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Thread: Turkish aerospace

  1. #121
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    Bayar,

    thank you for your precise, detailed, logical, valuable and well-argued information.

    Geo

  2. #122
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    This is an official rendition released by Turkish Aerospace Industries. A full model will be displayed this week at IDEF 2017.
    P.S. That is not a roundel but a stamp for marketing purposes.
    Why don't you provide a source then.

    Here it is: https://www.tai.com.tr/tr/basin-bult...ile-yer-alacak
    So it's official. But the quality/level of detail is poor in some areas, looks like it's from a cheap video game. Hopefully the full model will be better.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  3. #123
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    Well, needless to say, Turks will have to try to prove themselves.. The skepticism is understandable and it will not have gone away that easily. It is clear as day that domestic demand alone will not have covered all those projects and that ME oil money will have to flow in.. so far there are 5 Anka UAV built with 12 more on order.. some 50 T129s are on order.. few Altay prototypes with none ordered thus far.. four Istanbul-class frigates.. there is much going on but numbers are quite modest as of yet and most of those multi-billion deals are just promises as we speak.. time will tell..

  4. #124
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    bayar

    question

    is Erdogan a jedi or a sith?

  5. #125
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    Yes Turkey is extremely slow in commissioning its own platforms. It usually take 5 to 10 years to see a Turkish platform in the Turkish Armed Forces in inventory. However, this is because the TAF do not procure anything until it goes through lengthy testing and acceptance periods. EASA Approval also takes time for Turkish Aerial Platforms. One must note Turkish UAV's can operate in Civilian Air space.

    So far 20 T-129 have entered service. Over 1000 APC's, 50 Bayraktar TB2 UAV's, 10 ANKA-A UAVs, 4 Istanbul class corvettes/frigates, 2 TCG Bayraktar class LST's, 300 self-propelled howitzers etc. Many many other projects are in the pipeline. This years IDEF 2017 will be an eyeopener.

    Turkey has over 200 UAV's on order in various configurations. The most recent being the armed ANKA below. Turkey also intends to procure 40 Hurkus-C COIN aircraft for counter-insurgency efforts. The FLIR/Targeting system, SAR Radars, SATCOM, Engine (TEI PD-170) are all produced in Turkey by ASELSAN and TUSAS Engine Industries. The weapons used by the UAV's are also Roketsan design and produced.




    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Bayar; 6th May 2017 at 04:17.

  6. #126
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    Perhaps the most ambitious project of the Turkish Defense Industry is the CAFRAD Multifunction, Active Phased Array Radar System (400km range) and the ASELSAN EIRS long-range S-band Early Warning Radar (700km range).

    See http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...completed.html

    These radar systems are strategic radar systems critical to Turkey's layered air defense system and an indicator of how far Turkey has come in terms of technology. Not many countries can produce AESA GaN T/R modules.


    The CAFRAD and EIRS is intended to form the back bone of Turkey's Medium and High Altitude Air Defense System. Turkey has currently signed an agreement with Russia for the co-production of high altitude air defense missiles based on the S-400 ABM. Turkey intends to integrate its own IFF and Radar systems with the S-400.






    Now you might be wondering why I am mentioning this on the TF-X thread. Well I want to illustrate why Turkey is investing in the TF-X and similar programs. Some members on here have said it is just to address rising nationalism. I would ask you this question: Would the US or other Western manufacturers sell this type of strategic level radar system to any country in the Middle East or Africa? That is, would US Congress allow the sale of this equipment abroad? E.g. The US and allies will not sell advanced systems to Pakistan so as to not change the balance of power between Pakistan and India. Same applies to Taiwan/China, Azerbaijan/Armenia, Greece/Macedonia etc Well this is precisely the market Turkey is aiming form- countries which cannot procure advanced weapons systems due to the inability to obtain end-user certificates etc.
    Last edited by Bayar; 6th May 2017 at 04:15.

  7. #127
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    You only show one armed UAV per picture with only two missiles and not clear how much range and sortie generation it can achieve with that paltry two missiles per uav .

