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Thread: Rafale news & discussion part XVI

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    I got my popcorn ready and would love to see how long the F-35 in such environment, for a change..
    A lot longer than the Rafale, EF, Gripen E etc. Each one of them will be tracked by hostile radars a long long way off. Alternatively, you can fly at ground level in which case your situational awareness is reduced to a minimum. Your intelligence better be solid which is again hard because the other side will shoot your satellites down.

    Point being, there is little doubt that a VLO aircraft is far better suited to penetration missions than a conventional fighter. The difference is substantial. And there's pretty much a consensus on that in the world which is why there are so many stealth types in development or planning today.

  2. #122
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    just to clarify the situation, inventory of lybia air defense assets...

    - 1 bomber squad (6 TU22)
    - 9 fighter squads (15 Mirage F1 ED, 94 Mig 25, 75 Mig 23, 45 Mig 21, 3 Mirage F1 BD, 3 Mig 25U
    - 7 fighter/bomber squads (6 SU24 MK D, 14 Mirage F1 AD, 40 Mig 23 BN, 53 su17M2/SU20 , 15 Mig 23U
    - 2 reco squads (7 Mig25R, 4 Mirage 5DP30
    - unknown (to me) exact number of Hind Mi 25D and Mi35

    Air defense : (5 regions)
    - 3 brigades (each 20-24 SA6 or SA8)
    - 2-3 brigades (12 SA3 each)
    - 5-6 brigades with 18 SA2 each
    - 4 brigades using SA5A (1 radar and 6 lauchers each)
    - 4+ batallions anti aerial artillery

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    just to clarify the situation, inventory of lybia air defense assets...
    AFAIK none of the fighters or helicopters in its inventory left the ground after the no-fly-zone was declared except for a Galeb trainer that was destroyed on the tarmac. And with widespread defections coupled with low morale across the board the efficacy of the ground based air defences was equally doubtful.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovy View Post
    Tell that to the pilots who actually flew over Libya during the first day with no SEAD support and did see the sam missiles trails passing by their aircraft.
    Rafale really didn't face any resistance from SAM or enemy's fighter , SEAD was done by Italian F-16

  5. #125
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    er, just remind me, how long after the Rafales started their missions did the Italians join in? Or do you imply they used some "Back to the future" tricks to do their SEAD prior to Rafales' flights while joining after?

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by mig-31bm View Post
    Rafale really didn't face any resistance from SAM or enemy's fighter , SEAD was done by Italian F-16
    Considering :
    - AMI F-16 were Block 15 ADF variants which are not equipped with HARM/Shrike nor any kind of guided anti radiation weaponry and avionics
    - French aircraft saw action a few days (weeks if we take F1CR & other reconnaissance missions into account) before any other airforce,

    we can safely assume you don't know what you are talking about.
    Last edited by EC 5/25 Corsair; 22nd May 2015 at 07:46.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCool_12f View Post
    er, just remind me, how long after the Rafales started their missions did the Italians join in? Or do you imply they used some "Back to the future" tricks to do their SEAD prior to Rafales' flights while joining after?
    France started their mission first, but didn't do SEAD , Italian does
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_...ntion_in_Libya

  8. #128
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    On 19 March, nineteen French Air Force aircraft entered Libyan airspace to begin reconnaissance missions as part of Opération Harmattan, and flew over Benghazi to prevent attacks on the rebel-controlled city.[42] Italian Air Force planes reportedly also began surveillance operations over Libya. In the evening, a French jet destroyed a government vehicle. Shortly afterward, a French airstrike destroyed four tanks southwest of Benghazi.[43] US and British ships and submarines fired at least 114 Tomahawk cruise missiles at twenty Libyan integrated air and ground defense systems.[44] Three US B-2 Spirit stealth bombers flew non-stop from the US to drop forty bombs on a major Libyan airfield, while other US aircraft searched for Libyan ground forces to attack.[45][46] Twenty-five coalition naval vessels, including three US submarines, began operating in the area.[47] NATO ships and aircraft began enforcing a blockade of Libya, patrolling the approaches to Libyan territorial waters.

