Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 240 of 527

Thread: Turkish aerospace

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    An article from Janes Defence on Turkey's Air to Air missiles.

    Air-Launched Weapons
    IDEF 2017: First Turkish air-to-air missiles revealed
    http://www.janes.com/article/70278/i...HFn9B0.twitter

    James Bingham, Instanbul - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets
    11 May 2017

    Two indigenous Turkish air-to-air missiles have been revealed by Tübitak Sage at the IDEF 2017 defence exhibition in Istanbul: the first such air-to-air missiles to be developed by the country.

    Comprising the within-visual-range missile known as the Gökdogan ('Peregrine') and beyond-visual-range Bozdogan ('Merlin'), the missiles remain in development for the Turkish Air Force.

    Peregrine uses a high thrust, reduced smoke solid propellant and electronic arming and firing system, with thrust vectoring providing enhanced manoeuvrability, particularly at close range. The missile uses a high-resolution dual-colour imaging infrared (IIR) seeker with 'advanced' counter-countermeasures and a 'unique' warhead design.

    Meanwhile, Merlin also uses a reduced smoke solid propellant, without the thrust vectoring of Peregrine. Also using the same electronic arming and firing system as Peregrine, both Merlin and Peregrine can be used with the LAU-129 missile launcher.

    Merlin uses a solid-state radio frequency (RF) seeker, with a 'launch and forget' capability. The missile can also be used in a lock-on after launch mode, with a datalink update from the aircraft also allowing the missile to be updated in flight. As with Peregrine, Merlin uses counter-countermeasures, but can also home on jamming.

    Both these missiles have been developed for use on the Turkish Air Force's fleet of F-16 Fighting Falcon aircraft, with ground testing having already taken place.

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,845
    Roketsan unveils its Space Launch System at IDEF. It had won the Turkish Government's tender for development of a domestic Space Launch Vehicle for Turkish Satellite Systems back in 2013: http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/...px?projeID=222 The project is at end of conceptual design phase
    What does this even means..??? They won the State Tender back in 2013, like four years ago! Where does that program stand today? Is it still a paper conceptual design phase?

    Its like the moderator stated; you need to address your post with something more than just some advs or old articles with no substance!

    Edit:
    For the sake of everyone's sanity, i suggest you keep your post more linked to what Turkish defense Industry has in the loop. like first test flight, first test launch, first pre-production lot, stuff like that..
    And NOT your "Expected, possible, early design phases etc"..but something more tangeble
    Last edited by haavarla; 11th May 2017 at 15:25.
    Thanks

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    SP forum is claiming both KAI and TFX threads being hijacked by people working at respective companies to promote their product

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    Who are they promoting their products to? Its not like we are the target audience. Its not like we are procuring combat aircraft. lol

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,324
    From AW&ST

    Turkey to buy Hurkus light attack aircraft from TAI

    ISTANBUL—The Turkish government has signed a letter of intent to purchase up to 24 Hurkus light attack aircraft from Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI).
    Officials from TAI and Turkey’s Undersecretariat of Defense Industries (SSM) inked the agreement at the IDEF defense show here on May 11. SSM plans to purchase 12 Hurkus-Cs for use by the Turkish Land Forces, with options to purchase an additional 12.

    Negotiations are underway to finalize a contract in the coming months, with industry officials telling Aviation Week the program will likely take up to three years to complete.

    The order follows the successful test firing of a Roketsan Laser-Umtas (L-Umtas)/Mizrak laser-guided missile from the modified prototype Hurkus-A on April 7 on a test range near Konya.

    The Hurkus-C will be developed from the Hurkus-B advanced training aircraft, which is currently being developed by TAI. It will be equipped with three hard points underneath each wing and an electro-optical camera system under the fuselage.

    TAI needs to complete development of the Hurkus-C with additional weapons testing and integrate the weapons systems with the Aselsan avionics suite being developed for the Hurkus-B. The company also is expecting to support some training for Turkish Army pilots, as the only fixed-wing aircraft currently in service with Turkish Army Aviation are Cessna 172s and Beechcraft King Air turboprop support aircraft. Officials also will have to select a self-defense system and electro-optical camera for the in-service fleet.

