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Thread: Turkish aerospace

  1. #361
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    External Debt:
    $410 billion.
    29.5% of GDP.

    GDP (purchasing power parity):
    $1.698 trillion (2016 est.)
    $1.65 trillion (2015 est.)
    $1.555 trillion (2014 est.)

    GDP - real growth rate:
    2.9% (2016 est. post-coup attempt)
    6.1% (2015 est.)
    5.2% (2014 est.)

    See https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/tu.html

    Turkey financing income generating projects is merely propping up the economy. Construction fuels an economy. $400 billion in mega projects will only fuel Turkey's economic growth. Kanal Istanbul and cross-border Highways are recreating the Silk Road and trade with China and Asia will grow exponentially. Pipelines from central asia to Europe criss-crossing Turkey means large amounts of transit fees per cubic metre of gas transferred.

    For the past 20 years everyone has been saying Turkey is going bust. This is still yet to eventuate. Instead Turkey has shown steady economic growth.

    Turkey, China join hands to revive ancient Silk Road
    Source: Xinhua| 2017-04-19 18:13:58|Editor: An

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._136220864.htm

    ANKARA, April 19 (Xinhua) -- Turkish President Erdogan told visiting Chinese Vice Premier Liu Yandong Tuesday that he earnestly expects to attend the Belt and Road forum this May and hopes for deepening all-round cooperation with China.

    Visiting Chinese Vice Premier Liu Yandong met with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Prime Minister Binali Yildirim in Ankara on Tuesday.
    Erdogan said he had met with Chinese President Xi Jinping for many times in recent years, which firmly enhanced the smooth development of Turkey-China friendly and cooperative relations.

    He attached great importance to the Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation, and highly expected to meet with President Xi Jinping next month in China.
    Turkey and China should accelerate strategic alignment and strengthen cooperation in various fields, which will benefit both the region and world, he said.
    He expressed the hope that the two countries could bring their respective potential into full play through joint efforts to step up economic and trade cooperation. He welcomed more Chinese enterprises to invest and prosper business there.

    The two countries also need to deepen cooperation in anti-terrorism, the president stressed.

    Chinese Vice Premier Liu Yandong welcomed President Erdogan's attendance to the Belt and Road Forum in Beijing.

    She expressed the hope that the two countries could strength cooperation in various fields, accelerate strategic alignment, and promote the Belt and Road initiative construction, in order to make new contributions to regional cooperation.

    She added that China is willing to expand people-to-people exchanges in education, culture, sports and tourism fields, which will build up mutual understanding and friendship between both peoples and consolidate public support for China-Turkey Strategic Cooperative Relations.

    In his meeting with Liu, Turkish Prime Minister Yildirim said that he attaches great importance to Turkey-China relations.

    He hoped the Erdogan's attendance to Belt and Road Forum would play a positive role in boosting bilateral economic, trade, culture, education and tourism cooperation, and lift Turkey-China relations to a higher level.

    During her visit, Liu also held meeting with Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Tugrul Turkes on humanity exchange, and attended the launch ceremony of Turkish language edition of the book "Xi Jinping: The Governance of China" with Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek.
    Liu arrived in Ankara on Monday at the invitation of her Turkish counterpart Tugrul Turkes.
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th June 2017 at 03:56.

  2. #362
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    that is only public debt. since every thing is privatized. the private debt matter. plus there is nothing practically to show. outdated tanks, out dated airdefence, fighter fleet that is 20 year old tech, no transport and airrefueller capability for sustain operations.

    paltry loan of $850m have no collateral.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-new-airport
    Turkish Airlines has talked with banks about $850 million loan
    Turkish Airlines, formally known as Turk Hava Yollari AO, doesn’t have enough collateral for a loan of that size because most of its assets are planes already pledged as collateral when they were acquired, two of the people said.
    the modern definition of rich country that can afford 5G fighter that exploit all its capability in operations (read Space) is very different.

  3. #363
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    One more myth debunked. Below is a listing of Private debt vs vs GDP of countries. See https://tradingeconomics.com/country...te-debt-to-gdp




    As you can see Turkey has one of the lowest private debt to percentage of GDP ratios amongst OECD member states.