    Libyan State TV reported that government forces had shot down a French warplane over Tripoli on 19 March, a claim denied by France.[48]

    On 20 March, several Storm Shadow missiles were launched against Libyan targets by British jets.[49] Nineteen U.S. jets also conducted strikes against Libyan government forces. A loyalist convoy south of Benghazi was targeted. At least seventy vehicles were destroyed, and loyalist ground troops sustained multiple casualties.[50] Strikes also took place on the Bab al-Azizia compound in Tripoli from late 20 March to early 21 March.

    By 21 March, the Libyan government's SA-2, SA-3, and SA-5 air defense systems had been completely neutralized, while further strikes took place on targets Tripoli, and according to the Libyan government, in Sabha and Sirte.[51]

    On 22 March, Coalition strikes continued, and a Libyan aircraft flying towards Benghazi was attacked. An American F-15E Strike Eagle fighter jet on a bombing mission crashed after experiencing equipment failure. The pilot and weapons officer ejected and were recovered by a US rescue team inserted by helicopter.[52]

    By 23 March, the Libyan Air Force had been largely destroyed, with most of its aircraft destroyed or rendered inoperable. The Libyan government's integrated air defense system was also degraded to a point where Coalition aircraft could operate over Libya with almost total impunity.[53] On that same day, Coalition aircraft flew at least two sorties against government forces in Misrata. Later in the day, it was announced that all government forces and equipment, with the exception of individual snipers, had retreated from the city or were destroyed. In the early morning hours, four Canadian CF-18 jets supported by two CC-150 Polaris tankers bombed a government ammunition depot in Misrata, marking the first time Canadian jets bombed Libya since the campaign began.[54]

    On 24 March, a loyalist Soko G-2 Galeb that violated the no-fly zone was shot down by a French Dassault Rafale as it attempted to land near Misrata. Another five Galebs in the area were destroyed on the ground by a French airstrike the following day. The same day, a British submarine fired multiple Tomahawk Land Attack cruise missiles at Libyan air defenses.[55]

    On 25 March, NATO announced that it would be taking over the command of the no-fly-zone operations, after several days of heated debate over who should control operations in Libya. The US had continuously reiterated that it wished to hand over command to an international organization.[56] Airstrikes continued during the day. Two Royal Norwegian Air Force F-16s destroyed a number of Libyan government tanks. French Air Force jets destroyed a government artillery battery outside Ajdabiya, and British and French jets carried out a joint mission outside Ajdabiya, destroying seven government tanks.[57] On that day, the Libyan Health Ministry reported that 114 people had been killed and 445 wounded since the bombing campaign started.[58] However, a Vatican official in Tripoli reported on 31 March that Coalition airstrikes had killed at least 40 civilians in Tripoli.[59]

    On 26 March, Norwegian F-16s bombed an airfield in Libya during the night. Canadian CF-18s bombed government electronic warfare sites near Misrata.[60] French aircraft destroyed at least seven loyalist aircraft, including two military helicopters. British jets destroyed five armored vehicles with Brimstone missiles, and Royal Danish Air Force F-16s destroyed numerous loyalist self-propelled rocket launchers and tanks.

    On 27 March, Danish aircraft destroyed government artillery south of Tripoli, while Canadian jets destroyed ammunition bunkers south of Misrata. French jets knocked out a command center south of Tripoli, and conducted joint patrols with Qatari aircraft.[61]

    On 28 March, Coalition forces fought their first naval engagement when the USS Barry, supported by a P-3 Orion patrol aircraft and A-10 Thunderbolt attack aircraft, engaged the Libyan Coast Guard vessel Vittoria and two smaller craft, after the vessels began firing indiscriminately at merchant vessels in the port of Misrata. The Vittoria was disabled and forced to beach, another vessel was sunk, and the third abandoned.[62] The same day, British jets destroyed two tanks and two armored vehicles near Misrata, and ammunition bunkers in the Sabha area.

    On 29 March, U.S. aircraft fired on another Libyan Coast Guard vessel after it opened fire on merchant ships in the port of Misrata, forcing it to limp to shore. Coalition airstrikes continued to hit loyalist ground forces and military targets throughout Libya, with U.S. aircraft employing tankbuster missiles.[63] The following day, French and British jets conducted strikes on loyalist armor and air defenses.

    On 31 March, NATO took command of Coalition air operations in Libya. Subsequent operations were carried out as part of Operation Unified Protector. Daily Coalition strikes continued to target Libyan government ground forces, air defenses, artillery, rocket launchers, command-and-control centers, radars, military bases, bunkers, ammunition storage sites, logistical targets, and missile storage sites. These strikes took place all over the country, many of them in Tripoli, where the Bab al-Azizia compound was also targeted. The strikes caused numerous material losses and casualties among government forces.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timel...byan_Civil_War

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC 5/25 Corsair View Post
    Considering :
    - AMI F-16 were Block 15 ADF variants which are not equipped with HARM/Shrike nor any kind of guided anti radiation weaponry and avionics
    - French aircraft saw action a few days (weeks if we take F1CR & other reconnaissance missions into account) before any other airforce,

    we can safely assume you don't know what you are talking about.
    My bad, i was meant to write Italian tornado and F-16, and give a link but don't know why it not appear
    19 March: BBC News reported at 16:00 GMT that the French Air Force had sent 19 fighter planes to cover an area of 100 km by 150 km (60 by 100 miles) over Benghazi to prevent any attacks on the rebel-controlled city.[1] "Our air force will oppose any aggression by Colonel Gaddafi against the population of Benghazi", said French President Nicolas Sarkozy.[2] BBC News reported at 16:59 GMT that at 16:45 GMT a French plane had fired at and destroyed a Libyan military vehicle – this being confirmed by French defence ministry spokesman Laurent Teisseire.[1]
    According to Al Jazeera, French aircraft destroyed four Libyan tanks in air strikes to the south-west of Benghazi.[3] The French military claimed that its aircraft had also flown reconnaissance missions over "all Libyan territory". On the same day, British Prime Minister David Cameron confirmed that Royal Air Force jets were also in action and reports suggested that the US Navy had fired the first cruise missile. CBS News's David Martin reported that three B-2 stealth bombers flew non-stop from the US to drop 40 bombs on a major Libyan airfield. Martin further reported that US fighter jets were searching for Libyan ground forces to attack.
    The Pentagon and the British Ministry of Defence confirmed that, jointly, HMS Triumph and U.S. Navy ships (including USS Barry, pictured) and submarines fired more than 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles, supported with air attacks on military installations, both inland and on the coast.[4][5]
    At the start of operations United States Africa Command commanded by General Carter Ham exercised strategic command.[3] Tactical command in the theater of operations was executed from USS Mount Whitney in the Mediterranean Sea under command of Admiral Sam Locklear, commander United States Naval Forces Europe.[3] United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates indicated that control of the operation would be transferred to French and British authorities, or NATO, within days.[6]

    Libyan Forces attacked south of Benghazi
    20 March: Several Storm Shadow missiles were launched by British jets.[7] Nineteen US planes conducted strike operations in Libya. The planes included Marine Corps AV-8B Harriers,[8] US Navy EA-18G Growlers, which were diverted from operations over Iraq and jammed Libyan radar and communications,[9][10] and Air Force F-15 and F-16 fighter jets.[11] A military convoy was destroyed south of Benghazi by air strikes. Seventy military vehicles are known to have been destroyed, multiple loyalist ground troop casualties were also reported.[11]
    Four Danish F-16 fighters left Italy's Sigonella air base for a successful five-hour-long "high-risk mission",[12] and four Italian Tornados ECR, accompanied by four Italian F-16 as fighter escorts took off from the Trapani base. A second immediate cease-fire was declared by the Libyan Army on 20 March, starting at 9 pm.[13]
    21 March: SA-2, SA-3 and SA-5 air defence systems in Libya have been destroyed by Italian aircraft during a raid near Tripoli. Only SA-6, hand-held SA-7s and SA-8 mobile SAMs remain a possible threat to aircraft.[14] A spokesman for the National Transitional Council said Gaddafi's forces were using human shields in defence of their military assets, bringing civilians to Misrata to surround their vehicles and troops to deter airstrikes.[15] RAF Tornados aborted a planned airstrike due to information that a number of civilians were reported close to the intended target.[16] Among the buildings hit late on 20 March and early 21 March were parts of the Bab al-Azizia compound often used by Colonel Gaddafi.[17] Further strikes on Tripoli and, according to Libyan government spokesmen, Sabha and Sirte, took place on late 21 March.[17]
    22 March: During a mission over Libya, a US F-15E crashed in rebel-held territory. It was reported that the aircraft, based at RAF Lakenheath in England, came down following a mechanical fault. Both crewmen were rescued by a US CSAR unit,[17][18][19] but six local villagers were injured by gunfire from the rescuing US forces.[19][20] There are claims that the pilot called in a bomb strike by Harrier jump jets, possibly injuring the civilians.[21] The US announced that Qatari forces would join the operation by the weekend.[22]
    23 March: Coalition aircraft flew at least two bombing missions against loyalist forces near the besieged city of Misrata.[23] Late in the day, it was announced that the remaining pro-Gaddafi forces and their equipment in the city, with the exception of individual snipers, had been forced to retreat or had been destroyed.[24] In the early morning hours, four Canadian Forces CF-18 Hornets conducted two separate bombing runs on multiple targets at a pro-Gaddafi munitions depot near Misrata. NATO announced it will enforce the UN embargo to "cut off the flow of arms and mercenaries" under the name Operation Unified Protector.[25][26][27]
    24 March: Multiple Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched at targets during the day.[28] French aircraft attacked Al Jufra Air Base 250 kilometres (160 mi) inland and destroyed a Libyan Soko G-2 Galeb light attack jet as it landed at Misrata Airport.[29][30] Eyewitnesses reported that coalition aircraft had bombed Sabha Air Base, 620 kilometres (390 mi) south of Tripoli.[31] F-16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force were assigned to the US African command and Operation Odyssey Dawn. A number of Norwegian F-16s took off from Souda Bay Air Base on Crete, Greece, performing several missions over Libya during the day, evening and through the night.[32][33]
    25 March: Three laser-guided bombs were launched from two F-16s of the Royal Norwegian Air Force against Libyan tanks.[34] French Air Force destroyed an artillery battery overnight outside Ajdabiya. RAF Tornado fighter/bombers together with the French Air Force struck and destroyed seven pro-Gaddafi tanks dug in on the outskirts of Ajdabiya with precision guided munitions.[35][36]
    26 March: F-16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force bombed an airfield in Libya during the night.[37] Two CF-18s from the Canadian Forces detachment conducted one sortie each, on a mission to release precision-guided munitions against electronic warfare sites near Misrata.[38] French Air Force confirms the destruction by its aircraft of at least 5 Libyan Soko G-2 Galeb aircraft and 2 Mi-35 military helicopters.[39] RAF Tornados destroyed three armoured vehicles in Misrata and a further two vehicles in Ajdabiya with Brimstone missiles.[40] Royal Danish Air Force (RDAF) F-16s knocked out Libyan self-propelled rocket launchers and tanks.[41]
    27 March: RDAF F-16s knocked out Libyan self-propelled artillery south of Tripoli.[42]

    US Military map showing the situation of 28 March 2011
    4 Canadian Forces CF-18s struck and destroyed Regime ammunition bunkers 92 km south of Misrata.[43] Air Force and Navy Rafales attacked a command centre south of Tripoli. French and Qatari Mirage 2000-5s conducted joint patrols and air interdiction missions from Souda Air Base. The number of French Mirage 2000-5s based as Souda was increased to four.[44]
    28 March: RAF Tornados destroyed two Libyan tanks and two armoured vehicles near Misrata earlier in the day.[45] The Ministry of Defence said British jets had launched missiles against ammunition bunkers in the morning in the Sabha area of southern Libya.[46] Air operations were planned to focus on the region around Zintan and Misrata.[44] A US Navy P-3 Orion Maritime Patrol aircraft fired at the 12-meter Libyan Coast Guard vessel Vittoria after multiple explosions were seen near the Libyan port of Misrata Monday evening forcing it to be beached.[47] The USAF said an A-10 Thunderbolt also fired on two smaller Libyan vessels traveling with the larger ship, destroying one and forcing the other to be abandoned. Air force Rafales and Mirage 2000Ds and a joint patrol of Navy Rafales and Super Etendards bombed an ammunition dump at Gharyan, 100 kilometres (62 mi) south of Tripoli.[48] Mirage F1CRs conducted reconnaissance missions for the first time in the operation.[48]

  10. #130
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    Toocool's point and mine remain valid. French Air Force did not wait for SEAD to send recon aircraft days before the intervention and first raids on the 19th.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezco View Post
    combat proven mean something for the people that are able to understand what it means. For the others, no surprise again the non smart proven trolls
    All the Rafale's competitors are also combat proven as regards those that have actually entered service. So it doesn't really distinguish it. Just like bombing ISIS. Is that really even combat? Combat entails a 2-way exchange surely otherwise only one side is fighting. Did any SAMs actually leave the ground in Libya?
    Last edited by lukos; 22nd May 2015 at 09:40.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    just to clarify the situation, inventory of lybia air defense assets...

    - 1 bomber squad (6 TU22)
    - 9 fighter squads (15 Mirage F1 ED, 94 Mig 25, 75 Mig 23, 45 Mig 21, 3 Mirage F1 BD, 3 Mig 25U
    - 7 fighter/bomber squads (6 SU24 MK D, 14 Mirage F1 AD, 40 Mig 23 BN, 53 su17M2/SU20 , 15 Mig 23U
    - 2 reco squads (7 Mig25R, 4 Mirage 5DP30
    - unknown (to me) exact number of Hind Mi 25D and Mi35

    Air defense : (5 regions)
    - 3 brigades (each 20-24 SA6 or SA8)
    - 2-3 brigades (12 SA3 each)
    - 5-6 brigades with 18 SA2 each
    - 4 brigades using SA5A (1 radar and 6 lauchers each)
    - 4+ batallions anti aerial artillery
    Mostly hidden in warehouses to save it presumably.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC 5/25 Corsair View Post
    Toocool's point and mine remain valid. French Air Force did not wait for SEAD to send recon aircraft days before the intervention and first raids on the 19th.
    ...and everyone else's point remains valid. Libya's air defenses were almost completely non-existent or non-operational so that really doesn't say much.

  14. #134
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    Libya's air defenses were almost completely non-existent or non-operational
    Which is why everyone else spent a lot of effort on SEAD & DEAD . . . .
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

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    Did they? If by SEAD/DEAD, you mean firing cruise missiles at warehouses packed full of SAMs, then I guess they did some.

  16. #136
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    strangely, the long quote posted by mig31 talks about hitting SAM sites, SAM batteries and so on, bit never about destroying missiles that were hidden or in storage... do you have any proif they were hiding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    Which is why everyone else spent a lot of effort on SEAD & DEAD . . . .
    Hardly...

    The US fired one big barrage of cruise missiles to account for known sites (no doubt including many that weren't even operable) that was pretty much it.

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    Here is roughly what the FAF did over Lybia and why Rafale is "combat proven".

    http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-...hree_Fox15.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream View Post
    Here is roughly what the FAF did over Lybia and why Rafale is "combat proven".

    http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-...hree_Fox15.pdf
    Super, so we are going to use manufacturers glossy brochures to support arguments now? Hold on, I'm sure there are some for Eurofighter, SAAB, Lockheed, and all other manufacturers that had aircraft in combat over Libya.

    Again, none of this should be viewed as an attack on the Rafale itself as a combat aircraft. But how many aircraft were fired on by sams? How many DCA sorties did the Libyan airforce generate? I would say that the Typhoon, Rafale, F-16 block 60, and Raptor have had their combat debut, and leave it at that.

    Libya was a marketing coup for Dassault who used it to contrast their systems maturity over the Typhoon. But does any sane person really think that it would have made a difference if it were M2000's or Tornados, or F-16AM, etc. tasked with strike missions in Libya. It would seem that there is a considerable amount of chest beating going on, and frankly, it's embarrassing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    All the Rafale's competitors are also combat proven as regards those that have actually entered service. So it doesn't really distinguish it. Just like bombing ISIS. Is that really even combat? Combat entails a 2-way exchange surely otherwise only one side is fighting. Did any SAMs actually leave the ground in Libya?
    The problem with your demonstration, on this and on other topic, is that you based your logic on what you see in Hollywood movies, combat proven mean much more than 2 way weapon exchange. the final weapon delivery is "just" the final result. I don't want to enter in detail as your a bit to young.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream View Post
    Here is roughly what the FAF did over Lybia and why Rafale is "combat proven".

