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Thread: USAF T-X

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    If the US Air Force will decide on the basis of technology and performance the partnership between Northrop Grumman/Raytheon AND Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries will most definitely win.

    SNC/TAI's Freedom Trainer offers more technology and is able to withstand more G's than its competitors.
    Any source for that ?

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakobS View Post
    Any source for that ?
    An official announcement should be made soon.

    The Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries joint-venture will enter into a partnership with 2 other Defence giants.

  3. #573
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    One of them has to be Stavatti, surely
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    SNC/TAI's Freedom Trainer offers more technology
    To whom? The USAF?!
    A jet trainer offers "more technology"?!!!


    LOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    and is able to withstand more G's than its competitors.
    Not a chance, not with a pair of FJ44-4M´s.
    Last edited by Sintra; 17th March 2017 at 17:53.

  5. #575
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    And details of the 2 other Defence giants have been made public.

    Turkish Aerospace Industries sources have announced (http://c4defence.com/Gundem/tainin-a...guluyor/4019/1) that the Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries Joint-Venture is currently discussing a new project model with "Raytheon" and Airbus's US Subsidiary "Airbus Americas" for the "Freedom Trainer".

    Thus a joint-venture between TAI/SNC/Raytheon/Airbus intend to enter the US T-X tender with the "Freedom Trainer".

    Sounds like a winner to me.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    And details of the 2 other Defence giants have been made public.

    Turkish Aerospace Industries sources have announced (http://c4defence.com/Gundem/tainin-a...guluyor/4019/1) that the Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries Joint-Venture is currently discussing a new project model with "Raytheon" and Airbus's US Subsidiary "Airbus Americas" for the "Freedom Trainer".

    Thus a joint-venture between TAI/SNC/Raytheon/Airbus intend to enter the US T-X tender with the "Freedom Trainer".

    Sounds like a winner to me.
    Still zero chance. There are 2.5 serious contenders here. BTX, T-50, and M346, all three of which are flying at the moment. Both Lockheed and Boeing intend on bidding with full option to transfer their two aircraft over the program.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 21st March 2017 at 12:42.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  7. #577
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    http://www.kokpit.aero/tai-snc-tx-ihalesi

    According to Turkish sources SNC/TAI will have new partner Airbus USA and Raytheon for Freedom Trainer.

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocay84 View Post
    http://www.kokpit.aero/tai-snc-tx-ihalesi

    According to Turkish sources SNC/TAI will have new partner Airbus USA and Raytheon for Freedom Trainer.
    Wait till the prototype is complete in a few months time and pilots see the technology on board. SNC/TAI have set the bar up really high as newcomers.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    ... Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries will most definitely win.

    SNC/TAI's Freedom Trainer offers more technology and is able to withstand more G's than its competitors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Wait till the prototype is complete in a few months time and pilots see the technology on board. SNC/TAI have set the bar up really high as newcomers.
    What are you basing this statement on? At the moment it is still a paper plane, so what are you quoting? What is your source for the specifics that neither SNC or TAI has published?
    Latencia Profecionalis

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocay84 View Post
    http://www.kokpit.aero/tai-snc-tx-ihalesi

    According to Turkish sources SNC/TAI will have new partner Airbus USA and Raytheon for Freedom Trainer.
    Why would the US reward Turkey with anything, after Turkey accuses the US of staging the coup last year?

  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1pp0 View Post
    What are you basing this statement on? At the moment it is still a paper plane, so what are you quoting? What is your source for the specifics that neither SNC or TAI has published?
    Also worth noting that the decision to select one vendor is expected to happen in the summer/fall timeframe this year.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post

    Sounds like a winner to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    If the US Air Force will decide on the basis of technology and performance the partnership between Northrop Grumman/Raytheon AND Sierra Nevada Corporation/Turkish Aerospace Industries will most definitely win.

    SNC/TAI's Freedom Trainer offers more technology and is able to withstand more G's than its competitors.
    Not sure on what You base Your optimism??? First of all You compare a paper-project under consideration by a team, that so far build NOTHING, not a single flying prototype nor anything comparable on what anyone can project NC/TAI is anyway able to be successful.
    Even more the other two contenders both have already two prototypes in the air, both have a vast experience in developing and manufacturing airplanes and by the way … I still miss an official confirmation of that strange joint-venture. By the way given Mr. Erdogan’s latest political Tourette syndrome-like insults against nearly all democratic European states I cannot believe that any on them would agree a cooperation with Airbus's US Subsidiary.

    IMO this project is and will remain a wet-dream like the TF-X too.

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    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

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    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
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    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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  13. #583
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    There is a prototype in production as stated by Aviation Week. See http://aviationweek.com/defense/sier...om-trainer-t-x

    A full version of the article was reproduced here before.

    The political spat between Europe and Turkey has nothing to do with Turkish companies doing business with European counterparts. In any event they are of mutual interest and benefit to each other.

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    There is a prototype in production as stated by Aviation Week. See http://aviationweek.com/defense/sier...om-trainer-t-x

    A full version of the article was reproduced here before.

    The political spat between Europe and Turkey has nothing to do with Turkish companies doing business with European counterparts. In any event they are of mutual interest and benefit to each other.
    The timelines for the prototype are way off. Lockheed, Boeing and Northrop all timed their prototypes just right for a program that would have down-selected by March-May of 2017..Since the initial plans the time frame has shifted to the right by a couple of months on account of a late RFP release since it was pending approval from the OSD (clearance issues). Both Boeing and Lockheed intend on offering their 2 prototypes (each) as part of the 5 required for the EMD phase of the program.

