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Thread: Turkish aerospace

  1. #301
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    A good summary of the current Turkish Defence Industry

  2. #302
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    Sure.. I never said they had to, or anything.. but Russia offers the hardware tied to Ruble prices.. this way, KazAF were able to obtain their fresh Su-30SM right from the batches originally intended for the VKS at prices close to what Russians pay (1.2 bil RUB each, AFAIK).

  3. #303
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    Some great insight into ASELSAN and its export markets.

    E.g. Aselsan is developing a new flight and mission management system called Integrated Modular Avionics System, [or IMAS], with indigenously developed hardware and software which will be exported to the US for use in all S-70i International Black Hawk helicopters.

    Interview: Aselsan CEO Faik Eken talks Turkey’s indigenous programs, corporate plans
    By: Burak Ege Bekdil, April 23, 2017 (Photo Credit: Aselsan)
    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...orporate-plans

    To many outsiders, Aselsan is the Turkish response to arms embargoes imposed on the country by its NATO allies in the aftermath of an armed conflict in Cyprus in 1974. The company, however, grew exponentially — especially in the past decade thanks to its central role in most of Turkey’s ambitious programs to design, develop and produce indigenous systems.

    With its strong backlog, rising sales and soaring earnings, the company seeks bigger business in foreign markets. Already listed as Turkey’s largest defense company and steadily rising on Defense News' Top 100 list of the world's leading defense companies, Aselsan CEO Faik Eken hopes to see the company in the top 50. Eken offered his take on corporate plans and some of Turkey’s most critical indigenous programs in an interview with Defense News Turkey correspondent Burak Ege Bekdil.

    What was the driving force behind Aselsan’s solid earnings performance in 2016? What is the profit estimate for 2017? Where do you expect to see Aselsan on this year’s Top 100 list? And the same by 2023?
    Our strong backlog, continuously diversifying product/system portfolio and capital management policies were the main growth drivers in 2016. We do not see any downside risks to that going forward. We expect at least 25 percent revenue growth (on Turkish lira [currency] basis) in 2017 with a sustainable EBITDA [earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization] margin of 18-20 percent. With this perspective we hope to climb a few steps up this year and we hope to catch the defense revenue, which is sufficient to make us one of the first 50 companies, by 2023.

    How international does Aselsan plan to go in the next five years? Any further plans for partnerships/subsidiaries or acquisitions abroad?

    In the next five years we are eager to expand our global reputation and market share especially in Middle East, Far East Asia and Latin America. Aselsan forms partnerships both for market-scale expansion and creating productive synergies. Aselsan has established four joint ventures: Kazakhstan Aselsan Engineering in Astana; Aselsan Middle East in Amman, [Jordan]; IGG Aselsan Integrated Systems in Abu Dhabi, [United Arab Emirates]; and Saudi Arabian Defense and Electronics Company in Riyadh. We are in the process of forming Aselsan Malaysia, and we are evaluating opportunities in Qatar as well. In addition, Aselsan aims at acquisitions in order to gain acceleration in terms of adapting critical technologies in its field of activities.
    What precise role will Aselsan take up in the Altay indigenous Turkish tank program?

    Aselsan is the main supplier for the mission-critical subsystems including fire control system, electrical gun and turret drives, battlefield management system (including tactical radios and intercom), remote weapon station, laser warning receiver system, battlefield target identification device, driver’s sight system, and active protection system in the Altay program. Aselsan is not only located at the heart of the Altay program but also is an active player in [the] world’s main battle tank modernization market.

    What is the scope of Aselsan ’s work with Sikorsky in the Turkish utility helicopter program?

    In [the] Turkish utility helicopter program, Aselsan is developing a new flight and mission management system called Integrated Modular Avionics System, [or IMAS], with indigenously developed hardware and software. This architecture that is the product of a creative and innovative design approach will not only be used on T70 helicopters but also be flying on S-70i International Black Hawk helicopters that will be marketed around the world.

    Sikorsky will procure 164 sets of IMAS in addition to Turkish utility helicopter program. In this regard, Sikorsky and Aselsan’s mutual target is to utilize this hardware and software in global helicopter modernization programs.

    In what ways does Aselsan plan to work with U.S. companies in its radar programs?

    As you may know, in recent years Aselsan has been tasked to develop indigenous, new-generation [active electronically scanned array] radar systems including the ÇAFRAD phased array, non-rotating, multi-function naval radar suite and [the] EIRS long-range S-band radar product family for Turkish Armed Forces. We are very keen to collaborate with foreign companies, especially to expand our export market for the radars. We believe that Aselsan can provide [International Traffic in Arms Regulations]-free, cost-effective, tailored radar and microwave solutions to U.S. companies for their sales to the third countries.

    Any major civilian programs based on Aselsan ’s experience in defense and other electronics?

    Aselsan activities besides defense technologies are mainly in transportation, security, energy control, traffic management and medical electronics areas. One of our key projects in the security field is the KGYS (Safe City Management System), which is a large, Turkish grid in 80 cities and 900 districts encompassing extensive video analytics capabilities.

    Aselsan has a leading role in Turkey in toll systems spanning from conventional, plaza-based systems to multi-lane, free-flow electronic tolling. Additionally, traction systems for electrical and railway vehicles, vehicle management systems, and alike are other prominent projects where Aselsan is cooperating with accepted and existing platform suppliers.

    Which countries would likely be Aselsan ’s top export markets in the next five to 10 years?

    Middle East is the main export market for Aselsan today and will most probably be the premier export market over the next 10 years. However, all the global market is under the focus of our company.

    What is the current stage in Aselsan ’s work to develop long-range air and anti-missile defense systems? What role(s) could Aselsan take up if Turkey decides to buy the system from foreign suppliers?

    In addition to the ongoing air defense projects such as KORKUT, HİSAR, ÇAFRAD, EWRS and HERİKKS, Aselsan has been working on various research and development activities for further studies on ballistic missile defense with [state-controlled missile maker] Roketsan's cooperation, ready to develop an indigenous long-range air and missile defense system.

    What role does Aselsan see for itself in Turkey’s space efforts?

    Aselsan is one of the main actors in space-related activities in Turkey. While taking advantage of our existing capabilities, we intend to invest more in designing and developing new indigenous and competitive satellite communication and observation payloads. Aselsan sees space technologies as an important pillar for our nation’s scientific and technological development. Our pioneering development on space technologies will provide extra benefit to other industry partners, universities, government organizations and also our citizens.

    What are Aselsan ’s “priority” programs with a prospective view?

    Aselsan’s “priority” programs to be started in the near future are air defense system modernization program, standoff jammer, long-range air defense missile system, MILGEM I-class corvette, Turkish Fighter Aircraft Development (TF-X) and Altay tank serial production.

  4. #304
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    Aselsan has only 5000 employees and barely a $1b revenues. it either does not make much stuff or lower priced products.

    http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/abou...s/Default.aspx

  5. #305
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    You are unaware of ASELSAN's business structure- They are only R&D providers and project managers who outsource production to smaller Turkish companies. ASELSAN is a subsidiary of the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation. When you tally the entire workforce of the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation companies combined they have more than 150,000 staff.

    See http://www.tskgv.org.tr/getting-to-know-our-foundation/ (Watch the video on the foundation)
    Last edited by Bayar; 20th May 2017 at 17:26.

  6. #306
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    ASELSAN signs MoU to provide Antonov Antonov An-148 family of aircraft western standard avionics: http://www.janes.com/article/70255/i...ft-electronics
    Last edited by Bayar; 20th May 2017 at 17:16.

  7. #307
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    i was only concentrating on electronics part. total 150,000 is very small because it will include small arms to metullargy/steel/shipbuilding/ software developers.

    Almaz Antey alone has 100k working over industrial chain in 2014
    http://www.almaz-antey.ru/355/

    all those high skilled workers are producing unique slow paced revenue generating products for limited government market that is lost oppurtunity in civilian sectors. Turkey neither has the money nor skill labor.

  8. #308
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    The numbers of employees for the driving companies of Turkish Armed Forces Foundation are rather modest: ASELSAN 5,400; TAI 5,200; ROCKETSAN 1,900; HAVELSAN 1,600; ASPILSAN 80; ISBIR 50.. That makes 14,230 in total, roughly as much as Swedish SAAB Aerospace..

    For comparison, IAI has 16k employees, Dassault 18k, EMBRAER 22k, HAL 32k, Leonardo-Finmeccanica 46k, Thales Group 67k, BAe Systems 83k, UAC 100k (Sukhoi Holding 27k), Lockheed 126k, Airbus 133k, Boeing 148k, Chinese AVIC 536k..
    Last edited by MSphere; 21st May 2017 at 08:41.

  9. #309
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    As I mentioned those companies are there mainly for R&D and Engineering. Production is outsourced to smaller companies. Turkish Defence Industry had 50,000 employees in the mid-1990's alone: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...u-industry.htm

    Below is a list of all the major Turkish Defence Companies. These companies also have smaller sub-contractors.

    Air platforms

    ALP
    BAYKAR
    GLOBAL
    KALE AERO
    Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI)
    TUSAS Engine Industries Inc. (TEI)
    TURKISH TECHNIC

    Battery and power systems

    ASPILSAN
    GENPOWER

    Electronic and software

    ASELSAN
    AYESAŞ
    EHSİM
    ESDAŞ
    GATE
    HTR
    MİKES
    NETAŞ
    SAVRONİK
    SELEX
    Transvaro
    TUBITAK-UEKAE
    Vestel
    YALTES
    YÜKSEK TEKNOLOJİ
    YÜKSEL SAVUNMA
    VENDEKA SAVUNMA

    Information technology

    C TECH
    HAVELSAN
    KOÇ SİSTEM
    KALETRON
    Meteksan Savunma
    MİLSOFT
    ONUR MUHENDISLIK
    STM

    Land platforms

    ASMAŞ
    BMC
    FNSS Defence Systems
    HEMA
    KOLUMAN
    MTU
    Nurol Holding
    Otokar

    Naval platforms

    ADIK
    DEARSAN
    Gölcük Naval Shipyard
    ISTANBUL SHIPYARD
    MILSYS SAVUNMA TEKNOLOJİLERİ
    Pendik Naval Shipyard
    RMK
    SEDEF
    YONCA-ONUK
    YILDIZ

    Rocket-missile ammunition

    BARIŞ
    GİRSAN
    MKEK
    ROKETSAN
    SARSILMAZ
    TAPASAN
    TİSAŞ
    Last edited by Bayar; 21st May 2017 at 14:26.

  10. #310
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    Roketsan introduces a thermobaric warhead for its Cirit 2.75″ Laser Guided Missile: http://www.janes.com/article/68711/r...tion-for-cirit
    http://en.azeridefence.com/cirit-goes-thermobaric/

  11. #311
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    And this isn't even the complete list, those companies have their own sub-contractors; Coşkunöz Aviation, Aycan avaiation, EJS Turbomak, LTG, ZET gearbox company, Arıkan Aviation, Hisarlar, Karcan, Hisarlar, Aydıngör Machinary, Busel tooling company, etc are among 18 companies member of ESAC, Eskişehir Aviation Cluster. They provide parts, components and design solutions to TEI...

  12. #312
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    Andraxxus it would take me a whole day to list all the smaller sub-contractors here.

    What is apt to mislead outsiders about the Turkish Defence Industry is the business model/structure. They don't realise that these companies merely provide R&D and engineering only and that the Turks break everything up amongst small companies. This leads people to think that a small company with 5,000 staff is developing trainer aircraft, attack helicopters, frigates etc.

    When the Turkish Ministry of Defence issues a tender for a new platform it first tenders out the development of a prototype by these R&D houses- which it then subjects to vigorous testing etc. Once the prototype passes acceptance tests the Ministry then issues another tender for full rate production. It usually divides the production of these platforms amongst several different private companies.

