Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 1 of 67 123451151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 1981

Thread: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,587

    Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

    Eurofighter pitching to Indonesia:

    A final assembly facility for the world’s most versatile and reliable fast-jet fighter could be built in Indonesia it has been re-confirmed this week - if the Nation chooses to opt for the Eurofighter Typhoon and the chance to develop its own indigenous capability.
    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...indonesia.html

    If India does not look ready to absorb Rafale TOT, does Indonesia look ready to absorb Typhoon TOT?
    Sum ergo cogito

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,925

    A final assembly facility for the world’s most versatile and reliable fast-jet fighter could be built in Indonesia
    er, Eurofighter consortium is selling Rafales now? coool!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,449
    Even if Indonesia wants to go down the domestic assembly/workshare route, I don't see how Typhoon has any prospects at all against a similar offer from SAAB. Typhoon would be more expensive across the board, duplicate the weight class of KF-X, and have far more limited export prospects throughout the rest of South-East Asia.
    Last edited by Rii; 17th April 2015 at 07:39.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire9 View Post
    Eurofighter pitching to Indonesia:



    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...indonesia.html

    If India does not look ready to absorb Rafale TOT, does Indonesia look ready to absorb Typhoon TOT?
    Its just an assembly line (probably for SKD kits at that). Don't read too much into it. The F-35's ToT isn't being shared with anyone but that hasn't stopped the FACO lines from being created in Italy and Japan. IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by TooCool_12f View Post
    er, Eurofighter consortium is selling Rafales now? coool!
    Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4,439
    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.
    As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,449
    Eurofighter tried to copy Dassault's marketing, but wound up advertising the "Omnishambles Fighter".


    (I kid, I kid. F-35 is the Omnishambles Fighter, obviously.)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,925
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...

    it certainly is (what some seem to forget), but if I was trying to sell the Typhoon on today's market, I wouldn't use "most versatile" argument to depict it. I'm sure they can find a more credible one... (considering what they are paid to do their job, they better be able to do it)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Cemetery Junction
    Posts
    13,420
    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    ... IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.
    Eventually cancelled because the Saudi partner never got round to setting up the assembly plant, hiring workers, etc., & BAE gave up & started assembling the kits it'd been making & storing . . .
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...
    That must be cultural then , sounds to me more like a low grade commercial advertisement a bit like "seen of TV", but I guess one could see that as marketing. Not too sure how effective it is tough in the market space.

    I effectively do not recall Dassault ever trumpeting its products to be second best , or anything less for that matter. But more seriously I do not think I ever came across any Dassault 's advertisement of comparable nature.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4,439
    Quote Originally Posted by TooCool_12f View Post
    it certainly is (what some seem to forget), but if I was trying to sell the Typhoon on today's market, I wouldn't use "most versatile" argument to depict it. I'm sure they can find a more credible one... (considering what they are paid to do their job, they better be able to do it)
    Credibility is nothing that marketing departments or representatives appear to really care about. It's always going to be the best in the advertisers, in one form or another. In the current situation its difficult anyway. The aircraft is good and offers a great potential, but exploiting it requires investments which are often coming slowly. At the same time the price is to high for most and the competition is hard.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4,439
    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    That must be cultural then , sounds to me more like a low grade commercial advertisement a bit like "seen of TV", but I guess one could see that as marketing. Not too sure how effective it is tough in the market space.

    I effectively do not recall Dassault ever trumpeting its products to be second best , or anything less for that matter. But more seriously I do not think I ever came across any Dassault 's advertisement of comparable nature.
    If claiming "to be a generation ahead of the competition" isn't a comparable exaggeration, I don't know what is. But as said that's the business of those people. 99% of the readers/watchers won't know whether it reflects reality or not and those who know take it for what it is and won't decide for or against the product based on marketing claims like these.

    As such it's not seriously worth to even discuss this and for this reason the debatte ends here, for me at least.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    Its just an assembly line (probably for SKD kits at that). Don't read too much into it. The F-35's ToT isn't being shared with anyone but that hasn't stopped the FACO lines from being created in Italy and Japan. IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.
    The export director makes it sound like a lot more than an assembly line:

    “Transferring technology is not a problem for us,” said Parker, “It is part of our day-job. What excites me is the potential I see in Indonesia for developing huge levels of indigenous capability around this opportunity..."

    but then I suppose that is really just marketing speak for "We will help you set up assembly processes".
    Sum ergo cogito

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post

    As such it's not seriously worth to even discuss this and for this reason the debatte ends here, for me at least.
    True, my apologies to have poluted the thread. Still interesting to understand how marketing affect the high end combat airplane market space, where decision are primarily made by governememental experts