  8. #128
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    The TAI Anka is not solely an armed UAV platform. It is a modular UAV system which is capable of many mission profiles. It is classed as an advanced Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) Unmanned Aerial System that performs day and night, all-weather reconnaissance, target detection / identification/ illumination and intelligence missions with its EO/IR and SAR payloads, featuring autonomous flight capability including Automatic Take-off and Landing in addition to its armed combat role.

    CHARACTERISTICS

    Wing Span : 17.3m
    Length : 8m
    Powerplant : Heavy fuel engine (155 hp)/ TEI TD170 (170 hp)
    Payload Capacity : 200kg (full endurance)/ 500 kg (with TEI PD170)
    Power 9kW

    PERFORMANCE

    Endurance : 24 hours
    Service ceiling : 30,000ft (MSL) (with Thielert Centurion turbocharged engine) / 40,000 ft (With TEI PD170 engine)
    Data range : 200km (Line of Sight), SATCOM version- Unlimited

    MISSION CAPABILITIES

    Day and night, all weather ISR mission capabilities with EO/IR/LD/LRF and SAR/ISAR/GMTI payloads
    Fixed or moving target tracking capability
    ATC radio relay over datalink
    On-board data recording capability
    Expansion capabilities including SATCOM, SIGINT & communications relay
    Remote Video Terminal option

    SYSTEM FEATURES

    Fully automous operation
    Dual-redundant flight control system
    Dual-redundant automatic takeoff and landing system
    Dual-redundant electrical power generation
    Dual-redundant high data rate digital datalink
    Electro-expulsive ice protection system
    C-130 Transportability
    Easy to Maintain

    CONTROL STATION FEATURES

    NATO compliant ACEIII type shelter
    STANAG 4586 compliant
    Redundant command and control consoles
    Mission planning, management, simulation and playback capabilities
    User-friendly MMI
    External C4I Interfaces
    IMARSAT/TURKSAT (Satcom versions)



    The TAI Anka (with TEI TD179) can carry 2 Missile mounts (4 missiles each) on a hard-point under each wing.



    President Erdogan's Son-in-laws company is also working on a Turbo-fan engined HALE concept.

    Last edited by Bayar; 6th May 2017 at 12:38.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    So far 20 T-129 have entered service
    I have doubts about that number.. So far the latest airframe I have seen was the AG15-1013.

  10. #130
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    20 had been delivered as at February 2017. Another 20 is planned for this year: http://www.c4defence.com/Gundem/20-t...-edildi/4138/1

    The Turkish Police Force is also acquiring 9 T-129's for use against PKK in Eastern Turkey: http://www.kokpit.aero/polise-atak-helikopter


  11. #131
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    20 T129s produced or 20 T129s in service? Keep in mind there were 6 prototypes..

  12. #132
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    Produced, Delivered and Accepted. It will be smooth sailing from now on because development of all the features were complete at begining of this year. The video above was the acceptance ceremony by the Turkish Armed Forces.

    Even the Meteksan MILDAR FCR is being installed on them.





    Fully capable T-129


  13. #133
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    Why again a Turkish thread ??? ... even more even if originally started as a TF-X topic it now again circles on UAVs, T-129, and so on.

    Come on ...
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  14. #134
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    We are having a nice discussion. If it bores you ignore the thread rather than seek to suppress the conversation.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    Produced, Delivered and Accepted
    Got pics and codes of the T129 airframes #14-20?
    Thanks..

  16. #136
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    We are having a nice discussion. If it bores you ignore the thread rather than seek to suppress the conversation.
    Not really but since the topic is at least title-wise related to the TF-X I'm indeed annoyed that You always bring in each and every other Turkish product like small trainers, COIN-birds, UAVs and so on.

    Or is it too difficult to stay on topic ?
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  17. #137
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    What's going on, Deino?

    Go on, Bayar, it's very beneficial discussion and interesting reading!

  18. #138
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    Then ask a mod to rename the thread so it's about general Turkish air force/military aviation rather than only about TF-X.

    Or create another thread about general Turkish air force/military aviation matters, and leave this thread specifically for TF-X related posts.