  13. #313
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    You should note that there is no "single" ASELSAN. Certain business groups of it, especially radar & EW (REHIS) and weapon system integration (SST) groups are very experienced in working with subcontractors (such as those in OSTIM industrial area), no surprise that these units are the most succesful ones both in terms of product performance and competitive power. But ASELSAN as a whole is far away from that vision (become an R&D center and integrator), hence the display of ASELSAN-produced directed energy weapon (good thing) and mission grip & joystick (bad thing); 3D long range air defense radar (good thing) and armored vehicle concept (bad thing) in the very same booth at IDEF.

  14. #314
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    Turkish Aerospace Industries is working with Bilkent University to develop Maneuver prediction methods via artificial neural networks in the TF-X.

  15. #315
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    Turkish Under secretariat for Defense Industries announces work on new "tilt-rotor aircraft": http://www.defencesector.com/en/turk...or-technology/

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    ASELSAN secures another export: Pakistan orders a further 16 ASELPOD Advanced Targeting and Navigation Pods for its JF-17 aircraft.

    The ASELPOD can simultaneously target, track and illuminate 4 targets at once and has a 3rd Gen. FLIR.

  17. #317
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    A great read on the Rolls-Royce/Turkey Partnership. What is more interesting is that it seems as though Rolls-Royce will also be supplying the small nuclear reactor technology for Turkey's future super carrier.

    British engineering and manufacturing giant Rolls-Royce, which has operations in key five sectors, will direct its focus toward Turkey’s defense and civil nuclear industries in the near term while prioritizing knowledge transfer, a top company representative has told the Hürriyet Daily News.

    Patrick Regis, Rolls-Royce’s regional director for Turkey and Central Asia, said Turkey’s indigenous fighter jet TF-X project was the number-one project for the company at present but that small modular nuclear reactors (SMRs) would follow in the future.

    The company has a unique position in Turkey, which “has a developing demand for every one of the five sectors in which Rolls-Royce is involved,” Regis said.

    The company operates in civil aerospace, defense aerospace, marine, nuclear and power systems.

    “What is key for Turkey is that every one of these businesses is very engaged and this is very unusual for a country in which we are operating. India and China have a huge scale. Turkey does not have this scale or volume, but it has a very specific demand. That is exactly what we can offer from nuclear to defense or others. That is unique for a company being in a country which has a developing demand for every one of the sectors in which it is involved,” he said in Istanbul on the sidelines of a defense fair that ended on May 13.
    Three sectors are of great importance for the company right now, he noted.

    “Defense is big for us right now. Then we see high potential in the nuclear business,” said Regis, adding that this would followed by power systems.

    Under the MTU brand of Rolls-Royce Power Systems, the company develops and produces high-speed engines and propulsion systems for ships and heavy land, rail and defense vehicles, as well as drive systems for use in the oil and gas industry and power generation.

    “The TF-X project is number one for us and the SMRs will follow this,” Regis noted.

    Turkey’s Kale Group and Rolls-Royce will establish a joint venture to develop civilian and fighter aircraft engines, including one for Turkey’s TF-X fighter jet, the companies announced on May 8.

    Kale will hold a 51 percent stake in the joint venture, while Rolls-Royce will control the rest. In the initial stage, some 350 Turkish engineers are expected to be hired by the joint venture and be sent to the Rolls-Royce headquarters in the United Kingdom to acquire the necessary engineering training.

    On the nuclear side, Regis noted a Rolls-Royce-led initiative that has focused on developing a fleet of SMRs for the civil nuclear industry.

    “We proposed to Turkey last year to be a part of this initiative and this is being discussed right now. We want Turkey to be a part of it,” he said.

    Regarding the civil aerospace sector, Turkish Airlines is of great importance, Regis said, adding that he believed the national carrier would start to take big orders by early next year.


    Knowledge transfer is ‘key strategy’

    Rolls-Royce’s Turkey strategy is based on transferring knowledge to the country’s industrial base, he said, adding that the company had been fostering this strategy through several key projects, including the establishment of an advanced manufacturing technology center (AMTC) in Turkey.

    Rolls-Royce signed a memorandum of understanding in 2015 with the Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK) to open the center.

    The partnership will focus on increasing indigenous manufacturing capability and technology transfer in the aerospace sector as well as in the civilian nuclear, defense, marine and industrial sectors.