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4,439
    The details are created at the lowest level, results reported to the next higher instance where information are consolidated and reported to the next higher instance and so forth. The higher infoemation flows the more compressed it gets and when arriving at top level it might be as simple as a green or red field on a chart. The other way round decisions made by top level will be routed down to the lowest level where once again solutions are worked out, before results of its implementation are reported back upwards. I don't think that such marketing has a significant impact on the decision making as there is simply to much money involved . An exception might be some dumb dictators who may make to decisions based on gut feelings overruling common sense.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion82 View Post
    The details are created at the lowest level, results reported to the next higher instance where information are consolidated and reported to the next higher instance and so forth. The higher infoemation flows the more compressed it gets and when arriving at top level it might be as simple as a green or red field on a chart. The other way round decisions made by top level will be routed down to the lowest level where once again solutions are worked out, before results of its implementation are reported back upwards. I don't think that such marketing has a significant impact on the decision making as there is simply to much money involved . An exception might be some dumb dictators who may make to decisions based on gut feelings overruling common sense.
    So marketing is primarily turned inward toward local tax payers and government electors , promoting the company competence for attracting investments,rather than outward toward customers to sell the products.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    4,439
    In this field where so much money is involved the clueless politicians will delegate the evaluation of products and services to those who know what's relevant and as such to those who don't take the marketing ploy as gospel. Arguably some strong words from the seller may serve as a first attention getter. There might nuances and differences from country to country and often enough political and economical considerations will eventually override anything else.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,550
    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.
    Err.. when was the Damocles finally integrated on the Rafale and when did the company start marketing it as the world's only 'omni-role' fighter? No reason for EF not to market a configuration that they'll achieve only by 2018.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Eurofighter tried to copy Dassault's marketing, but wound up advertising the "Omnishambles Fighter".

    (I kid, I kid. F-35 is the Omnishambles Fighter, obviously.)
    Hmm.. I was kind of hoping LM would be nasty about it and market the F-35 as a 'serial-killer-of-Eurocanards'. Applies both to air combat and the export market.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,320

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,762
    http://www.eurofighter.com/news-and-...ement-contract

    Eurofighter has today released details of a new capability contract valued at EUROS 200 million delivering a suite of new enhancements to the Eurofighter Typhoon.

    As well as introducing a number of upgrades to the Eurofighter’s mission and maintenance systems, the contract, known as Phase 3 Capability Enhancement, will equip the Eurofighter Typhoon to deploy multiple precision-guided air-to-surface weapons at fast-moving targets with low-collateral damage. It further confirms the aircraft’s full multi-role, swing-role capability.

    Details of the new enhancements were revealed at the IDEX defence exhibition in Abu Dhabi, today, Sunday 22nd February 2015, at a contract signing in the presence of Philip Dunne, UK Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, accompanied by Alberto Gutierrez, CEO of Eurofighter and Air-Vice Marshal Graham Farnell and representatives from the other Eurofighter customer nations: for Germany, General Erhard Bὔhler, Director Defence Plans & Policy; representing Italy, Lieutenant General Enzo Stefanini; and for Spain, Ministry of Defence, Secretary of State, Pedro Arguelles, all showing their support for this essential capability.

    Alberto Gutierrez, the CEO of Eurofighter, said: “This capability upgrade gives the Eurofighter Typhoon unrivalled full multi-role and swing-role capability. Although the prime focus is the introduction of the Brimstone 2 missile required by the UK RAF, P3E enhances the capabilities of the Storm Shadow long-range strike missile, the Meteor, Paveway IV and ASRAAM weapons, as well as introducing modifications to further improve the aircraft’s already impressive availability. Support for the contract will come from all four core nations and the enhancement package will benefit all who use it.”

    Air Vice-Marshal, Graham Farnell, the General Manager of NETMA (NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency), who signed the contract on behalf of the core customer nations, said: “Over the last 18 months the Eurofighter Typhoon community has enjoyed a significant acceleration to the weapon system capability enhancement programme and I am pleased to say we have been able to agree a number of major contracts which really drive the weapon system’s contribution to air power.”

    He said: “The agreement of the P3E contract is further evidence that this is a Programme which keeps on delivering. As the hugely successful Panavia Tornado moves towards the last decade of its life cycle, it is highly re-assuring to know that the mantle will be picked up by the Eurofighter Typhoon. Brimstone 2 capability is both a unique and welcome addition to the capability portfolio, and whilst it is just a part of the P3E story, Brimstone represents an extremely important capability to have.”

    The four nation contract between the UK, Italy, Germany and Spain will form the basis for the next major Eurofighter enhancement, the Phase 4 Capability Enhancement contract, now in its ‘definition phase’. This will lay the foundation for the Nations’ Combat Air capability requirements into the next decade.

    The Phase 3 Enhancement contract is scheduled for delivery in 2017. All four core nations will work on flight control and avionics and the contract will centre round a scheduled programme of weapon testing, the development and testing of flight control systems, and finally store clearing and store release testing. The initial fit for the Brimstone 2 missiles on the Eurofighter will see two launchers fitted to the outboard pylons of the Eurofighter each carrying three Brimstone 2 missiles.

    The full swing-role, multi-role weapons compliment on the Eurofighter could now include a mix of: six Brimstone 2 missiles; up to six Paveway IV bombs, two long-range Storm Shadow missiles, four Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and either two IRIS-T or two ASRAAM heat-seeking missiles.

    This weapons package, combined with the high-kinetic performance and super cruise capability of the platform and AESA radar now being integrated onto the platform, confirms Eurofighter as the world’s most versatile fast-jet fighter.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    True, my apologies to have poluted the thread. Still interesting to understand how marketing affect the high end combat airplane market space, where decision are primarily made by governememental experts
    One of my experiences with such governmental expert from few years ago - he has sworn they have decided to pick an Agusta A109 for their application mainly because it was "proven Swiss-quality". In the ca fifteen minutes with him I was completely unable to persuade him that the bird was actually Italian-made.
    Last edited by MSphere; 23rd April 2015 at 08:59.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,320
    More images of the Typhoon painted in the Battle of Britain 75th anniversary scheme.

    http://www.globalaviationresource.co...-breaks-cover/

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,361
    So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?

    Nic

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas10 View Post
    So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?
    With Hakenkreuz on the fin.. gosh, that would be a scandal

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,762

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas10 View Post
    So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?

    Nic
    Or a little moustache?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere View Post
    With Hakenkreuz on the fin
    Considering how many GERMANs fought against the NAZIs (or were just murdered by them) probably not, eh?
    Rule zero: don't be on fire

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,762
    The Germans won't even call them 'Typhoons'.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,762
    http://www.eurofighter.com/downloads/TecGuide.pdf

    Page 21

    RARAR CROSS SECTION (RCS)
    REDUCTION

    People often consider that RCS is an absolute
    – you are either stealthy or you not. This is not
    the case. There are fighters with a relatively
    large RCS like the F-15 and Flanker; at the other
    end of the scale the F-22. Eurofighter
    Typhoon and Gripen sit somewhere in the middle,
    with high composite structures giving a
    balanced relatively low RCS but stores mounted
    externally. But what many do not realise is
    that one of the principle reflectors back to an
    enemy aircraft is your own fighter antenna.
    When we look at a fighter jet what we see
    is an aerodynamic masterpiece: a sleek nose;
    a wafer thin profile, and the reflection of many
    hours of work by thousands of talented people.
    That’s not what an enemy radar sees.
    Consider that the aircraft nose is designed to
    be completely invisible to radar. It has to be,
    for the aircraft’s radar to work. What their
    radar sees is, more often than not, a huge reflection
    straight back off an antenna pointed
    straight at them.
    Think of it like this and, instantly, you have
    a different image of the world of fighter-jets –
    each flying around with a massive reflector on
    the front saying ‘I’m here, shoot me first!’
    Now many of the most recent AESA antennas
    are tilted up or down 30° from the horizontal.
    As a result, most of an enemy radar’s
    incoming energy is harmlessly reflected away
    from the enemy aircraft. This gives a big reduction
    in effective RCS.

    Examples where the AESA antenna is still
    mounted vertically are either older designs (F-
    15), or aircraft whose nose size only enables a
    smaller antenna (F-16 and Rafale).
    If you already
    have a small antenna an additional 15%
    reduction in power (roughly the loss to the
    aperture at 30°) to achieve an RCS reduction
    is probably a poor pay-off.
    For Eurofighter Typhoon this is not an issue,
    our antenna is big enough to mount well
    over 1400 TRM’s on a large swash-plate.
    Now you might think that a big reflector
    may make us vulnerable. Well it would do if
    the swash-plate didn’t allow us to angle the
    plate to minimise its profile to enemy eyes.
    None of our serious competitors with a decent
    sized antenna, are able to move their radar arrays.
    They are fixed, usually at about 30° facing
    upwards and forwards - the usual position
    for a fixed plate AESA radar.
    Ours though has a unique range of movement
    on the swash-plate which maximises its
    effectiveness and which can minimize vulnerability.
    You need to consider that we now
    have a large moveable radar array which has
    significant reach and which has the best field
    of regard of any radar out there. It gives us a
    major advantage.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Sarum
    Posts
    4,359
    I don't know that posting facts from Eurofighter lovers monthy counts as adding much to the topic other than flamebate.

    Now if they can tell us about all the other RCS reduction measures built into the aircraft rather than a badly written piece of PR material, that would add something.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES