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Thread: Malaysian B.777 MH One Seven downed over Ukraine.

  1. #1
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    Malaysian B.777 MH One Seven downed over Ukraine.

    From the BBC, all that is known so far.

    AMS - KUL, 229 passengers, 15 crew.
    Last edited by Newforest; 17th July 2014 at 15:25.
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  2. #2
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    Oh no


    Does Russian Inspired Rebels

    .
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  3. #3
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    Just heard the news from a friend... if confirmed this is devastating, not just for the families of the dead, but for Malaysian Airlines.
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    Apparently taken down by a SAM.

    Why is the Ukraine, a war zone where a Su25 was shot down yesterday, still open to commercial overflights?

  5. #5
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    Gotta love news programmes - drag out "experts" to fluff out their "breaking news" pieces.
    Reports of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 shot down over Eastern Ukraine - get some retired army bod to speak about how he thinks it was 'probably' done by trigger happy Ukrainian air defence....

    Oh well, no need to investigate it any further...
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  6. #6
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    Reported that the 'rebels 'have 'Bok' surface to air missiles capable of bringing this plane down.
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    Pretty chilling... "Should it dissappear, this is what it looks like"... Final words from a Dutch passenger.
    http://m.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/tec...oto-voor-crash
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  8. #8
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    Very sad news. RIP all passengers & crew. Apparently MH17 was flying c. 32,000ft so out of range of rebel MANPADs. This implies that if it was shot down by a SAM, a sophisticated, radar-guided SAM system.
    There have been unconfirmed reports that the Russians had recently equipped thier proxies in Eastern Ukraine with Sa-11 Buk SAMs, capable of this atrocity.
    As Theodore Roosevelt said:
    "Talk softly, but carry a big stick"

  9. #9
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    The Russian rebel leader gloated on twitter they shot down a plane believing it was a Ukrainian air force Antonov 26. His tweet has been deleted but someone made a screenshot.

    https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/s...212480/photo/1

    I am willing to bet that the black boxes have disappeared and won't be found. Considering the height the Malaysian plane was flying at, 33k foot, it must have been shot down by some serious piece of military hardware. A small MANPAD won't reach high enough. The black market won't provide that stuff, so Russia probably has some explaining to do.

    I would not mind if our government sent a few marines there to drag Strelkov's **** to the international tribunal in The Hague.

    BTW, be cautious looking for images of the crash. There are plenty of them, and they are not shy showing bodies. On Russian tv they are even showing Dutch and Malay passports, opening the photo page of several of them.
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    The separatists have supposedly captured Buk from UA depots.
    Of course the Ukrainians also have multiple Buk and S-300 units capable of this shootdown, not to mention interceptors.

    RIP, terrible.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenthije View Post
    The Russian rebel leader gloated on twitter they shot down a plane believing it was a Ukrainian air force Antonov 26. His tweet has been deleted but someone made a screenshot.

    https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/s...212480/photo/1

    I am willing to bet that the black boxes have disappeared and won't be found. Considering the height the Malaysian plane was flying at, 33k foot, it must have been shot down by some serious piece of military hardware. A small MANPAD won't reach high enough. The black market won't provide that stuff, so Russia probably has some explaining to do.

    I would not mind if our government sent a few marines there to drag Strelkov's **** to the international tribunal in The Hague.

    BTW, be cautious looking for images of the crash. There are plenty of them, and they are not shy showing bodies. On Russian tv they are even showing Dutch and Malay passports, opening the photo page of several of them.
    YEah yeah sure. Blame Strelkov, not the people bombing him. Typical kneejerk crap all over the web.

    We all know if this fell in Ukranian territory the investigation would be 100% bias proof.
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  12. #12
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    Whoever shot it down must be brought to justice. This is indiscriminate mass murder.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 27vet View Post
    Whoever shot it down must be brought to justice. This is indiscriminate mass murder.
    Do you really think whoever did it, did so on purpose?

    A tragic accident is far likelier, barring a technical fault.
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    Yes, whoever did it should have been aware that civilian air traffic was overflying that airspace. A good friend of mine was shot down over Ethiopia in a similar fashion. No attempt to contact the aircraft to confirm the identity and intention. I personally have been fired on indiscriminately by trigger happy rebels while operating an airliner at a civilian airport.
    Last edited by 27vet; 18th July 2014 at 05:50.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 27vet View Post
    Whoever shot it down must be brought to justice. This is indiscriminate mass murder.
    Why this plane was flying over that heavily disputed region of Ukr is the first question any inquiry have to answer.

    Who gave the authorization? Who did not put a ban for such commercial overflight? What went wrong BEFORE the sh** hit the fan?

    Let's sort the things in the right order.


    What a sad story. What a plea for the Malaysian ppl.

  16. #16
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    Yes in the right order and with FACTS as they become available.

  17. #17
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    Trigger happy Russians.

  18. #18
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    IATA on #MH17: "Based on the information currently available...airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions."
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 27vet View Post
    IATA on #MH17: "Based on the information currently available...airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions."
    yes. On the BBC:

    The head of the Russian Air Traffic Controllers' Union, Sergei Kovalyov, told BBC Russian that the airspace over eastern Ukraine had remained open during the conflict because the planes previously shot down had tended to be helicopters or low-flying fast jets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    Why this plane was flying over that heavily disputed region of Ukr is the first question any inquiry have to answer.

    Who gave the authorization? Who did not put a ban for such commercial overflight? What went wrong BEFORE the sh** hit the fan?

    Let's sort the things in the right order.


    What a sad story. What a plea for the Malaysian ppl.
    There was NO airspace restrictions over Ukraine or Russia... If there was it wouldnt be flying there.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-1...kraine/5606004

    295 people killed in act of murder
    We are 100% SNAFU

  21. #21
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    https://www.eurocontrol.int/news/mh-17-ukraine

    According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar. This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying.

    Since the crash, the Ukrainian authorities have informed EUROCONTROL of the closure of routes from the ground to unlimited in Eastern Ukraine (Dnipropetrovsk Flight Information Region). All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected by EUROCONTROL. The routes will remain closed until further notice.
    A terrible incident. I wasn't aware of the status of the airspace or that commercial operators were still flying through there. I hope the facts can be brought to the table.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 27vet View Post
    Whoever shot it down must be brought to justice. This is indiscriminate mass murder.
    Not to belittle what has happened... but approximately the same number of people have been killed in Gaza in the last 10 days.

    Or, over 100,000 have died in Syria.


    Lets not go hyperbole just because its something that may be relevant to you rather than restricted to definitely happening to only some other poor bstart in some distant country.

  23. #23
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    Indeed. Until it is irrevocably clear that it was a planned aggressive act and not an error mistaking the aircraft for a military target such statements contribute little to the debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    Do you really think whoever did it, did so on purpose?
    The design of these weapons makes an accidental firing so near impossible as to be unlikely, and you don't fire a SAM missile for giggles and then say 'sorry!'

    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    A tragic accident is far likelier, barring a technical fault.
    What sort of tragic accident, like someone thinking that they are firing at a military aircraft when in fact it is a civilian airliner? That 'sort' of accident?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amiga500 View Post
    Not to belittle what has happened... but approximately the same number of people have been killed in Gaza in the last 10 days.

    Or, over 100,000 have died in Syria.
    Not trying to belittle them but...the people in Gaza and Syria are in internationally recognised conflict zones: you might not be happy about it but if you are there you know there is an element of danger. The people on this airliner, on the other hand, were probably unaware that they were flying over a war zone - that is a concern for the authorities to answer to - and the (hopefully) last thing on their minds was that they could be the target for trigger-happy bozo with a SAM system at his disposal.

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    From Avherald :

    On Jul 18th 2014 the USA announced, that the missile has been launched inside the borders of the Ukraine.
    Also, the separatists have the flight recorders and want to send them to Moscow.
    Last edited by 27vet; 18th July 2014 at 14:31.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

  27. #27
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    Live on WSJ

    Obama says flatly #MH17 shot down by a missile fired from territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

  28. #28
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    Can Moscow access them?

    Can Moscow be trusted with the information if they can?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Can Moscow access them?

    Can Moscow be trusted with the information if they can?
    @Snafu, just off of Avherald

    On Jul 18th 2014 Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK), responsible for investigation of aviation accidents, announced that they believe in the circumstances of the crash of MH-17 the investigation should be carried out under the supervision of the ICAO. The blackboxes will therefore be handed over to the ICAO for investigation.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24455&dateline=137163  6822Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 27vet View Post
    @Snafu, just off of Avherald
    Good.

    Last thing we need is this feeding the fire thats burning already over and in Ukraine.

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