    “We believe Turkey can grow by becoming more capable and more competitive globally. This is a platform for Turkey to get more capabilities in a number of key areas,” Regis said.

    Rolls-Royce has five such centers in the U.K. and one in the United States and in Singapore for each.

    According to Regis, Turkey has very strong universities, especially in technical areas, and many extremely strong industries, including the construction, shipbuilding and defense sectors.

    “We came late to Turkey. This model, which is based on knowledge transfer, will be great for Turkey and its universities and industries. It has a strong industrial base, but these are not always globally competitive. This center will help Turkey to achieve this. This is a unique model,” he said.


    “This is a win-win game. We can also use what we have developed together. We can be partners of developing, manufacturing and selling things together,” he added.

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ro....&NewsCatID=345
    Last edited by Bayar; 28th May 2017 at 02:02.

  18. #318
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    Seems like a deal with the devil. Cash for what, more destabilizing foreign powers in the grand scheme? Turkey has never been a particularly reliable partner of NATO. And their future revenue stream is pipelines crossing their territory. A carrier doesn't fortify their territorial claims, it's a power projection tool. So where will they project power?
    Go Huskers!

  19. #319
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    Contrarily, the Turkish official said that they had just received direct communication yesterday, Monday, from the Saudi counterparts, on the continuation of the deal. http://english.alghad.com/articles/1...rkish-Official
    Lets wait for the Saudi announcement because one is going to be made. I will reproduce it here.

    I am informed that Turkey will be exporting MILGEM as follows:

    4 to Pakistan- LOI signed at IDEF. Contract to be signed in July- Value $2 billion
    4 to Saudi Arabia (Option for 2). Contract to be signed in December- Value $2 billion
    4 to Malaysia- Negotiations continuing.

    The issue is Roketsan's ATMACA Anti-ship missiles that will be used on export versions of MILGEM. Customers are waiting for Turkey to begin commissioning the ATMACA.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Bayar; 31st May 2017 at 00:48.

  20. #320
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    Thread cleaned up. This is an aviation forum, not a political tribune.
    Regards,

    Frank

  21. #321
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    Update on TFX program:

    British and Turkish Governments ratify Governmental Agreement for ToT: http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/...ter-agreements

    The TFX will cost $100 million per plane. Turkey will be procuring 250 TF-X: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...h-jet-fighter/

  22. #322
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    Interesting that Aviation Week are still the only ones running with this story and that the Telegraph is reacting to the recent RR press release, rather than the wider co-operation on the project with BAE (which I still have yet to see reported).

  23. #323
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    UK and Turkey Sign TF-X Deal

    The Turkish fighter development (TF-X) programme took a vital step forward at IDEF on May 10. In a ceremony at the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) stand, Stephen Phipson, Head of the UK’s Defence and Security Organisation (DSO) and Professor Dr Ismail Demir, Turkey’s Undersecretary for Defence industries signed an agreement that will pave the way for future co-operation on the project.

    It means that Phase 1 Stage 1 preliminary design agreement between the Turkish Government and prime contractor TAI, signed on August 5, 2016, has been bolstered by the UK’s commitment to sharing technologies and expertise in support of TF-X.

    On January 28, 2017, the UK Prime Minister, Theresa May and the Turkish Prime Minister, Binali Yildirim announced a defence industry collaboration between their two countries. It saw BAE Systems and TAI signed a ‘Heads of Agreement’ on the same day to establish a partnership for the development of the ambitious TF-X. Worth more than £100 million, this first contract has the potential to facilitate multi-billion pound contracts between British and Turkish firms over the life-time of the project, strengthening links between the UK and Turkey. The TF-X is expected to make its first flight in 2023, to celebrate Turkey’s 100th anniversary and enter Turkish Air Force service in 2029.