    http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-...hree_Fox15.pdf
    Oh great, 'FoxThree', now there's an impartial source.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezco View Post
    The problem with your demonstration, on this and on other topic, is that you based your logic on what you see in Hollywood movies, combat proven mean much more than 2 way weapon exchange. the final weapon delivery is "just" the final result. I don't want to enter in detail as your a bit to young.
    Does fighting ISIS count as 'combat proven'? Does a UFC fighter kicking an OAP's head in count as combat?
    Last edited by lukos; 22nd May 2015 at 12:36.

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    says the man who draws conclusions from Eurofighter publications that go way beyond what even Eurofighter claim...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Mostly hidden in warehouses to save it presumably.
    That the famous tactics from Lukos, if you are attacked by fighter jets, hide your air defence in warehouse, then the fighters can quietly destroy ammunition stock, airport, radar and command bunker.
    Once all the strategic target of your country are destroyed, then you can implement your air defence outside to protect the remaining... desert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezco View Post


    That the famous tactics from Lukos, if you are attacked by fighter jets, hide your air defence in warehouse, then the fighters can quietly destroy ammunition stock, airport, radar and command bunker.
    Once all the strategic target of your country are destroyed, then you can implement your air defence outside to protect the remaining... desert.
    Yep nonsensical, nobody said Gadaffi was a master tactician/strategist. FWIW Saddam Hussein pretty much did the same in GWII. He figured on surviving, just like Gadaffi did and thought it best to try preserve his best weapons. Zero planes shot down, just like in Libya. They both had planes, they just didn't use them, seems silly now, damn hindsight hey. I guess after seeing GWI unfold, they never thought they had a chance in hell anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCool_12f View Post
    says the man who draws conclusions from Eurofighter publications that go way beyond what even Eurofighter claim...
    There are Rafale people on this very board who think DERIDA will give the Rafale the RCS of an F-22 regardless of stores configuration. Hint: Their name is associated with pumpkins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Yep nonsensical, nobody said Gadaffi was a master tactician/strategist. FWIW Saddam Hussein pretty much did the same in GWII. He figured on surviving, just like Gadaffi did and thought it best to try preserve his best weapons. Zero planes shot down, just like in Libya. They both had planes, they just didn't use them, seems silly now, damn hindsight hey. I guess after seeing GWI unfold, they never thought they had a chance in hell anyway.

    Please don't involve Khadaffi in your lie the lybian warehouse exists only in your mind.
    Last edited by Ezco; 22nd May 2015 at 13:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezco View Post
    Please don't involve Khadaffi in your lie the lybian warehouse exists only in your mind.
    Okay then, explain why Gaddafi and Saddam had aircraft, but not a single one was shot down in GWII or the Libyan intervention. The statistics speak for themselves, sorry to burst your PR bubble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Okay then, explain why Gaddafi and Saddam had aircraft, but not a single one was shot down in GWII or the Libyan intervention. The statistics speak for themselves, sorry to burst your PR bubble.
    First it was SAMs, now it's aircraft. Constantly shifting the goalposts you are...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Kardinal View Post
    First it was SAMs, now it's aircraft. Constantly shifting the goalposts you are...

    Did the Libyans fire some SAMs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezco View Post


    That the famous tactics from Lukos, if you are attacked by fighter jets, hide your air defence in warehouse, then the fighters can quietly destroy ammunition stock, airport, radar and command bunker.
    Once all the strategic target of your country are destroyed, then you can implement your air defence outside to protect the remaining... desert.
    Actually , in a war again country with much stronger military, it is a valid tactics to hide your aircraft, and SAM in warehouse for the first few hours, days of the conflict, and only let them out once in a while for what called guerrilla warfare
    Laughing all you want but that tactics was used very effectively in Vietnam and Serbia war, Of course it doesn't always work , however assume such tactics is invalid just showed your limited knowledge about history
    Last edited by mig-31bm; 22nd May 2015 at 16:54.

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