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Thread: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Already funded for integration in P3E
    CFTs;
    Storm Shadow MLU (anti-ship capability);
    Brimstone II, anti-tank and DEAD capability, up to 18;
    Paveway IV dual racks, up to 12 in total;
    ASRAAM upgrade (unspecified, based on CAMM?);
    Meteor;
    DASS upgrade;
    Striker II helmet;
    AESA radar (Captor-E).
    Do you have a source?

    The twin rack surely look like a mock-up to me. And it isn't a new proposal, anyone remember this one:
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    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Pffft, sure you did, that's what you now argued about forever and a day.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...99#post2220399
    Did I? Show me where...

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    It says it has RF cyberwarfare and both active and passive detection/tracking capabilities, which is more than can be said for RBE2-AA.
    Nowhere does it say it already has them..

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Your comment wasn't exactly related either, just something that put you in bad company, e.g. Saddam Hussein.
    Basement level of argumentation has just found its new definition..

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Not every test pushes the absolute limit in terms of simulating the greatest imaginable enemy threat. Some training scenarios in the last decade have had fighters mimicking 3rd generation fighter enemies. So in that particular case, you get left with a situation where a mechanically scanned radar, a PESA, an AESA, or even an IRST system ticks the box.
    In other words: NAVY took the new radar, put it under some ridiculously useless test conditions so that they can claim AESA sucks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    It's plain to see. The immediate belief in the Rafale's whole electronic stealth BS over in the F-35 thread. I see people willing to believe any Rafale hocus-pocus claim ever made, like the recent BS about the AESA RBE2 having a >100% increase in range over the PESA, putting it on par with an APG-77 based on RBE2 PESA range claims. Yeah, that's right, the RBE2-AA is apparently 8 times more efficient than an APG-77 relative to its size. Pffft.
    I can only repeat myself - show me where I have ever claimed any of these... Good luck searching..
    Last edited by MSphere; 2nd May 2015 at 23:32.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Swap the Paveway IVs for another 3 Brimstones and you're looking at taking out a dozen tanks, IFVs, APCs, artillery pieces or SAM sites from up to 60km away in a single mission. It's a moderately effective SEAD/DEAD package as well as a precision strike package. SPEAR will be another game changer. I think that the next few years will see the Typhoon undergo massive development, as the Tornado is phased out:

    Already funded for integration in P3E
    CFTs;
    Storm Shadow MLU (anti-ship capability);
    Brimstone II, anti-tank and DEAD capability, up to 18;
    Paveway IV dual racks, up to 12 in total;
    ASRAAM upgrade (unspecified, based on CAMM?);
    Meteor;
    DASS upgrade;
    Striker II helmet;
    AESA radar (Captor-E).


    Soon after 2018 - funded for development?
    SPEAR quad racks.
    Lukos stop talking nonsense! The only not weapon related changes as part of P3E are avionics reliability improvements.
    Captor-E is funded under a separate contract, Striker II at best a BC and don't expect too much from the number of weapons the aircraft will be cleared to carry!

    Furthermore changing/improving the integration of weapons does not necessarily entail changes to the weapons itself.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    Lukos stop talking nonsense! The only not weapon related changes as part of P3E are avionics reliability improvements.
    Captor-E is funded under a separate contract, Striker II at best a BC and don't expect too much from the number of weapons the aircraft will be cleared to carry!

    Furthermore changing/improving the integration of weapons does not necessarily entail changes to the weapons itself.
    Sorry Scorpion, that was what I seemed to make of this.

    http://www.eurofighter.com/news-and-...ement-contract
    Last edited by lukos; 3rd May 2015 at 07:57.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle View Post
    Do you have a source?
    Recent tweet. Makes sense given that a multiple store is being added for Brimstone anyway.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Did I? Show me where...
    I showed you where in the last post. You clearly began arguing with someone who stated that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Nowhere does it say it already has them..
    Seems crystal clear to me. Captor-E will provide them.

    http://www.armada.ch/aircraft-self-p...ophistication/

    The latest support to self-protection will however originate from the new aesa radar which is to replace the Captor system, providing in a spiralled programme with passive, active and cyberwarfare RF capabilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Basement level of argumentation has just found its new definition..
    The dictionary has a picture of your name and avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    In other words: NAVY took the new radar, put it under some ridiculously useless test conditions so that they can claim AESA sucks?
    Maybe they tested it on the sort of mission they actually tend to execute these days, rather than WWIII. Not every test is WWIII-based.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    I can only repeat myself - show me where I have ever claimed any of these... Good luck searching..
    Go look on the Rafale thread at the sort of crap being spouted.

  7. #97
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    Just reading the eurofighter pr, I think it remains to be seen what real weapons are going to be hung from the real life aircraft. The list:

    The Phase 3 Enhancement contract is scheduled for delivery in 2017. All four core nations will work on flight control and avionics and the contract will centre round a scheduled programme of weapon testing, the development and testing of flight control systems, and finally store clearing and store release testing. The initial fit for the Brimstone 2 missiles on the Eurofighter will see two launchers fitted to the outboard pylons of the Eurofighter each carrying three Brimstone 2 missiles.