    BAE Systems Managing Director Military Air and Information Chris Boardman is confident that the deadlines can be met based on previous experience on the likes of Mantis. “In simple terms, BAE will provide expertise across all the parts of the programme that are required to be put together. We are not workshare driven. BAE is known to design and deliver combat aircraft - that’s one of our specialist skills. We will operate in the areas they wish us to work but the first thing to understand, is what their [TAI’s] work programme is going forward, then formalize it and adapt to the work required to make the programme successful. There will be a trade-off between what you need to do to bring the content and what you need to develop production wise to actually meet the operational needs of the air forces operating the aircraft.” Rolls Royce and Eurojet are expected to compete for the engine contract and then there is the need for a flight control system. These are the most important decisions and they have to be made by the end of the year if the 2023 deadline is to be met,” Boardman finishes.

    Alan Warnes
    Monch Publishing
    http://www.monch.com/mpg/news/11-air...tf-x-deal.html
    The TFX is expected to make its maiden flight in 2023.
    Last edited by Bayar; 3rd June 2017 at 02:05.

  24. #324
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    More details on Turkish Aerospace Industries T-625: the twin-engined 6 Ton, 5 Rotor bladed Utility helicopter. Military versions will have an AESA based helicopter Electronic warfare protection suit.


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    Last edited by Bayar; 3rd June 2017 at 02:29.

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    Rostec CEO Sergey Çemezov confirms Turkey and Russia are discussing the development of a new 5. generation fighter and co-production of the S-400.

    Turkish sources are saying Turkey now want's a 5th Generation Air-to-Ground focused combat aircraft. There is also speculation Turkey either intends to cut down on it F-35 orders or withdraw from the program in its entirety.

    http://www.ntv.com.tr/ekonomi/rusya-...i0mpBsYae2toSg

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-...stem-to-turkey

    Turkey intends to produce components of the S-400 (radars & missiles).
    https://sputniknews.com/military/201...y-air-defense/
    Last edited by Bayar; 4th June 2017 at 09:35.

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    ??? Is that the same 5th Gen they want to do with BAe? Or something else?

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    The deal with BAe Systems is for an Air to Air- Air Superiority fighter. The deal to be signed with Rostec is for an Air to Ground 5th Generation Fighter. The Turks no longer want to solely rely on multi-role aircraft. Nor do they want to put their eggs in one basket.

    This gives further weight to the speculation that Turkey may be abandoning the multi-role F-35.
    Last edited by Bayar; 4th June 2017 at 11:28.

  28. #328
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    i highly doubt Turkey can be in so many different projects. BAE simply in not position in real 5G fighter of 21st century. plus BAE will come under pressure from US and others in Middleast. Russia has the lowest cost scientific knowledge for 5G fighter from composite materials/super computers to high performance engines.
    MIG29k can lift more than 5.5tons from skijump. strong engine despite lack of composite material. AL-31 has over 4000 sold to China/India alone.

  29. #329
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    it may be your fan art dear friend, in my opinion a fighter which will be flown in 2023 is already should do both missions perfectly without any drawbacks. But it would be more logical if they would deal for a lightweight more affordable 5th gen. fighter. it is something like licence production but even that is not realistic in my opinion. Russian officials always do statements but how much of them are reliable is questionable, suggest you dont take serious their all.

  30. #330
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    JSR- Turkish Aerospace Industries already has Advanced Composites Technology for Aerospace applications. Turkey is strong in this sector because many Turkish companies have been producing fast-attack craft using advanced composites for sometime now. E.g. Yonca-Onuk MRTP 33. This was also one of the ToT agreements under the F-35 program. Turkey has been using this technology in nearly all its new aerial platforms such as the ANKA, Bayraktar TB-2, Hurkus etc. See http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...y-for-jsf.html

    In fact, one of the technologies the Russians are after is Advanced Composites.

    As for BAe Systems coming under US pressure- it is for this reason Turkey is hedging it's risks.

    As for the Turkey-Russia Agreement- Turkish Defence sources are saying that the aircraft will primarily be a licence built derivative of the T-50 PAK-FA with Turkish mission computer, avionics etc.

    As for Russian statements not being reliable medal64- I don't think Mr. Putin and Mr. Erdogan have been having face to face talks for no reason on this topic. They have met 5 times in a period of 6 months and the Kremlin is saying S-400 co-production in Turkey is approved.
    Last edited by Bayar; 5th June 2017 at 01:06.

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