    As you can see Sweden has one of the highest Private Debt to GDP ratios yet still produces the Saab Gripen.

    Pakistan is impoverished but it still managed to produce a 4 Gen fighter with China.

    There is a difference between generalisations and reality.

    I have said this before and I will repeat it here: Turkey will fly a 5th generation fighter before 2025 whether it rains hails or shines. President Erdogan's political survival depends on this single project.

    As for your example of Turkish Airlines- this is all propaganda. Turkish Airlines occupies nearly all of the terminals of the new Istanbul 3rd Airport. This airport with a passenger capacity of 150 million people dwarfs many European counterparts. In 10 years time Turkish Airlines will be one of the top 5 global airlines. President Erdogan's decision to charge 0 landing fees for airliners will make Istanbul Airport a global civilian aviation hub. It will compete with Emirates and Etihad at unimaginable magnitudes. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/keithfl.../#6d2a27c7461a
    More than half of Istanbul's 3rd airport is now complete: https://www.dailysabah.com/tourism/2...ls-new-airport
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th June 2017 at 09:30.

  4. #364
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    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/c...jected-gdp.php

    @Bayar..
    This is the statistics list of projected GDP Nominal or PPP for each nation in the world. You always talk on what Turkey projects but you can't answered logically on how turkey will finance those grand defense projects..at the same time want to finance grand economic infrastructure projects.

    Since the talk begin with your claim of USD 35 Bio grand TFX budget, I compared it with KFX/IFX budget that are realistically more modest even being financed by two countries that economically larger then Turkey (in Nominal)..
    No need to talk about PPP, since the tech need to be bought Internationally, thus GDP nominal that matter.

    So I suggest you posted realistically Turkish project that already being financed with realistic budget, and not some grand design that you your self can't explain logically where the financed coming from.
    I believe your post also being critises by Turkish members in this forum..as not based on real condition.
    Last edited by ananda; 14th June 2017 at 03:58.

  5. #365
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    You are asking me how a G20 member State will finance a combat aircraft project when they have already financed construction projects worth $400 billion? This same argument has been going on for the past 20 years since the AKP has come to power. According to Standard & Poors and other rating agencies Turkey was meant to go bust 15 years ago.

    One could equally ask how is Turkey funding the commissioning of 3 offshore military bases (Qatar, Somalia, Djibouti), 100 + F-35's, 1000 Altay tanks, 92 T129's, 12 Corvettes/Frigates, 2 LHD's, 6 new AIP submarines, Ballistic Missiles programs, Satellite programs etc. Well ill go by track record- so far the Turkish Government has made all payments on time and in accordance with the projected timetables. I am yet to see Western arms manufacturers taking Turkey to Commercial arbitration or Court over unpaid contracts!

    Secondly, the Turkish Ministry of Defence has already allocated the funds for the TF-X program and additionally signed the contracts with BAE systems. So isn't that argument a little defunct now?

    The answer is: they have been and are still continuing to fund large ticket items.

  6. #366
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    JSR I think you have no knowledge on Turkish matters....

    "no transport and airrefueller capability for sustain operations"
    ????









    FYI Turkish C-130's have ASELSAN Glass cockpits, mission computers and avionics.

    Last edited by Bayar; 14th June 2017 at 04:24.

  7. #367
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    Bayar

    wil Turkey make a stealth bomber. They could really use one due to all the land threats across its borders

    secondly and more importantly

    will they make a stealth tanker aircraft. You can make all the fighter jets you want, but tanker planes are super vulnerable due to its high rcs, and if the enemy shoots down the tanker planes, your fighters will become too short ranged
    so Turkey must be smart enough to consider designing a stealth tanker jet

    I think their economy is large enough to make both.

  8. #368
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    Nah, they don't need a bomber.. they'll get 100+ F-35s

    Given their weapons program & plans for UAI, I would not be surprised if they did not come up with an SDB class weapon.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  9. #369
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    SpudmanWP, Tubitak-Sage already produces a vast array of indigenous precision strike weapons.

    Tubitak Wing Assisted Guidance Kit - See http://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/en/ur...idance-kit-kgk


    Bunker Buster NEB (Comes with Wing kits for precision strike)- See http://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/en/ur...rator-bomb-neb


    Precision Guidance Kit- See http://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/en/ur...idance-kit-hgk


  10. #370
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    Y-20 Bacon- I don't think Turkey currently has the capability to produce a stealthy tanker or transport aircraft.

