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Thread: Turkish aerospace

  1. #541
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    Indeed. Perhaps ifthe TFX thread ban hadnt been put in place at the beginning, we wouldnt have to trawl through all the PR to read what we are interested in?

  2. #542
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    Guys I was restricted to putting all Turkish Aerospace updates into one thread hence why the posts are very sporadic.

    There are so many developments such as turbo-fan, turbo-shaft engine development, radar development, missile propulsion development, helicopter development etc that I cannot fit into other threads. I try desperately and sometimes with little success in categorising them due to the restrictions imposed.

    Now, with respect to the TF-X it really needs a thread of its own but everyone opposed this at the onset. It is a somewhat mature project with initial conceptual design phases now completed. The United Kingdom has even already issued export licences and re-located engineering teams to Turkey. So I really don't know why we have no TF-X dedicated thread.
    Last edited by Bayar; 6th August 2017 at 10:18.

  3. #543
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    Guys I was restricted to putting all Turkish Aerospace updates into one thread hence why the posts are very sporadic.

    There are so many developments such as turbo-fan, turbo-shaft engine development, radar development, missile propulsion development, helicopter development etc that I cannot fit into other threads. I try desperately and sometimes with little success in categorising them due to the restrictions imposed.

    Now, with respect to the TF-X it really needs a thread of its own but everyone opposed this at the onset. It is a somewhat mature project with initial conceptual design phases now completed. The United Kingdom has even already issued export licences and re-located engineering teams to Turkey. So I really don't know why we have no TF-X dedicated thread.
    Agreed ... I have to admit esp. since I was one of these critics! Times have changed.

    So I would suggest: go ahead and I will support that.

    Otherwise I hope You do not get me wrong: Please post anything on engines and other minor projects here and it would be fine to start a new dedicated Turkish-naval and a thread on Turkish- radar and missiles but then in the other sections !

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  4. #544
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    Further details on transfer of technology from Sikorsky to Turkish Aerospace Industries under the Turkish Utility Helicopter Program.


    Turkish Utility Helicopter Program – An Industrial Partnership Expected to Span at Least 3 Decades
    http://www.defenceturkey.com/en/cont...6#.WYhLWzOB3Vp

    Mr. Jason Lambert, Program Director - Turkish Utility Helicopter Program Sikorsky, a Lockheed Martin Company elaborate upon the latest information on the TUHP program and collaboration for Turkish partners

    Defence Turkey: Mr. Jason Lambert, first of all we would like to thank you for your time. The contract signed between the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) and TAI and the main sub-contractor Sikorsky and other domestic sub-contractors within the scope of the General Purpose Helicopter Program officially entered into force in June 2016 upon the completion of the efforts for USA’s export licenses. The official launch of the contract was behind the planned schedule. What was the cause of this delay? Could you briefly assess this process?

    Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the program. The Turkish Utility Helicopter Program (TUHP) will establish the Turkish Defense Industry as a global leader in Rotorcraft production given the unpreceded volume of technology that will be transferred to Turkey. You are correct that the official launch of the Program was delayed beyond the initial anticipated schedule. Given the TUHP scope and strategic importance, both the U.S. Government and the Turkish Government provided a significant level of oversight to ensure that the Export Licenses were structured in a manner to enable the full execution of the Program. I am pleased to say that the collaboration between the U.S. Government, Turkish Government and Sikorsky ensured that we obtained the export licenses to successfully launch the program in June 2016. These licenses will serve as the foundation for our industrial partnership which will last for at least three decades.

    Defence Turkey: Dear Mr. Lambert, what will be the differences between T70 configurations which will be manufactured for Turkey and the S-70 model? Could you please inform us on the configurations that will be procured by Turkey?

    The T70 helicopter will be a variant of Sikorsky’s S-70i Black Hawk helicopter. As the prime contractor, TAI will manufacture the T70 aircraft under a license agreement with Sikorsky. TAI will customize the T70 helicopter in two configurations, utility, and firefighting for use by six Turkish end users. Additionally, TAI will also manufacture the S-70i Black Hawk for export sale by Sikorsky to the international market.

    Defence Turkey: The delivery of the 109-piece lot was planned to be completed within a 10 year period. Could you please share with us the latest updates regarding the delivery of the first helicopter as well as regarding the subsequent deliveries?


    The TUHP contracted delivery schedule is subject to the successful completion of several conditions, one of which was securing export licenses. These conditions were successfully fulfilled in June 2016, launching the delivery calendar for the Program. To initiate the development and production of the T70, Sikorsky delivered over 185,000 pages of technical data to TAI, on-time in Q4 2016. Additionally, in Q1 2018, Sikorsky will deliver the initial kit of T70 component parts to TAI for use in the Final Assembly of T70 #1 which will begin production in Q2 2018. The first T70 helicopter is scheduled for delivery in 2021 with the 109th unit scheduled for delivery in 2026.