    What use is of a prototype if it does nothing to de-risk the proposal vs competitors that have been flying theirs since before RFP release?

    Again paper aircraft that may result in a prototype that may or may not fly before the contract is awarded. No details of specifications claiming superior performance have been provided.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 22nd March 2017 at 14:44.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  15. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by bring_it_on View Post
    The timelines for the prototype are way off. Lockheed, Boeing and Northrop all timed their prototypes just right for a program that would have down-selected by March-May of 2017..Since the initial plans the time frame has shifted to the right by a couple of months on account of a late RFP release since it was pending approval from the OSD (clearance issues). Both Boeing and Lockheed intend on offering their 2 prototypes (each) as part of the 5 required for the EMD phase of the program.

    What use is of a prototype if it does nothing to de-risk the proposal vs competitors that have been flying theirs since before RFP release?

    Again paper aircraft that may result in a prototype that may or may not fly before the contract is awarded. No details of specifications claiming superior performance have been provided.
    SNC/TAI have been developing the Freedom Trainer since 2009.

    The Freedom trainer is not being solely developed for the US market but is being pitched to the Turkish Air Force and Royal Australian Air Force.

  16. #586
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    SNC/TAI have been developing the Freedom Trainer since 2009.
    How many flying prototypes have they flown in the last 8 years and if so, how much flight data will they present in order to de-risk their design and proposal? It is even stranger that they have been at it for 8 years and yet have no flying prototype in preparation for the largest advanced trainer competition in decades.

    The Freedom trainer is not being solely developed for the US market but is being pitched to the Turkish Air Force and Royal Australian Air Force.
    Good luck with the RAAF.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  17. #587
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    Leonardo preparing itself mentally to lose the T-X competition

    Leonardo fears US domestic politics will scupper its T-X chances

  18. #588
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    That guy need some rest.

  19. #589
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    It looks like Leonardo will be withdrawing too.

  20. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    It looks like Leonardo will be withdrawing too.
    http://aviationweek.com/defense/rayt...wer-cost-t-100

    Offcourse they are...

  21. #591
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    Spin aside, not having a US prime actually hurts them. Had their earlier partnerships kept on they could have had at least one aircraft up in the air with some of the proposed modifications just like Lockheed has with the T-50 vis-a-vis dry refueling.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  22. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by bring_it_on View Post
    Spin aside, not having a US prime actually hurts them.
    Massively, i think that their chances are pretty much nill, this seems a straight fight between LM and Boeing.

  23. #593
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    The good point for their marketing would be if they somehow managed to sneak b/w the two. I think that just this could justify the necessary investment to do some slight perf increase (something that has denied Moretti).

    Not everyone will favor the US trainer in the future and b/w the absence of any other non-italian Eu alternative and the Russian and Sino airframe, there might be a significant market to size given the proper incentive of an honorable 2nd place in the T-X competition.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 24th March 2017 at 21:18.

  24. #594
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    Textron AirLand to forgo T-X bid with Scorpion Jet: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...r-scorpion-jet

    Textron says although the Scorpion Jet is good it does not fulfil the US Air Force requirements for the T-X program.

  25. #595
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    Yes, certainly the "american" proposals are way off of any export potential, so if Leonardo is convinced of not having any concrete possibility in the US tender why to waste money into refining a product that would still have the upper hand in any other contract as it actually is?

  26. #596
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    US will never ever buy/import the Master.

    1st. Its not produced in US.
    2nd. Its a Yak design.
    3rd. Its not a US design.
    4th. Its not produced in US.

    We all understand how this will end. USAF will have to pay a much higher cost for their T-X over the Master.
    Thanks

  27. #597
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    Afterburner take off. Video :- https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/st...40516429021191
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  28. #598
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    That's a lovely video! I'm really crossing my fingers on this one.

  29. #599
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    Boeing first out of blocks with T-X proposal



    Boeing has become the first competitor to submit to the US Air Force (USAF) its proposal for the service's fighter trainer replacement programme (T-X), the company announced on 30 March.

    In a tweet stating it was 'turning up the heat!", Boeing said it had submitted its proposal for the USAF's Advanced Pilot Training (APT) Family of Systems (FoS) programme, as T-X is officially known, early. No further details were disclosed.

    Developed with Saab, the clean-sheet Boeing offering for T-X is a twin-seat single-engined platform that features a 'glass' cockpit modelled to resemble that of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, and an open systems architecture. It appears to incorporate elements from both the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Saab Gripen combat aircraft. Dubbed BTX, the aircraft's first flight was conducted out of Boeing's St Louis facility in Missouri on 20 December 2016.

    With Boeing's submission now with the USAF, pitches from the other competitors are expected in the coming days. Besides Boeing and Saab, the T-X requirement is being competed by Lockheed Martin and Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) with the T-50A (a derivative of the T-50 Golden Eagle), and by Leonardo DRS with the T-100 (a derivative of the M-346 Master). A team comprising Sierra Nevada Corporation and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is also reported to be developing a clean-sheet design, while US company Stavatti says it will offer its Javelin clean-sheet design.

    Textron has discounted its Scorpion jet, which was previously rumoured to be a possible contender, while on 1 February the Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems team announced that it would not compete for the requirement, despite having been photographed testing its Model 400 clean-sheet design in August last year.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  30. #600
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    The 2nd BTX is getting ready for its first flight

    Last edited by bring_it_on; 21st April 2017 at 00:07.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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