    However, Turkey currently has two projects which will see it producing utility aircraft:

    (1) The TRJET Joint-Venture between Sierra Nevada Corporation of the US and Turkish Aerospace Industries: TRJ-328 and TRJ-628
    See http://www.trjet.com

    (2) The Turkish Aerospace Industries partnership with Antanov:
    See http://www.uawire.org/news/ukraine-a...ntonov-designs

    Both these partnerships will produce a Jet and Turbo-prop powered Utility aircraft. These aircraft can be configured for airlift, AWA&C, tanker and coastal patrol roles.





    Furthermore, does one really need a stealthy tanker or transport aircraft when there is Airborne Stand-off Jammer aircraft which create pockets of "safe airspace"?

    As for Turkey producing a stealth bomber- I don't believe Turkey will opt for a stealth bomber program. However, they may order more F-35's or licence produce a Russian 5th Generation Air to Ground combat aircraft.

    In light of the crisis in the Gulf and in order for Turkey to protect its oil and gas interests in Qatar and Azerbaijan Turkey will almost certainly now invest heavily in new aerial platforms to maintain quantitative and qualitative advantage in the region. This is especially the case since ties with Saudi Arabia are deteriorating. Turkey will want something to counter any potential threats from Saudi F-15's.
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th June 2017 at 09:45.

  11. #371
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    Bayar
    JSR I think you have no knowledge on Turkish matters.
    i have plenty of knowledge. I said Turkey has no capability of sustain operations for transport and refuelling. the word sustain means continous war suppport at distance place.
    i wont respond to your economics as what you wrote is a joke.


    In light of the crisis in the Gulf and in order for Turkey to protect its oil and gas interests in Qatar and Azerbaijan Turkey will almost certainly now invest heavily in new aerial platforms to maintain quantitative and qualitative advantage in the region. This is especially the case since ties with Saudi Arabia are deteriorating. Turkey will want something to counter any potential threats from Saudi F-15's.
    the crises in Gulf today. not 20 years into the future. Saudis have EF. plane much faster and higher altitude than your F-16. Saudis have modern airdefence that can put air embargo on Qatar 24/7 just from the border.

  12. #372
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    Care to elaborate on what you mean by "sustain continuous war suppport at distance place"?

    What distances are you talking about?
    And how do you say Turkey cannot sustain war support at these distances.

    Turkey has no intentions of going across the globe and invading anyone. But it has more than the capability to project power in its own region due to bases in Cyprus, Somalia, Qatar and Djibouti: http://awdnews.com/top-news/erdogan-...ican-countries

    Turkey also has Tanker aircraft and F-16's with CFT's.
    Last edited by Bayar; 14th June 2017 at 15:11.

  13. #373
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    I think that Turkey is so stronk that they should just forget purchasing the f-35 altogether. It would be very beneficial for all parties involved.

  14. #374
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    White_lightning, unfortunately the policy makers in Ankara have decided to act as a bridge between East and West. They now want to be at an equi-distance between East and West. Thus, Turkey will purchase arms from both Russia and China on the one hand and US and Europe on the other hand.

    Turkey will not withdraw from the JSF (F-35) program in its entirety as it would not want to send NATO the signal that it will abandon its role in that organisation. However, it may reduce its F-35 orders or not purchase anymore than initially planned. We will see in the foreseeable future Ankara diversify its relationship with global arms producers. The S-400 with ToT will be one manifestation of this change in policy.

    Turkey's priority at the moment is to increase its indigenous design and production of precision strike weapons and sub-systems development. Once it achieves this it will seek foreign technology partners to assist in bringing all this sub-system technologies together into complete platforms. This is the case with the TF-X, Altay, T129, Tf-2000 etc.

  15. #375
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    Turkey has no intentions of going across the globe and invading anyone. But it has more than the capability to project power in its own region due to bases in Cyprus, Somalia, Qatar and Djibouti: http://awdnews.com/top-news/erdogan-...ican-countries

    Thats the problem Turkey cant sustain operations. you dont even have functioning airbase in Somalia or Qatar with proper airdefence and command & control
    cyprus is next door. Turkish airforce has very poor sortie generation. always short on bombs. This A400 or C130 too short range and slow to bypass hostile airspace.