    Defence Turkey: Turkey’s demand for T70 Utility Helicopters was identified as 300 for the following 20 year period and a consensus was reached between the parties on the procurement of 109 + 191 optional helicopters to this end. What kind of a plan is on the table regarding the utilization of the other 191-piece lot which will be procured optionally in addition to the 109-piece lot? Could you inform us on the latest developments?

    You are correct that the initial procurement and current program of record is for 109 T70 helicopters and that options exist for an additional 191 units. TAI is licensed by Sikorsky for production for a total of 300 T70 units (109+191). Should SSM decide to procure optional T70 aircraft, these options would be added to the current program of record.

    Defence Turkey: According to the contract of TUHP and in line with the requirements of the institutions in Turkey, Sikorsky committed to manufacture a helicopter at TAI facilities in return for each built helicopter and to export every helicopter produced in Turkey. Within such a framework, which type of a business model will come out between the parties regarding the export of the S-70i model to third countries? On the other hand, the initial amount of helicopters to be exported was 300, is an increase in this figure possible?


    Under TUHP, for every T70 helicopter that TAI assembles for the Turkish end users, TAI will also assemble an S-70i helicopter that Sikorsky will purchase from TAI for Sikorsky to sell to the international market. Sikorsky and TAI will partner together to identify export markets for these helicopters. At present, the initial number of helicopters to be exported is 109 units however, that number could reach as high as 300 units depending on the T70 options exercised by SSM.

    Defence Turkey: Could you also please inform us on the studies conducted and plans built regarding the production line to be established at TAI facilities?

    TAI has built a world-class assembly facility that will be used to produce the T70 and S-70i helicopters. In preparation for the start of T70 production, Sikorsky has been providing Technical Training and Technical Assistance to TAI in the areas of Manufacturing and Engineering. Our support will continue throughout TAI’s production of the T70.

    Defence Turkey: What would you like to say on the responsibilities and business portions of the main contractors and sub-contractors in the development, production and integration processes?

    TAI, as the prime contractor, will perform the final assembly, customization, and flight test for each T70 aircraft. Additionally, TAI also will manufacture the helicopter fuselage, empennage, and composite rotor blades.

    Sikorsky is the main subcontractor to TAI, delivering the technical data, technical training, technical assistance, aftermarket support, and helicopter components in the form of Kits to enable TAI to build the T70 helicopter based on the S-70i Black Hawk platform.

    Sikorsky is also collaborating with Aselsan on the development of a new avionics suite for the T70 known as the Integrated Modular Avionics System (IMAS). IMAS is a collaborative design by Aselsan, Sikorsky, TAI and pilots serving the Turkish Armed Forces to meet the requirements of Turkish T70 operators and other potential customers. This enhanced digital cockpit will provide Turkish pilots with powerful smart displays, point-and-click functionality to speed input of pilot commands, and ergonomic enhancements to the Pilot Vehicle Interface that will reduce pilot workload. Navigational improvements tailored to Turkish requirements will include an integrated Terrain Avoidance Warning System, an integrated advanced digital map, and coupled flight control functions for guided approaches to landing zones. As you may know, in March 2017, Sikorsky transferred to Aselsan an S-70i helicopter, which was built by our PZL Mielec factory in Poland. This helicopter will be used as the prototype for the integration, test and qualification of the IMAS. After the qualification of the cockpit, Sikorsky will deliver this Prototype helicopter to TAI.

    Alp Aviation will perform precision machining of the T70 helicopter’s dynamic components, mechanical flight controls, transmissions and landing gear assemblies.

    TEI will build the engines for the T70 under license from General Electric.


    Defence Turkey: Which type of a plan is envisaged to increase the domestic participation level aimed for the initial 5 helicopter lot to be delivered by you and the deliveries which will follow?

    For the first five T70 helicopters, Sikorsky will provide kits of aircraft components to TAI for Final Assembly. Over time, as TAI and Turkish Industry increase their capabilities to produce the components, Sikorsky’s kit content will decrease and the percentage of Turkish manufactured components will increase. Our collective production schedule outlines the Turkish industry phase-in timing for the various T70 components.

    Defence Turkey: What are your comments on the transformation of the active cooperation within the scope of the program built with the domestic sub-contractor companies into potential cooperation in other programs in the medium and long term?