    I think that's what Deino is getting at -- to ask to stay on topic.

  19. #139
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    we had a dedicated Turkish thread because of her, but Bayar refuses to post in it lol

  20. #140
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    Now you might be wondering why I am mentioning this on the TF-X thread. Well I want to illustrate why Turkey is investing in the TF-X and similar programs. Some members on here have said it is just to address rising nationalism. I would ask you this question: Would the US or other Western manufacturers sell this type of strategic level radar system to any country in the Middle East or Africa? That is, would US Congress allow the sale of this equipment abroad? E.g. The US and allies will not sell advanced systems to Pakistan so as to not change the balance of power between Pakistan and India. Same applies to Taiwan/China, Azerbaijan/Armenia, Greece/Macedonia etc Well this is precisely the market Turkey is aiming form- countries which cannot procure advanced weapons systems due to the inability to obtain end-user certificates etc.
    wait, so you said tfx main advantage over fc-31 is that it has nato parts, and yet you say western countries wont sell you anything lol.
    which is it.

    although the fact of the matter is, turkeys days of ever joining the eu are gone. its days in nato are probably going to be gone, turkey chose to join the russian and chinese sphere.
    tf-x will probably have some rd-33s engines or ws-10s in the end.. although it'd be cheaper to just license produce the fc-31

  21. #141
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    I think you are missing the point Y-20. Actually there are no third-party NATO country "parts" in the TF-X. Had there been Turkey would still need third-party export certificates to sell the TF-X to 3rd parties. It would defeat the whole purpose of having an indigenous combat aircraft program of your own.

    You also dont understand what NATO STAGNAGS are. These are a set of standards which are universal to all NATO Member States. Any platform that conforms to NATO Stagnags means that it can be used by any NATO member State. There are currently 1,200 STANAGs promulgated in NATO. The NATO Standardization Office initiates, coordinates, supports and administers NATO standardization activities. Turkish Industry mainly produces military hardware according to these standards. It conducts its R&D based on these standards.

    Now addressing your political statements about Turkey: Turkey is neither pro-Russian or pro-NATO. Turkey is now Turkey-centric. It seeks to foster cordial relations with every member of the United Nations without compromising its own interests. What policy makers in Brussels and Washington do not understand is that Turkey is not picking Russia and China over NATO. Yes Turkey is fostering very close economic ties with China and Russia but it is also maintaining relations with NATO. Before blaming Turkey for fostering ties with Russia and China one needs to look in the mirror. E.g. the high altitude air defence system tender (T-LORAMIDS) is a good indicator of Turkey's current mentality. Turkey was ready able and willing to purchase either the US Patriots or EUROSAM systems for T-LORAMIDS. However, neither company offered Turkey ToT or offsets. Whereas, both China and Russia did. Naturally Turkey would opt for a company that offered ToT and Offsets.

    Turkey today is focusing on Turkey-cetric policies. It is infact for this reason that it is investing heavily on its defence industry. Because no country can attain independence from foreign influence or declare permanent neutrality unless it has a deterence factor. An indigenous high-tech arms industry enables you to display a self-centred foreign policy. Turkey new vision is to become the economic and diplomatic powerhouse of the Middle East (Islamic world), Central Asia (Turkish Republics) and Africa. The former territories of the Ottoman Empire. It wants to create a type of pax-Ottomana- one without invasion or imperialism. A region of economic and political influence.

    As for Turkey being booted out of NATO- it will never happen. A Turkey in NATO means a Turkey which the West has atleast some level of influence over. A Turkey out of NATO means Russia's Black Sea fleet criss-crossing the Mediteranean Sea and Chinese bases popping up throughout the Middle East in Turkey's areas of inflence. Removing Turkey from NATO is like pulling down the fences from your property.

  22. #142
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    Threads merged.

    Bayar, either you stick to one thread, or they will get deleted as they come.
    Regards,

    Frank

  23. #143
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    Here from the IDEF'17 ... TAI T-625 Utility Helicopter mock up unveiled.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  24. #144
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    As much as people might have trouble swallowing some of that, national threads (whether its Russia, China or Turkey) are driven by people who are passionate about the topic.