    White_lightning, unfortunately the policy makers in Ankara have decided to act as a bridge between East and West.
    how can Turkey can become a bridge?. Syria can be bridge as Syrian ports can be used by Irak/Iran to connect to Mediterranean. Syria has vast desert that Russian advanced technology will enable it for self sustain oil/Gas.

  16. #376
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    Turkish airforce has very poor sortie generation. always short on bombs.
    Once again you prove that you have very little knowledge on the Turkish Air Forces.

    You are claiming that a locally supplied armed force is short on bombs? I just listed above the different precision strike weapons the Turks produce.

    This is just from one Turkish company:

    Last edited by Bayar; 15th June 2017 at 02:33.

  17. #377
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    Roketsan tests new precision strike Short Range ballistic Missile.


  18. #378
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    Aselsan unveils new conceptual versions for it Tufan Railgun technology demonstrator.


  19. #379
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    Once again you prove that you have very little knowledge on the Turkish Air Forces.

    You are claiming that a locally supplied armed force is short on bombs? I just listed above the different precision strike weapons the Turks produce.
    The availability for purchase of a wide variety of bombs does not automatically produce a large air force stock of bombs.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  20. #380
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    ASELSAN develops High-Power-Electromagnetics bomlets for use against enemy electronic systems.

    The ASELSAN EJDERHA Sarfedilebilir Yüksek Gerilim Bombası (EMP)


  21. #381
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    The TAI Anka is at Paris Air Show 2017 and is getting alot of attention.

    SATCOM + SAR + FLIR/Laser Designator + 4 x Fire & Forget Missiles + greater than 26 hours endurance



  22. #382
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    PARIS: TAI celebrates as Hurkus makes Le Bourget debut
    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...et-deb-438441/

    19 JUNE, 2017 SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM BY: CRAIG HOYLE PARIS

    Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) officials packed the balcony of the company's chalet to witness the first Paris display conducted with its Hurkus turboprop trainer on the opening day of the show.

    The indigenous type is making its first international appearance, after TAI sent a pair of A-model aircraft to Le Bourget.

    Özcan Ertem, head of TAI's aircraft group, says the first three of an initial 15 Hurkus B basic trainers are now in final assembly for the Turkish air force, with the lead production example to make its debut flight in November. A further five aircraft are now in the manufacturing process, he adds, with production set to hit two a month.

    "All deliveries will be made in 2018," he says, and the first will be handed over next June. The Turkish air force also has an option on a further 40 examples, he notes.

    TAI secured Turkish civilian and European Aviation Safety Authority certification for the Hurkus A last July. The Turkish air force is acquiring B-model examples featuring an advanced cockpit supplied by Aselsan, with the update to be the subject of a supplemental type certificate from the Turkish government.

    One Hurkus is taking part in the flying display, while the other is in TAI's static display representative of a future C-model light-attack variant. The Turkish land forces command and Gendarmerie plan to acquire 12 and six examples, respectively, with the same number of options each.

    Ertem expects deliveries of the Hurkus C to commence in 2019, and notes that the programme's 16th production aircraft should be the first armed example of the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6-powered design to roll off the line.

    TAI sees clear export potential for the Hurkus, although it is not naming prospective customers. "There are a few countries looking for the Turkish air force to induct the type and start flying," before advancing their interest in the type, Ertem says.
    Looks like the Hurkus has export customers

  23. #383
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    Finally, an English language article on T-FX from a known source:

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ighter-438486/

    There is no mention of the project being for RAF use, but the claim is made that both governments are backing the team generously.

  24. #384
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    noting that he would also like to see the type in UK service.
    mrmalaya, you have missed the last sentence in that article. It shows that this has been discussed with the Brits.

  25. #385
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    Bayar, the sentence in question:

    "While the programme is in its early days, Cavcar says the partners have gained strong financial and political support from Turkey and the UK. "We are feeling the very strong support of both governments behind us," he adds, noting that he would also like to see the type in UK service.". (- Mustafa Cavcar, TAI's executive vice-president for TF-X)

    That only says that he would like to see it in UK service, it means nothing in terms of RAF desire to procure the jet.