    Meanwhile, the seventh and eighth Hurkus-B aircraft have entered production at TAI’s facility in Ankara. The first aircraft is due to be powered up in July and should make its first flight by late 2017.

    The Turkish Air Force has ordered 15 Hurkus-Bs for advanced training and has options to purchase up to 40 more.

    TAI is planning to send one of the prototype Hurkus aircraft to the Paris Air Show next month, where it should appear in the flying display.

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    Who are they promoting their products to? Its not like we are the target audience. Its not like we are procuring combat aircraft. lol
    the guy who made that comment is a bit of a psycho. maybe kurdish.
    certainly, he is a friend of our british friend

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Sarum
    Posts
    4,359
    Y-20 Bacon, Is he the one banging on about conspiracies in a less than coherent way?

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    come again?

    by the way I found this picture



    with more and and more images it looks like it'll be a large jet. Maybe f-22 or greater sized..

    is the Eurojet sufficient for that weight? looks potentially underpowered

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    TAI's ANKA-S MALE UAV breaks endurance record of 36 hours continuous flight at 40,000 ft.



    The ANKA-S has SATCOM navigation using the TURKSAT-4B satellites.

    The ANKA-S can operate in the following areas but the Turkish Air Force intends to increase Satellite coverage by commissioning 16 new satellites over next 7 years.



    The ANKA uses Aselsan SATCOMS


    Last edited by Bayar; 14th May 2017 at 03:54.

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    Y-20 Bacon, the EUROJET EJ-200 did not win the tender.

    A joint venture between Rolls-Royce and Kale Aerospace of Turkey was formed this week at the IDEF 2017 fair. It has been charged with the development of a new 35,000 lbf engine for the TF-X program.

    Rolls-Royce officials have stated that they will use technology gained during the development of the General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136.

    Rolls-Royce and Kale Group create defence aero engine joint venture
    Monday, 8 May 2017
    https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/pr...t-venture.aspx

    Rolls-Royce and Kale Group, a major partner in global and national defence and aerospace industries, have announced the formation of a joint venture company to target aero engine opportunities in Turkey.

    Kale Group will own 51 per cent and Rolls-Royce 49 per cent of the joint venture, which aims to develop aircraft engines for Turkey, initially targeting the TF-X National Fighter Jet Project. The agreement was signed at a ceremony in Istanbul today attended by Osman Okyay, Deputy CEO of Kale Group and Chris Cholerton, Rolls-Royce, President - Defence Aerospace.

    Osman Okyay said: “Today we are very pleased and proud to be uniting our energy with one of the biggest jet engine makers of the world. This partnership is a milestone in the development of the aerospace and defence industries of Turkey.”

    Chris Cholerton said: “We are delighted to announce this new Joint Venture and to have the opportunity to work together with Kale to develop the national engine for TF-X.”

    Kale Group is the contractor for the Turbojet engine development project, a milestone in Turkey’s aim to produce domestic aircraft engines.

    The establishment of the joint venture is subject to the usual legal approvals.
    N.B. Her Majesty's Government and the Turkish Government approved the Joint-Venture by way of a "Exchange of Diplomatic Letters" the same day.
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th May 2017 at 04:11.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Sarum
    Posts
    4,359
    That is a big engine. So in theory RR is involved in developing a replacement M88 sized engine for LO applications and a large fighter sized engine for LO applications. That is a very healthy position to be in surely given the lack of future programmes in Europe?

    The engine for this fighter has a lot to live up to if it isn't just going to be a 1990s technology motor.

  12. #222
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    Most definitely mrmalaya. From what I can deduce Turkey is funding the R&D costs for a new generation Rolls-Royce engine which it will have intellectual property rights over.

    I also note that the deal between the United Kingdom and Turkey explicitly states that the UK can produce both the TF-X its engine for its own air force (should it wish to do so) but not third-parties. This is similar to the deal signed between Turkish Aerospace Industries and Agusta-Westland (now leonardo) for the T129.

    Thus, I think if this turns out to be a proper twin engine air superiority fighter the UK will procure them aswell.

  13. #223
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    which brings us to the next question.
    Does Turkey really need a Pak-fa/F-22 sized jet?


    looking at this old picture, looks like TAI went on to develop the top (largest) one
    but I think the bottom two might fit Turkey's size better, and might be less riskier.

  14. #224
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon
    which brings us to the next question.
    Does Turkey really need a Pak-fa/F-22 sized jet?
    Scratch that, can Turkey even afford a jet & engine in that class (especially on top of all the other stuff they want to develop and which is therefore going to compete for money)? At the moment, their economy is still doing reasonably well after a couple of years of very strong growth, but the future consequences of the recent political unrest are unclear. Russia demonstrates quite pointedly how an autocratic government which goes after disloyal parts of the elite fosters corruption and economic stagnation.

    And the UK - supposing the government (as opposed to a private investment by BAe) can prop up the project by acquiring the aircraft for the RAF? Well, Brexit looms here - although the outlook for the military appears to have improved a bit recently, the future also holds a lot of unknowns and the past inspires little confidence. Sure, there has been no negative impact to date, but then why would there be when the cause has not yet come into effect (and the negotiations determining the post-membership status haven't even started in earnest)?

    Also, where does it say the proposed engine development is 35000lbf (although for a single engine configuration that is probably a sensible size - the bottom-most concept is also the best-looking )? Certainly nowhere in that press release.

  15. #225
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    Turkey has a large fleet of heavily upgraded single engine multi-role F-16's (240) and is acquiring another 115 single engine F-35's. It wouldn't make sense for them to develop a single engine multi-role aircraft when they could probably source more F-35's at a cheaper rate.

    The Turkish Air Force was however lacking twin engined air to air combat aircraft. Eurofighter had offered Turkey licensed production of the Eurofighter Typhoon at the time but Turkey decided to opt for a clean sheet air superiority fighter program of its own so that it could also develop its own aerospace industry whist acquiring a twin engined fighter jet.

    The TF-X in my view has essentially evolved into a poor-man's F-22 program.

    @Trident the majority of the information I share here is from open sources and also from my direct contact with BAE & TAI officials at IDEF 2017.

    The Turkish Government has also already stated that it would be a twin engined aircraft program.
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th May 2017 at 13:56.

  16. #226
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,362
    Originally Posted by Trident
    Scratch that, can Turkey even afford a jet & engine in that class (especially on top of all the other stuff they want to develop and which is therefore going to compete for money)? At the moment, their economy is still doing reasonably well after a couple of years of very strong growth, but the future consequences of the recent political unrest are unclear.
    very strong growth? how you define strong and than very strong.

    Russia demonstrates quite pointedly how an autocratic government which goes after disloyal parts of the elite fosters corruption and economic stagnation.
    Russia is the least corrupt nation in world. It is GDP is scientific based with tremendous increase in military power without creation of debt. Europe under Germany elected Suadi arabia for human and women rights. imagine Russia remove its transit pipelines from Ukraine. how much EU will need Middleast?. and there Russian military power will squeeze those Arabs.
    And the UK - supposing the government (as opposed to a private investment by BAe) can prop up the project by acquiring the aircraft for the RAF? Well, Brexit looms here - although the outlook for the military appears to have improved a bit recently, the future also holds a lot of unknowns and the past inspires little confidence. Sure, there has been no negative impact to date, but then why would there be when the cause has not yet come into effect (and the negotiations determining the post-membership status haven't even started in earnest)?
    you shouldnt make statements on economics.

  17. #227
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Trident
    Russia demonstrates quite pointedly how an autocratic government which goes after disloyal parts of the elite fosters corruption and economic stagnation.
    When did that happen? Last time I checked, Russia was a democratic federative state with a republican form of government.

  18. #228
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    213
    i see a lot of parallel with AMCA eg a few joint ventures in major systems with foreign vendors,hoped for technology transfer and seemingly turning out be a heavy fighter. perhaps 5 years from now InShaAllah we will see both prototypes fly
    Last edited by nkvd; 14th May 2017 at 19:41.

  19. #229
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,755
    Quote Originally Posted by MSphere
    When did that happen? Last time I checked, Russia was a democratic federative state with a republican form of government.
    I believe you speak German, right?

    "Papier ist geduldig."

    But we digress.

  20. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    Russian president gets elected, just like in every other democratic state I can think of.. How does that fulfill your criteria of autocracy?
    Yes, I am fluent in German.. definitely my favorite foreign language..
    Last edited by MSphere; 15th May 2017 at 00:03.

  21. #231
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    Guys can we please leave politics out of this thread- I don't want this one ending up locked as well.

  22. #232
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    As for the TF-X budget the Turkish Ministry of Defence has estimated it to be between $15 billion and $20 billion for total development excluding propulsion system over a period of 10 years. By way of comparison AMCA is costing ₹9,000 crore (approx. US$2 billion), Sukhoi PAK FA $10 billion.

    This amounts to $1.5 to $2 billion per year. This amount is trivial for Turkey- its Presidential Jet fleet costs more to maintain!

    This is a good read- it explains how Turkey funds its Defence industry: http://themarketmogul.com/turkey-sec...onomic-weapon/
    Last edited by Bayar; 15th May 2017 at 06:33.

  23. #233
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,449
    It is unfortunate that the worthy topic of Turkish aerospace activities has been almost buried beneath nationalist sniping, from boosters as well as critics.

    On current activity alone the Turkish air force and aerospace industry must rank amongst the most dynamic and interesting in the world (behind the Big Four that is). Will Turkey realise its ambitions re: TF-X? Who knows. But it will be certainly be an interesting journey to watch. In an era where the costs of developing high-end systems and unfavourable socio-political climates have reduced the military aerospace activities of most "established" national players to somewhere between merely boring (USA, Russia) and actively soporific (Europe), we must rely on new players to inject new vibrancy into the field. Best of luck, Turks.
    Last edited by Rii; 15th May 2017 at 07:19.

  24. #234
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,845
    As for the TF-X budget the Turkish Ministry of Defence has estimated it to be between $15 billion and $20 billion for total development excluding propulsion system over a period of 10 years. By way of comparison AMCA is costing ₹9,000 crore (approx. US$2 billion), Sukhoi PAK FA $10 billion.

    This amounts to $1.5 to $2 billion per year. This amount is trivial for Turkey- its Presidential Jet fleet costs more to maintain!

    This is a good read- it explains how Turkey funds its Defence industry: http://themarketmogul.com/turkey-sec...onomic-weapon/
    Please.. You can't be serious.
    Every program has seen a hike in cost. AMCA at two US Billion??? This does not compute.
    Tejas program cost 1 Billion US dollar back in 2015, and the bean counter still goes.. And the TEJAS requirements does not include the highly expensive Stealth factor.
    Thanks

  25. #235
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    uh oh
    derpy vs turkey
    this will be fun to read

  26. #236
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,845
    uh oh
    derpy vs turkey
    this will be fun to read
    Yes, cause would be right in your alley when it comes to contributing on this forum.. nationalistic soap drama.

    I was questioning his figures on AMCA program, that's all.
    Thanks

  27. #237
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    If British companies are involved, it might end up costing waaay more than $20 bil.. not exactly the cheapest workforce one can get..

  28. #238
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    400
    haavarla & MSphere,

    I am going by open source data for the budget estimates of comparable programs:

    HAL AMCA: http://www.business-standard.com/art...2100025_1.html
    Sukhoi Pak Fa: http://www.business-standard.com/art...0600047_1.html

    Turkish Aerospace Industries in consultation with the Turkish Ministry of Defense have estimated and allocated between $15 to 20 billion for design and development of Aerostructure, Avionics, Radars & Sensors etc excluding engines. The Turkish Ministry of Defence estimates another $10 billion for propulsion system design and development.

