backward, unreliable(Kosov, Ukraine) and simply not have money to be partner of Russia. Qatari money will run out. this unsustainable.
    If there was no Iran in middle. this Arab alliance will teach lesson to Turkey. Arabs simply can buy more Russian weopons, more capital in the banks and can squeeze the West.

    http://www.jordantimes.com/news/regi...%99-over-qatar
    Egypt tells EU no ‘compromise’ over Qatar

  11. #6611
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya
    I wonder how the interior compares to other transports around the world?
    C-17A Globemaster III


    C-5A Galaxy


    Il-76TD Candid
    Last edited by MSphere; 27th July 2017 at 16:42.

  12. #6612
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    Thanks MSphere.

  13. #6613
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    Its a Airbus Military A400M. Turkey is a consortium partner in the A400M program and produces many parts for this plane.

    @JSR To you anyone not subservient to Russia is 2nd tier and technologically not advanced. FYI The Arabs had been under Imperial Ottoman administration for in excess of 600 years.
    Last edited by Bayar; 27th July 2017 at 22:04.

  14. #6614
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    Yeah those so called ootoman times when the that area was desert and produce nothing . Now it is oil and all the imported weopons and training. Arab coalition has imposed no fly zone on Yemen and drop so many bombs. They have defacto no fly zone on Qatar except small corridor through Iran. It's matter of time they turn there attention to Turkey.

  15. #6615
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    JSR, I think you do not understand how Sunni Islam works and Turkey's role in the Sunni Islamic world (at the people to people level). Turkey is the only Sunni country that can lay claim to a Sunni Caliphate at any moment and issue Fatwa's (Islamic Rulings). Why? because the successors to the Ottoman Caliph are still in Turkey. All Turkey has to do is extend legal recognition to him. Now many Arab Heads of State will seek to downplay or not recognize any Turkish Sunni Caliph, however, they know very well that at the people to people level many of their citizens would support such moves.

    The global powers know what Turkey could do if and when it plays the religion card.

  16. #6616
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    It's quite obvious you know very little. It's not sunni powers but Russia and Iran sent largest number of tourists to Turkey and certainly It's not Sunni powers that sent largest Oil/gas to Turkey. The Turkish brand name Turkish airlines can't exist without Russia. just look around the map. It will became way smaller and bankrupt. Its Ruaf presence in Syria that is protecting Turkey from Israel/Arabs/ Kurds . You can see Turkey has nothing to offer.

  17. #6617
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    @JSR, the same way Russia has "protected" Syria? The only thing Russia protects is its interest and bases.

    Turkish Airlines can't exist without Russia? Do you know in which region Turkish Airlines has the most customers? EUROPE

    As for Turkey needing protection I don't think so. Turkey has nuclear sharing treaties with both NATO and Pakistan.

  18. #6618
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    Russia is clearly protecting Turkey. UAE minister already landed in Armenia. Saudis alone has ordered $350b worth of weopons. and i bet it has UAE money involved as Saudis by themselves not that Rich. they can easily fund kurdish state with full fledged bases. UAE still has to choose alot of new fighters. The size of KSA/UAE/Egypt airforce will be over 1000 fighters.
    Turkish airline use is just transit from EU to Asia/Middleast.
    No NATO or Pakistan or any one else will come to Turkey rescue. who want to lose millions of jobs for Turkey.

  19. #6619
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    I wonder how the interior compares to other transports around the world?
    Both the Il-76 and the old Shorts Belfast can fit an upper trooping deck, which filled that empty space.

    Maximum trooping configuration for the Belfast in RAF service was 110 on lower deck and 140 upper. Alternatively troops on the upper deck and cargo below.

    The C-17 wasn't specified with attachments for an upper deck, so when trooping it always conveys lots of empty air.

    But in general unless there is some important tactical consideration it's always better to move troops in chartered airliners. They're designed to move lots of people and their baggage efficiently in reasonable comfort.
    Last edited by Cherry Ripe; 29th July 2017 at 06:56.

  20. #6620
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    I have been particularly struck by the difference in the interior fit in the A400M (which we still call Grizzly in our house) and even the RAF C17.

    Despite the various roles it is called on to perform, the almost surgical neatness of the cargo space is in great contrast to the older transports (as illustrated by the traditional fit of the C5 or even C130).

    And the newer IL76 is just as impressive. Thats probably the most relevant post (in relation to title) this topic has seen for months.
    Last edited by mrmalaya; 29th July 2017 at 10:40.

  21. #6621
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    How the US f**ked up its alliance with Turkey. A good lesson on how not to push a NATO ally into Russia's lap!

    "We literally played back to them [the Turks, by re-branding a terrorist organization at our initiative]"


  22. #6622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    How the US f**ked up its alliance with Turkey. A good lesson on how not to push a NATO ally into Russia's lap!
    Enough with the entitlement man, the US didn't f**k up its alliance with Turkey, Turkey did with its Neo ottoman aspirations.

    I didn't see you complain when the US when serving Turkey's interests. Stop crying now. Turkey is probably the most imperialistic, militaristic country in the world for the last 40 years issuing warnings to all of its neighbours over the years, besides perhaps North Korea. And the only country to illegally occupy with an occupation army another sovereign country which happens to be an EU country as well and the only country to issue a 'Casus belli' against another European country.

    You've had problems (which usually involves some kind of military action) with :

    Greece, Cyprus, Egypt, Israel, Russia, Bulgaria, Iran, Iraq.. let me see, did I leave anyone out? and now with the US and Germany too.
    Frankly I am surprised the rest of the world is still tolerating this Turkish attitude. Geography has been kind to you, but moderate that entitlement.

  23. #6623
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    Enough with the entitlement man, the US didn't f**k up its alliance with Turkey, Turkey did with its Neo ottoman aspirations.

    I didn't see you complain when the US when serving Turkey's interests. Stop crying now. Turkey is probably the most imperialistic, militaristic country in the world for the last 40 years issuing warnings to all of its neighbours over the years, besides perhaps North Korea. And the only country to illegally occupy with an occupation army another sovereign country which happens to be an EU country as well and the only country to issue a 'Casus belli' against another European country.

    You've had problems (which usually involves some kind of military action) with :

    Greece, Cyprus, Egypt, Israel, Russia, Bulgaria, Iran, Iraq.. let me see, did I leave anyone out? and now with the US and Germany too.
    Frankly I am surprised the rest of the world is still tolerating this Turkish attitude. Geography has been kind to you, but moderate that entitlement.
    You mean the island leased to the Brits then stolen by them after WWI.

    The Island Turkey had to intervene in to protect the genocide of the Turkish minority because a junta Government wanted ENOSIS- reunification with Greece?

    The Island Turkey intervened in pursuant to a Treaty of Guarantee 1960 giving it express rights to intervene if there was intercommunal fighting?

    Occupying an EU member? You mean the Turkish Minority group on the Island VOTED for independence after Turkey prevented a genocide and guaranteed their safety?

    Perhaps you can fool someone else but not someone that knows the non-distorted facts.

    I posted the above here to show who bck stabbed who and why Turkey is taking the stance it is taking in Syria of late.

    THE US JUST ADMITTED TO ARMING A TERRORIST GROUP REBRANDED BY THEM TO USE AS A DESTABILISING FORCE IN SYRIA

    Perhaps Turkey should re-brand ISIS, Al QAEDA, AL NUSRA etc and use them against the SDF since its ok to "rebrand" terrorist organisations according to the US.

    P.S. Turkey is not the one seeking to carve out Statelets in the Middle East that furthers its interests- the last I checked the US has more than 15 bases in Northern Syria.
    Last edited by Bayar; 29th July 2017 at 13:31.

  24. #6624
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    This thread has deteriorated into pro-Turkish political propaganda. Why have the moderators not shut it down? Our forum is meant to be for aviation-related topics.
    Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

  25. #6625
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    his thread has deteriorated into pro-Turkish political propaganda. Why have the moderators not shut it down?
    X2

  26. #6626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    You mean the island leased to the Brits then stolen by them after WWI.

    The Island Turkey had to intervene in to protect the genocide of the Turkish minority because a junta Government wanted ENOSIS- reunification with Greece?

    The Island Turkey intervened in pursuant to a Treaty of Guarantee 1960 giving it express rights to intervene if there was intercommunal fighting?

    Occupying an EU member? You mean the Turkish Minority group on the Island VOTED for independence after Turkey prevented a genocide and guaranteed their safety?

    Perhaps you can fool someone else but not someone that knows the non-distorted facts.

    I posted the above here to show who bck stabbed who and why Turkey is taking the stance it is taking in Syria of late.

    THE US JUST ADMITTED TO ARMING A TERRORIST GROUP REBRANDED BY THEM TO USE AS A DESTABILISING FORCE IN SYRIA

    Perhaps Turkey should re-brand ISIS, Al QAEDA, AL NUSRA etc and use them against the SDF since its ok to "rebrand" terrorist organisations according to the US.

    P.S. Turkey is not the one seeking to carve out Statelets in the Middle East that furthers its interests- the last I checked the US has more than 15 bases in Northern Syria.

    Oh yeah, that's right, I left Syria out of the countries Turkey has invaded/bullied/threatened/insulted.. I knew I'd forgotten something..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurius
    This thread has deteriorated into pro-Turkish political propaganda. Why have the moderators not shut it down? Our forum is meant to be for aviation-related topics.
    it's kinda the point I was making..

  27. #6627
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    Oh yeah, that's right, I left Syria out of the countries Turkey has invaded/bullied/threatened/insulted.. I knew I'd forgotten something..



    it's kinda the point I was making..
    Have a read of the Treaty of Ankara.

    So when the US comes from 20,000 km away and invades a country its policing but when the Turks intervene pursuant to Treaty or the right to self defense its aggression??

    I think Turkey hasn't shown enough how determined it is to not to allow the partitioning of Syria along ethnic/religious lines.

    The US under the guise of giving the Kurds the right to self-determination is seeking to divide the entire Middle East along ethnic and sectarian lines. It is not happy with the maps drawn post-WWI and Turkey is the only obstacle in this plan.

    P.S Its not propaganda when you respond to slanderous comments about ones country! And this entire thread is political so I don't understand why some people on here are whining. Perhaps these guys don't like hearing another version of the events in Syria.
    Last edited by Bayar; 30th July 2017 at 00:54.

  28. #6628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra
    X2
    X3

  29. #6629
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    Personally I find this discussion quite interesting. Although, it is counter to the title of the thread itself and may require its own thread.

  30. #6630
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    US (McGurk): "Idlib has become safe heaven for Al-Qaeda. We will speak with the Turks"

    Turkey: "US is becoming very provocative, "McGurk was reminded of both the fact that the root causes enabling terrorist organizations to find footholds in Syria and Iraq could only be eradicated if the deeds and actions of all relevant actors do not contradict one another"

    The situation in Syria between the US and Turkey is deteriorating at an alarming rate.


    Turkey protests US envoy McGurk's ‘provocative’ Idlib remarks

    https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy...-idlib-remarks

    DAILY SABAH, ISTANBUL, Published: 15 hours ago

    The Turkish foreign ministry said it protested the U.S. special envoy for Global Coalition to counter Daesh, Brett McGurk's recent "provocative" remarks for making a connection between Turkey and the presence of terror groups in Syria's Idlib.

    Turkish MFA spokesperson Hüseyin Müftüoğlu said Sunday that Turkey's reactions were directly brought to McGurk's attention at a high-level demarche and that "his statements, which could be characterized as provocative" were protested.

    "McGurk was reminded of both the fact that the root causes enabling terrorist organizations to find footholds in Syria and Iraq could only be eradicated if the deeds and actions of all relevant actors do not contradict one another, and our expectation that the Syria-based terrorist organization PYD/YPG is not supported for whatever the reason may be," Müftüoğlu said.

    Speaking at a panel on Trump's fight against terrorism in the Middle East Institute in Washington on Friday, McGurk claimed that Idlib has turned into a "safe zone for al-Qaida terrorists on the Turkish border."

    He also attributed the al-Qaida-lined terror group's power to obtaining weapons and foreign fighter flow, also mentioning that the U.S. intended to work with Turkey to close down the northeastern border to recruited militants.

    Turkey, Iran and Russia previously agreed to establish de-escalation zones in Idlib, parts of Aleppo, Latakia and Homs, Damascus/Eastern Ghouta and parts of Daraa and Quneitra.

    Presidential spokesman İbrahim Kalın said last month that the Turkish and Russian military could jointly deploy troops in Idlib to ensure security and order in the area.

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