    Whether Erdogan is Palpatine is a moot point though.

  25. #145
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    As much as people might have trouble swallowing some of that, national threads (whether its Russia, China or Turkey) are driven by people who are passionate about the topic.

    Whether Erdogan is Palpatine is a moot point though.
    Yes, and I really appreciate that enthusiasm; I only don't like if peoples can't stick to the topic, do start a new thread for each and every news they deem important or always bash others on any critical comment.

    The worst point is that most of these enthusiasts too often are mixing enthusiasm and national pride with nationalism.


    Therefore like I said and the moderator more than once requested: a thread on that topic is more than interesting and well deserved - as such I'm very much thankful for Bayar's posts - but not all of them need a separate thread and not all critical question is a national rant against Turkey.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  26. #146
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    wait, so you said tfx main advantage over fc-31 is that it has nato parts, and yet you say western countries wont sell you anything lol.
    which is it.

    although the fact of the matter is, turkeys days of ever joining the eu are gone. its days in nato are probably going to be gone, turkey chose to join the russian and chinese sphere.
    tf-x will probably have some rd-33s engines or ws-10s in the end.. although it'd be cheaper to just license produce the fc-31
    turkey can be outside Nato as its policy are totaly against Nato. Turkey trying to export its weopon systems that are competition and Turkey open base in Qatar. The more Turkey suck Arab money into wars the less money avaiable for procurement in Arab countries.
    and there tremendous increase in Turkey population and that is reflected in gas consumption when you look at Turkey consumption size. who knows how many people reside in Turkey. This both market for Germanic goods and Turkey as supplier for household goods.

    http://russianconstruction.com/news-...key-by-25.html
    Russian Gazprom increases gas supplies to Turkey by 25%

  27. #147
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    Hi Deino. I agree with you. The Rafale thread would not exist were it not for a peculiar blend of national pride and aviation enthusiasm. I just find it interesting that Bayar appears to have prompted a lot of advanced criticism because he is suggesting that Turkey might be able to produce it's own UAVs, weapons and aircraft.

    I'm not sure about the New Ottoman Region he speaks of, but from an aviation point of view, the programmes are all very interesting and lets face it, some European countries could do with a deal more enthusiasm when it comes to defence procurement.

  28. #148
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    Agreed !
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  29. #149
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    I'm not sure about the New Ottoman Region he speaks of, but from an aviation point of view, the programmes are all very interesting and lets face it, some European countries could do with a deal more enthusiasm when it comes to defence procurement.
    Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying Turkey is seeking to re-create the Ottoman Empire. This would be absurd and unrealistic. What I am trying to say is that Turkey is seeking to create an economic union of former Ottoman States similar to the Commonwealth of Nations created by the United Kingdom.

  30. #150
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    I think you are missing the point Y-20. Actually there are no third-party NATO country "parts" in the TF-X. Had there been Turkey would still need third-party export certificates to sell the TF-X to 3rd parties. It would defeat the whole purpose of having an indigenous combat aircraft program of your own.
    nah man
    Pakistan can export the fc-1 themselves w/o china. so can turkey if it went fc-31.
    besides, Turkey's economy is the same size as Mexico. you guys can't produce everything on your own. you will need assistance from China to develop things.
    half Turkey' stuff are from Korea anyways.

    Turkey today is focusing on Turkey-cetric policies. It is infact for this reason that it is investing heavily on its defence industry. Because no country can attain independence from foreign influence or declare permanent neutrality unless it has a deterence factor. An indigenous high-tech arms industry enables you to display a self-centred foreign policy. Turkey new vision is to become the economic and diplomatic powerhouse of the Middle East (Islamic world), Central Asia (Turkish Republics) and Africa. The former territories of the Ottoman Empire. It wants to create a type of pax-Ottomana- one without invasion or imperialism. A region of economic and political influence.
    well then I wish you luck in your goals of peacefully dominating Greece, the ex USSR republics, and western China

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