    The contract between BAE Systems and Turkish Aerospace Industries is only £100 Million: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...h-fighter.html

    BAE is only contributing engineering and testing services.

    Now the deal between Kale Aerospace and Rolls-Royce is independent of the contract between BAE Systems and Turkish Aerospace Industries. This is where the contract is estimated to be valued in the billions.

    Now with respect to the sub-systems to be used in the TF-X one needs to realize that Turkey is not starting entirely from scratch. Turkish industry has already developed, tested, commissioned and in some case exported (mainly to Pakistan and Jordan) 4th generation combat aircraft sub-systems. These include Advanced targeting and navigation PODS, IRST, Helmet Mounted Cuing Systems, MFD's, Mission Computers, Electronic Warfare Pods and Self-protections suits, Datalink systems, IFF systems, Data-Fusion technologies, Indigenous Weapons systems integration, Composite fuselage production etc. ASELSAN is also nearing the completion and certification of its AESA radar. Turkish Industry merely needs to develop the existing technologies a further generation. It can do this with some level of minimal input from BAE Systems.

    One must also not discount the fact that Turkish Aerospace Industries and TUSAS Engine Industries have license produced over 300 F-16's of various Blocks and that Turkey is also a level 3 partner in the JSF consortium. Turkish Industry is also heavily involved in the production of F-35's and some deals even include ToT.

    I also do understand that the gap between 4th and 5th generation combat aircraft is great but this does not mean its un-achievable. With the right team, guidance and project model it can be achieved. This is where the expertise of BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce comes into play.
    Last edited by Bayar; 15th May 2017 at 12:41.

  29. #239
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,042
    Yes, cause would be right in your alley when it comes to contributing on this forum.. nationalistic soap drama.

    I was questioning his figures on AMCA program, that's all.
    this is not your f-35 thread

  30. #240
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cataclysm
    Posts
    8,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    Turkish Aerospace Industries in consultation with the Turkish Ministry of Defense have estimated and allocated between $15 to 20 billion for design and development of Aerostructure, Avionics, Radars & Sensors etc excluding engines. The Turkish Ministry of Defence estimates another $10 billion for propulsion system design and development.
    Excluding engines, that clears it.. I've always thought $15-20 bil seemed awfully low for an entire aircraft, incl. propulsion, especially when there are no viable predecessors, like Saturn 117 engine or N035 Irbis radar in the PAK-FA program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    Now with respect to the sub-systems to be used in the TF-X one needs to realize that Turkey is not starting entirely from scratch. Turkish industry has already developed, tested, commissioned and in some case exported (mainly to Pakistan and Jordan) 4th generation combat aircraft sub-systems. These include Advanced targeting and navigation PODS, IRST, Helmet Mounted Cuing Systems, MFD's, Mission Computers, Electronic Warfare Pods and Self-protections suits, Datalink systems, IFF systems, Data-Fusion technologies, Indigenous Weapons systems integration, Composite fuselage production etc. ASELSAN is also nearing the completion and certification of its AESA radar. Turkish Industry merely needs to develop the existing technologies a further generation. It can do this with some level of minimal input from BAE Systems.
    Electronics and ordnance is exactly an area I would not worry too much about.. You can always start with uprated vintage systems and only do a thorough redesign later.. PAK-FA is a good example of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
    I also do understand that the gap between 4th and 5th generation combat aircraft is great but this does not mean its un-achievable. With the right team, guidance and project model it can be achieved. This is where the expertise of BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce comes into play.
    Well, there is a large gap between producing 4th Gen aircraft and developing a 5th Gen. I guess Turkey can make the avionics right.. They will need a lot of help with the airframe and RCS testing.. and they will need to outsource the complete development of the propulsion system to RR.. Kale will only assemble it together and learn how to make one from scratch.. Then it can work..

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES