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Thread: Interesting News Snippets

  1. #1141
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    I wouldn't fault much of that. I'm not too Wilde about Oscar but, he probably got it right !

  2. #1142
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    Bruce, you lost me there. How does making tuition free favour the better off in society?

    I think you'll find a Telegraph survey said that Telegraph readers said they would be less likely to vote Labour (!) after reading the Telegraph's version of a draft document. This is not the same as public opinion.

    I read it - it's a piece of propaganda. CapX is edited by Robert Colvile, former head of comment at the Telegraph. Although it claims to be a straight news site, it is actually owned by the 'Centre for Policy Studies', an equally false-colours organisation founded by 'Baroness' Thatcher and Sir Keith Joseph. No, I am not being an arm-waving tinfoil hatter - look it up if you don't believe me!

    Although the writer suggested they should, my eyes did not glaze over when reading the DRAFT manifesto ideas.

    Not only does it seek to misguide, it also get a bit nasty in tone - much like one of the contributors here who talks off 'crushing' and 'murdering' those with left wing tendencies, this asks us to give 'the strongest possible thumping' to people who dare suggest these things.

    I read it, and now I need a shower.
    Last edited by Beermat; 12th May 2017 at 15:31.
    www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
    It's all good. Probably.

  3. #1143
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Green
    I wouldn't fault much of that. I'm not too Wilde about Oscar but, he probably got it right !
    I don't recall Halal abattoirs cropping up in The Picture of Dorian Gray, but I did skip a few pages towards the middle where Gray 'experiments with every vice', so perhaps it was somewhere in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beermat
    I read it - it's a piece of propaganda. CapX is edited by Robert Colvile, former head of comment at the Telegraph. Although it claims to be a straight news site, it is actually owned by the 'Centre for Policy Studies', an equally false-colours organisation founded by 'Baroness' Thatcher and Sir Keith Joseph. No, I am not being an arm-waving tinfoil hatter - look it up if you don't believe me!
    I thought we'd hit a new low when Guido Fawkes' dreadful webpage was cited on here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beermat
    How does making tuition free favour the better off in society?
    That stumped me as well. I read an article a long time ago that suggested that one needed to 'woodshed' for 10,000 hours or so to become good at something. The thinking was that children from more affluent areas typically excel musically, academically or at sport because they had calmer home lives with fewer adult responsibilities (getting a younger sibling dressed for school because the parents are AWOL for example). I suppose the notion is possibly that the better off are more likely to be heading to university anyway, and any lingering barriers (which probably wouldn't arise from not being able to cough up tuition fees) are removed.

    I'm torn on the issue of tuition fees. The matter could potentially quietly resolve itself if we reversed the Blairite policy of allowing vast numbers of school leavers to gain degrees. It hasn't really helped much, beyond a piece of paper, as I know a lot of graduates doing fairly menial jobs because their identikit CVs don't gain them any real traction in the job market. Ironically it is the graduates from affluent backgrounds, who were able to volunteer in their chosen field during holidays or ****** off and build schools in Africa, who probably have the slightly richer range of experiences on their CV when they graduate. However I'm not sure how you can reverse this policy easily. Revert red brick universities back to Polytechnics? How would you begin a task like that?

    Either way, in the grand scheme of things the issue of large student loans is an issue for the loan companies and not the graduates. If half the population aged 21 to 25 owe £40k or whatever, and they are paying that off with minimal interest from their £18k salary working in retail, then that isn't really their problem.

  4. #1144
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    Look, it's simple.

    At present, there is a low percentage of kids who receive free school meals, and according to their circumstance. For all others, their parents pay for them.

    If you apply FSM across the board, then those who already receive them gain nothing. Those who don't need it gain monetarily.

    Then extrapolate to tuition fees.


    Bruce

  5. #1145
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    But Bruce, that's not analogous, is it? At the moment tuition fees are not means tested like fsm are. If you can't afford them you don't get them free - this 'nightmare scenario' (to a tory) has been avoided by making them a loan available to all, but only immediately payable back by the children of rich parents.

    Then there's the point that the poor can (and do) opt out of higher ed for themselves or their kids for financial reasons - it is harder to opt out of your children eating food. One is a policy the tories might hope to sustain, the other might be a problem even with the telegraph's backing.

    Unless I missed a policy change in either area (It's been a while since I was around higher ed) then the two are not the same, and extrapolating one to argue the other is logically false.

    Oh dear. I hope I am not giving central office ideas. I can see it now - school meal loans for all - payable when you grow up..

    Taxing future generations, while neatly avoiding anything progressive. Trebles all round!
    Last edited by Beermat; 12th May 2017 at 22:47.

  6. #1146
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    But it is, though I agree it isn't quite the same thing.

    The well off can afford to pay tuition fees without a loan. Only the less well off end up with a loan. So, by making it free for all, the well off, who can afford it anyway, do better from the deal. In effect, its reverse taxation.

    I know that means testing makes many people uncomfortable, and it isn't perfect, but it seems to be a bit fairer to me.

  7. #1147
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    Agree it's reverse taxation, and yes, means testing might be a good idea instead. Along with proper honest academic selection of those who would benefit from a university education, and those who would benefit from time at a poly, and those who really should just go out and get a job not a gap-three-years on daddy's money.. it would fix a lot of the mess.

    My hazy memory is telling me something. Oh yes. Those dark days of the seventies..

  8. #1148
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    More like the 80's. I was one of those who decided to just go and get a job after I failed all my A levels. I probably shouldn't have in retrospect, but it is what it is. The current idiom means people are selected based on academic prowess, and rarely on the ability to actually do a job.

  9. #1149
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    Yeah, I was being economical with the truth, my memories of the seventies are only hazy because I was between one and eleven years old at the time.

    I would not have gone to university in the current situation, as I was raised not to get into debt. Of course, real life has kicked that out of me. When I went there was a grant, but already the signs were there of the decline and fall of education. Part of the student union became an 'entreprenurial ideas w*nk zone' or something even then (no one remembers asking for one) and now the logical conclusion has happened. The sign on the door no longer says 'University of Liverpool Guild of Students'. It now says 'Starbucks'.
    Last edited by Beermat; 13th May 2017 at 08:58.

  10. #1150
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    Better that than 'Gulag'.

  11. #1151
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    As in archipelago? Yes, I got the (oddly threatening) anti-intellectual reference thanks to an education paid for by the state. Bet you hate that.
    Last edited by Beermat; 14th May 2017 at 18:01.

  12. #1152
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    Actually, I do not. I just wish that when you write, you would spend more time on construction so that the intellectually challenged, such as myself, don't have to dig so deeply for your message !

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