    "The full swing-role, multi-role weapons compliment on the Eurofighter could now include a mix of: six Brimstone 2 missiles; up to six Paveway IV bombs, two long-range Storm Shadow missiles, four Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and either two IRIS-T or two ASRAAM heat-seeking missiles."

    .....doesnt include fuel tanks so cannot be seen as a realistic weapon carriage configuration.

  8. #98
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    I know that all Tranche 3 aircraft have provisions for CFTs.

  9. #99
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    Yes I agree. The RAF however are not making much noise about that capability (possibly because of internal politics pre SDSR) and no one else is bothered to my knowledge.

    Storm shadow needs CFT however.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya View Post
    Yes I agree. The RAF however are not making much noise about that capability (possibly because of internal politics pre SDSR) and no one else is bothered to my knowledge.

    Storm shadow needs CFT however.
    Well it's debatable. Storm Shadow has a range of 300nm on a lo-lo flight profile, the Typhoon has a range of 2900km with just AAMs and internal fuel. Add a central drop tank and you're still be looking at circa 2500km even with the Storm Shadows, giving a strike radius of at least 1811+km with no aerial refuelling even if you send the missile on the lowest flight profile and easily over 2000km for higher flight profiles. For many nations that is enough, it's only really in fairly exceptional circumstances that one requires a longer range than that. In 1991 over Iraq, most airstrikes took places over <1000km in radius and the range offered with Storm Shadow and a central drop tank is enough to hit Baghdad from Yemen for comparison's sake and more than enough to reach Tehran from Riyadh, without even entering Iranian airspace. In fact in 1991 the longest cruise missile strike was 1500km with a Tomahawk from the Gulf of Oman, strikes from the Persian Gulf were about half that range. For many an airstrike from more than 1800km away with 3 drop tanks isn't really too realistic (or even necessary), unless the enemy is a) useless or b) thoroughly crippled wrt air power and air defence capacity, in which case mid-air refuelling becomes an option. It's an easy fit and the potential is there though should there be any weird export requirements.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    I showed you where in the last post. You clearly began arguing with someone who stated that.
    No, you didn't. I have read it thru, there is no me claiming anything about RBE2-AA's new back-end.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Seems crystal clear to me. Captor-E will provide them.
    Sure it will.. The question is when.. My best bet is several years after RBE2-AA has it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    The dictionary has a picture of your name and avatar.
    More infantile remarks like this don't make your claims any more true.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Maybe they tested it on the sort of mission they actually tend to execute these days, rather than WWIII. Not every test is WWIII-based.
    Go and ask them..

    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Go look on the Rafale thread at the sort of crap being spouted.
    Compared to the crap you're spouting?

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    And now Saab really is rubbing it in by offering the Gripen as a Typhoon replacement in Austria..

    How they'd manage to finance such a sale when they don't want to pay to keep their existing fleet of Typhoons flying is beyond me. Why would the Austrians need to replace perfectly viable T1 Typhoons meant for the air policing role anyway?

    Saab pitches Gripen as Typhoon replacement for Austria]

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    No, you didn't. I have read it thru, there is no me claiming anything about RBE2-AA's new back-end.
    Even when you're proved wrong, you deny ever saying something LMAO.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Sure it will.. The question is when.. My best bet is several years after RBE2-AA has it.
    When it's introduced, currently being integrated.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    More infantile remarks like this don't make your claims any more true.
    A response was to an infantile remark.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Go and ask them..
    You made the claim, you go ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    Compared to the crap you're spouting?
    Like what? Most of my comments are either true or good-intentioned at the very best. The Rafale crowd, change parameters, accuracy specifications and ranges at will over time.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    And now Saab really is rubbing it in by offering the Gripen as a Typhoon replacement in Austria..

    How they'd manage to finance such a sale when they don't want to pay to keep their existing fleet of Typhoons flying is beyond me. Why would the Austrians need to replace perfectly viable T1 Typhoons meant for the air policing role anyway?

    Saab pitches Gripen as Typhoon replacement for Austria]
    T1s can't be equipped with AESA, insufficient cooling, and I guess they can't afford T2s or T3s. Really they just can't afford an airforce.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    T1s can't be equipped with AESA, insufficient cooling, and I guess they can't afford T2s or T3s. Really they just can't afford an airforce.
    It might be they could if they had bought a light single-engined fighter in the first place.
    Sum ergo cogito

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackArcher View Post
    How they'd manage to finance such a sale when they don't want to pay to keep their existing fleet of Typhoons flying is beyond me. Why would the Austrians need to replace perfectly viable T1 Typhoons meant for the air policing role anyway?
    Certainly because it's not viable.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire9 View Post
    It might be they could if they had bought a light single-engined fighter in the first place.
    Projected operating costs are always lower than real operating costs. According to this they have T2s not T1s. 15 fighters hardly constitutes an airforce though, in fact anything less than 60-80 will cause you operational problems. Training still costs the same to develop whether you're training 15 people or 150 people, then you have the relatively higher costs of purchasing smaller quantities of spares, effect of downtime etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austri...rent_inventory
    Last edited by lukos; 4th May 2015 at 12:06.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya View Post
    Yes I agree. The RAF however are not making much noise about that capability (possibly because of internal politics pre SDSR) and no one else is bothered to my knowledge.

    Storm shadow needs CFT however.
    Def agree

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    T1s can't be equipped with AESA, insufficient cooling, and I guess they can't afford T2s or T3s. Really they just can't afford an airforce.
    A sqiss jorno even qutoed the possibility of UAE -9 for Austria (I think he liked too much Ricola with strage herbs and/or musrooms)

  20. #110
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    UAE 9 what?

  21. #111
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    Mirage 2000-9 lukos.

    Yet again you show how little you comprehend. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

  22. #112
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    People are once again confusing "Don't want to" with "Can't."

    Austria is perfectly capable of fielding a fully equipped air force suitable for her needs, if she decides to do so.
    To date the politicians have not seen the benefit of running under a ticket that says full funding for the armed forces and the people have not created any demand for such. Thus the funds are not allocated to support such.

    Sadly the peoples of Europe and their representatives have decided that defence is not a priority and thus are happy to see public funds spent on things other than defence.

    This will all change when somebody like putain is allowed to keep pushing the boundaries until they cease being able to understand where the boundaries are and something kicks off, then the people will be demanding to know why more wasn't spent on defence before it was too late...
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    Mirage 2000-9 lukos.

    Yet again you show how little you comprehend. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
    Well forgive me for not knowing the ins and outs of legacy Mirages and the UAE AF.

    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    People are once again confusing "Don't want to" with "Can't."

    Austria is perfectly capable of fielding a fully equipped air force suitable for her needs, if she decides to do so.
    To date the politicians have not seen the benefit of running under a ticket that says full funding for the armed forces and the people have not created any demand for such. Thus the funds are not allocated to support such.

    Sadly the peoples of Europe and their representatives have decided that defence is not a priority and thus are happy to see public funds spent on things other than defence.

    This will all change when somebody like putain is allowed to keep pushing the boundaries until they cease being able to understand where the boundaries are and something kicks off, then the people will be demanding to know why more wasn't spent on defence before it was too late...
    You actually make some good points when you're not being insulting. The UK armed forces have definitely been starved for some time and have major capability gaps, which won't all be plugged for at least 5 years and even then maritime reconnaissance will have a hole.
    Last edited by lukos; 4th May 2015 at 13:44.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Well forgive me for not knowing the ins and outs of legacy Mirages and the UAE AF.
    No, the details are important.
    If you don't know the basics don't begin to think you can arrive and attempt to lecture people and present your opinion and beliefs as worthwhile.
    That in itself is insulting.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    No, the details are important.
    If you don't know the basics don't begin to think you can arrive and attempt to lecture people and present your opinion and beliefs as worthwhile.
    That in itself is insulting.
    Seriously? He didn't even specify 'Mirages' or '2000s', he just said -9s? That's a little too cryptic for non-Dassault enthusiasts. Just because I didn't know that it doesn't mean I don't know far more than you about some other things, okay?

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    This will all change when somebody like putain is allowed to keep pushing the boundaries until they cease being able to understand where the boundaries are and something kicks off, then the people will be demanding to know why more wasn't spent on defence before it was too late...
    Sheer assclownery.

    Nic

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukos View Post
    Seriously? He didn't even specify 'Mirages' or '2000s', he just said -9s? That's a little too cryptic for non-Dassault enthusiasts. Just because I didn't know that it doesn't mean I don't know far more than you about some other things, okay?
    UAE and -9 on a Modern Military Aviation Forum and you think somebody has to be a Dassault enthusiast to get the reference...?

    Says all anybody needs to know about your level of knowledge.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas10 View Post
    Sheer assclownery.

    Nic
    Said various folk in the 1930's... not least large elements of the French right wing population...
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
    Bertrand Russell

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    Said various folk in the 1930's... not least large elements of the French right wing population...
    I wasn't talking about budgets. Indeed most of the defense budget is to serve as a US puppet in "wars" that are both useless & detrimental to our image in the world. If half the money we spend on OPEX was used to maintain a credible defense the point would be moot, whatever your twisted analysis of present day Russia.

    If we have to defend against something in the future it will be against the consequences of our blind allegiance to NATO, not against Russia or Poutine. NATO builds enough enemies for itself, you don't even need real ones.

    Nic

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu352 View Post
    Said various folk in the 1930's... not least large elements of the French right wing population...
    There's a lot that happened during the 1930s and before that isn't widely talked about that directly led to WWII, not that it in any way excuses Hitler's actions but it does explain why the rest of Germany followed him.

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