    But, I would say that if BAE feel the same support from UK Gov, then they may feel more inclined to make allowance for possible RAF requirements in the design of the aircraft. As I mentioned earlier in the forum, if the UK Labour party get elected (in their current form) into government in the near future, then defence spending will come into question across the board, and the thought of the UK putting business before "morals" (given their view of the Erdogan approach to government) will become politically abhorrent.
    Last edited by mrmalaya; 20th June 2017 at 16:46.

  26. #386
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    mrmalaya,

    With regards to the BAE partnership with TAI and the Labour party coming to power I would like to state the following:

    The United Kingdom and Turkey have entered into a Defence Partnership Treaty independent of NATO;

    (The "Agreement between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the Republic of Turkey on Military Cooperation, London, 23 November 2011"); See Text of Agreement here https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...36067/8344.pdf

    This agreement paved the way for a Anglo-Turkish Defence Partnership at all levels independent of NATO and without NATO approvals.

    TAI subsequently entered into a contract with BAE Systems for the TF-X program. Turkey has also made the initial payment to BAE systems.

    The British Government honours its agreements. BAE Systems also honours its agreements.

    Furthermore, in light of the European Court of Human Rights decision supporting President Erdogan in respect of the mass detentions post-coup the British Government will have no problems with working with President Erdogan.
    Last edited by Bayar; 20th June 2017 at 17:18.

  27. #387
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    Eurojet offer ITAR-free turbo-fan engine technology to Turkey for TF-X program. The battle between Rolls-Royce, EuroJet, GE and Russia is on for the TF-X Engine. Since all companies are offering full-technology transfer and an ITAR-free turbo-fan engine it seems like it will boil down to price and performance.

    Advertorial: EUROJET – 2017 Could be a Record Year
    http://www.milscint.com/en/advertori...-a-record-year
    21 Haziran 2017
    bea _MMP5683 - C - EUROJET Turbo GmbH_410

    For the second time running, EUROJET Turbo GmbH (EUROJET) will be exhibiting a full scale EJ200 cutaway production engine at this year’s IDEF. Pictured here on the stand in 2015, the engine drew plenty of attention from visitors, many keen to see the interior workings in operation.

    EUROJET looks forward to a positive 2017 as it could prove to be a fruitful one with the promised engine selection for the TF-X campaign set to take place. Competition to supply the engine is a tight race but EUROJET believes the EJ200 engine holds the key to air-to-air capability, offering as it does a holy trinity of speed, reliability and power. The EJ200 offers an immediately available solution for the first phase of the TF-X Programme and EUROJET is convinced that it is not only a perfect fit for the TF-X programme, it is also the lowest risk choice.

    Speaking to Clemens Linden, CEO of EUROJET, it is obvious that the company has done its homework for the coming year. “We have been very busy working on several growth options of the EJ200 and we have been able to put forward an attractive and competitive offer based on the results of these studies”, he affirmed. “This includes technology collaboration that is specifically designed to address specific fields of interest regarding Turkish capability. Areas of cooperation with the dedicated industry in Turkey include development of a range of growth engine solutions as well as engine control software and hardware. Particular modifications to achieve an ITAR-free engine are also on offer. EUROJET is in the position to offer considerable support in achieving TF-X certification and qualification.”

    “Turkey is a significant market for us and we will do everything we can to assist Turkish progress including sponsorship of the Turkish Advanced Manufacturing Technology which is one way of achieving knowledge transfer into supply chains, design and build in a number of major industrial projects covering areas initially in aerospace and nuclear. The expertise will bring high-value jobs, skills and capabilities to spur Turkey’s economic growth and enhance its global reputation”, says Mr Linden.

    Returning to TF-X, Mr. Linden concluded, “EUROJET is offering Turkey a flexible solution that incorporates a proven, fail-safe product, highest level of technology collaboration, a full indigenization concept, a joint qualification approach for the prototype phase, an intelligent maintenance philosophy for in-service operations and all this with a selection of options available to suit the aircraft development. When you add to this the fact that there is also the opportunity to incorporate the engine that Turkey produces into other platforms, then it really is the engine of choice for the TF-X.”


    To reach the original advertorial as it was published in our magazine:

    http://www.milscint.com/en/files/201...EUROJET-en.pdf

  28. #388
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    How can GE offer an ITAR-free engine?
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  29. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    How can GE offer an ITAR-free engine?
    Not using specific hot and cold compressor technology, or cooling tech, developed for the F119, F135, F414, or YF120 (and parts of other engines that have been updated with this tech).

    The new ITAR has modified engine restrictions.

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    @Andraxxus


    TBH, This "whether Turkey produces F-110 or not" discussion is a moot thing..

    Does Turkey produce whole F-110 engine? No, it doesn't. Trying to twist it with "theories" or what might happen does not change the fact not all parts of an F-110 engine is produced in Turkey, but some are still imported as kits.

    This in itself is completely different question than "CAN Turkey produce an entire F-110 domestically if it wanted?"

    Answer is yes, quite probably... The sole purpose and founding mission of TEI is to power Turkish F-16s domestically if WW3 erupted. Because it was felt logistics of continuously transferring new/refurbished engines from US and sending damaged/used up engines back to US would be impossible and TuAF would be grounded.

    TEI was founded and started component manufacturing of F-110s two years earlier than the first F-16 was even delivered (let alone got operational). By the time first F-16 was operational with TuAF, TEI was capable of overhauling the F-110 engines COMPLETELY independent from outside support. Overhauling do include major components like turbines and compressors, and that was late 1980s...

    Today I know even FADEC is produced domestically for F-110 (by Savronik), and I don't imagine any component that would be beyond production capability of Eskişehir Aviation Cluster in general.

    Still, Turkey doesn't produce an F-110 from scratch. That is not because its beyond Turkey's abilities but because there is neither the need nor the demand from military. TuAF F-16s are aging and airframe fatigue (both due to real combat missions with heavy payloads at the east and almost daily mock dogfights with Greeks at the west) and remaining airframe life time is much more of a concern than producing fully domestic parts for the F-110 engines which are laying around in abundance. Excluding combat damage, and considering TEI can overhaul F-110s since the beginning, F-110 engines Turkey has will likely to outlive the F-16s they are powering.

    Its like questioning whether Turkey can produce a new aircooled diesel engine for its M-60A3s.. Yes it can, it certainly has the ability, but it will never do that. It will use whatever tanks with whatever engines and move on to Altay.. Same goes for aircraft industry, and there is nothing wrong with that..
    This view of yours is strongly misleading your own view, especially in the more adverse form of Bayar. I have no interest to downplay Turkish accomplishments, its making big steps and Bayars posts update us on that.

    However, here you are basically saying that Turkey has a capability which many regard as the highest of aerospace technological capability in general.

    Turkey could neither build the F110 if it chose to do so nor a reliable heavy diesel engine that could power a M60. In the same way China could not have copied a useful AL-31 in the 2000's and likely not even by now (China produced heavy liquid rocket engines).

    Quite possible that 80% of overhaul replacement parts are produced in Turkey. Possible that 20% of the rest of the engine parts are also produced in Turkey, such as the FADEC you mentioned. Possible that 5% of critical parts, maybe some of the hot end of the core are also produced in Turkey. Well possible that all these parts produced by Turkey are exported to America (i.e Americans outsources them to Turkey).

    That's more or less about it.

    We talk about the piece of technology made up by several tens of thousands of parts that needs to work in very harsh conditions for many hundreds of hours without one of those components failing.

    If Americans would pull out and Turkey chose to build a F110 copy on its own, it would need to reverse engineer the remaining parts and due to the critical ones, until there is a working F110 copy, the project would take about two decades and make Turkey the 6th or 7th country in the world able to produce such a turbofan if China and another country joins the club (we could basically say China has already by now). I hope both of you realize the dimensions involved here, its not about Turkeys poor capabilities, but you are demanding something very, very exclusive and monumental.

    The same goes for the F-16 production, albeit with higher percentages. For both, already the local assembly is an indicator of a good aerospace technology. But believing Turkey has got a capability to really produce those two in foreseeable future paints a completely wrong picture about real capabilities for both of you.

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