    When SSM developed the concept for the Turkish Utility Helicopter Program, a principal objective was to increase capability of the Turkish Aerospace & Defense industry. Sikorsky’s industrialization proposal met this expectation and we are proud to partner with the Turkish companies to develop a world class rotorcraft industry here in Turkey for the production of the T70 and S-70i. This effort is a true international industrial partnership that will set the foundation for the future. For example, in March of this year, TAI announced our recent agreement to produce airframe components for Sikorsky; and here at IDEF, we are announcing an agreement with Alp Aviation which will become the first international supplier of main landing gear assemblies for Black Hawk helicopters. These are just two examples of recent cooperation and I am confident that there will be many more examples to come in the years ahead.

    Defence Turkey: Lastly, is there a message you would like to convey to the readers of Defence Turkey Magazine?

    Sikorsky is now a Lockheed Martin company, following the purchase of our organization in November 2015. Since that time, the integration of the two companies has progressed very smoothly. I am very pleased to say that the TUHP program has the full support of Lockheed Martin senior leadership.

    Additionally, the integration of Sikorsky within Lockheed Martin is also good news for the Black Hawk platform as we are looking to integrate different types of sensors, systems and weapons produced by Lockheed Martin. Those benefits will become increasingly evident in the years ahead as the Black Hawk helicopter becomes even more capable and takes on new missions
    Last edited by Bayar; 7th August 2017 at 11:24.

  5. #545
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    I think once Turkey goes on full anti-west and firmly aligns itself in the Russo-China sphere (its taken significant steps in that direction).
    we can start seeing reduced interactions between European and American companies.
    I'm more interested on what Turkey can gain out of cooperating with Sukhoi, Mil, Chengdu, etc.

  6. #546
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    @Y-20 Bacon, I agree with that assessment. However, I don't believe Turkey will align itself with the Russo-China sphere overtly within the next 5 years time. It will happen gradually and at an extremely slow pace.

    In any event we can view the most recent cooperation with European and American companies as an incentive of keeping Turkey within the NATO/Western fold. However, Western/European support for Kurdish Statehood under YPG leadership in Northern Syria will ultimately result in Turkey joining the Russo-China sphere- it effectively has no choice. Once Kurdish Statehood under YPG leadership occurs Turkey knows that the US/NATO will no longer need Turkey in the region. Hence, why Turkey is taking bold moves to prevent this at all costs.

    I think this would be alarming many in Brussels of late in any event: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...r-weapon-fears
    Last edited by Bayar; 9th August 2017 at 07:58.

  7. #547
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    don't put too much ideology in it. It's money first. The end result being that if things turn ugly, cooperation might be called-off. That's simple as that.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 9th August 2017 at 09:02.

  8. #548
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    @TomcatViP, procurement of big ticket items always have a political dimension. The source you procure arms from ultimately reflects your political leanings and alliances (interpolarity etc). Procurement of S-400 Air Defense Systems and holding back-door negotiations on co-development of a fighter with Russia at the very least hint that Turkey may lean towards the China-Russia sphere. But only time will tell because Turkey also has purchased Russian arms in back the 1990's when it was heavily involved with NATO. It remains to be seen whether the Turkey-NATO/US/Germany spat is of a wider political realignment or a temporary dispute amongst friends.
    Last edited by Bayar; 9th August 2017 at 10:31.

  9. #549
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    I think once Turkey goes on full anti-west and firmly aligns itself in the Russo-China sphere (its taken significant steps in that direction).
    They wont.

  10. #550
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    Spending quite a bit of time in Ankara over the last three years, I'd say they lean to where the money is. As the glamour of the Western Empire is less bright these days, and there is a star rising in the East they hedge their bets and carefully start playing with the other side more openly and more substantially. That's basically the case in the Gulf area as well. Ideology is nice, and I count religion into that as well, but money talks and is in the end the dominating factor of where someone leans here; there are very very few naturally and stable alliances and loyalties. But of course, the U.S. is just one seriously lost war away from getting gleefully kicked out of the region, as there are many scores to settle from over the past 100 years. There is no "fealty" here beyond what pure violence and Greenbacks can effect.

  11. #551
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    as there are many scores to settle from over the past 100 years.
    You are making a confusion with the old colonial empire which from the USA ran off. I would suggest you read a bit on the subject.

  12. #552
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    They wont.
    Turkey will have little choice but to follow Russia unless it want to get self destruct.
    Turkey principal investor Qatar is basically 100% depended on Iran. and Iranian oil/gas production will increase at rapid rate. it means more wars and more expensive US weopon exports to Middleast and less money for investments.
    and Russia in next 2 years will have all the capability to implement to most effective air and sea embargo Middleast.
    Once Merkel sees that EU and especially France is unable to attract any further investments. that will be the end of any kind of EU wide military projects.

  13. #553
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    And you might want to travel, live and do business in the area a bit ;-)
    "Distiller ... arrogant, ruthless, and by all reports (including his own) utterly charming"

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